Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.

[shaneken50]

We build staircases and are hauling the Kapex in and out of the truck all of the time. What I like about it is it's lite and stays true to accuracy. The best saw to date for holding up for being moved around a lot. Yes it is worth the money for what we use it for and Yes the motor is a major flaw. It has been back to the repair shop four times in three years all for the motor. One time the motor started started to smoke, two times no power to cut though a 1x, one time it came back even with lack of power after a few cuts and died. They gave me a new saw after that and  that one went back for motor problems.
  I bought through a dealership, they have been great about sending it back and were the ones that said give him a new saw. The Road Show came to town and I told them about the problem, the guy standing next to me said he had the same problem. The Road Shoe rep said their working on it, to what degree is anyone's guess. We love the saw but it has a MAJOR motor problem.

 

[yetihunter]

Hmmm, if the "armature" keeps blowing up on these saws; working out in the sub zero arctic winter would probably be
the best thing for it.  [big grin]

 

[peter halle]

With the warmer winters and summers I've had since 2010 mine is still cooking (running correctly) right along.

Peter

 

[yetihunter]

My knees are what are getting warmer. Phantom soreness flashbacks.
I finally watched the video and noticed all of the TREX.
It was probably a totally different product then (back when it would get little dots everywhere from mold), but anyway, memories of carrying 20 feet of springy fun-times, driving me into the ground with each footstep.    [scared]

 

[JFelchlin]

I wanted to (almost did) buy the Kapex and it’s assorted accessories.
Having read all of the FOGer reviews about problems -
About Kapex tool failures -
And ongoing issues with Festool Service...
Led me to keep using my faithfull/excellent-
BOSCH 5412 12” Compound Miter saw.

After having major issues with a purchase -
Festool XL700 Domino (couldn’t be aligned)...
It’ll be a hot January day in Colorado...
Before I buy another Festool product.
Things have to change... Dramatically.
Regrettably,
Joe

 

[houtslager]

WOW , looks like my kapex is / was not the only lemon . I bought my first kapex a month or 2 after being released in the Netherlands. What grabbed my Euro's was the stated accuracy and of course the dust collection.
Well I needed to make over 400 dubbel verstek { double mitre ??? } joints in some thin 4mm red pine, only 4 inches in length so not to big a cut.
After the first 20, it was no longer cutting accurately    [eek]
Took it directly back to TTS in Mijdrecht , explained the problem again  ??? to their tech guy. After 2 hours of trying to "tune "the tool and getting the lasers to work correctly -
He and I gave , only to be told be said techie - "It's a Monday morning Machine "  [eek] [mad]
SO, was sent a new machine direct from Germany. Despite being told it was all ok , it never met the sales talk, never cutting the double angles 100% accurately, since then , now coming up to 6 years iirc , it has had 2 services , 1 in the UK and 1 in France. It's now having a 4th service as on the 3rd , here in the Netherlands, they did not dail the lasers in properly, and after the first cut after return the lower internal dust shroud broke, making the toop unusable  [mad] [mad]

My advice - DON"T BUY A KAPEX, next mitre saw purchase will be the BOSCH 12"one or DeWalt as these have larger capacity, just as accurate and 1/3rd cheaper.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[peter halle]

WOW , looks like my kapex is / was not the only lemon . I bought my first kapex a month or 2 after being released in the Netherlands. What grabbed my Euro's was the stated accuracy and of course the dust collection.
Well I needed to make over 400 dubbel verstek { double mitre ??? } joints in some thin 4mm red pine, only 4 inches in length so not to big a cut.
After the first 20, it was no longer cutting accurately    [eek]
Took it directly back to TTS in Mijdrecht , explained the problem again  ??? to their tech guy. After 2 hours of trying to "tune "the tool and getting the lasers to work correctly -
He and I gave , only to be told be said techie - "It's a Monday morning Machine "  [eek] [mad]
SO, was sent a new machine direct from Germany. Despite being told it was all ok , it never met the sales talk, never cutting the double angles 100% accurately, since then , now coming up to 6 years iirc , it has had 2 services , 1 in the UK and 1 in France. It's now having a 4th service as on the 3rd , here in the Netherlands, they did not dail the lasers in properly, and after the first cut after return the lower internal dust shroud broke, making the toop unusable  [mad] [mad]

My advice - DON"T BUY A KAPEX, next mitre saw purchase will be the BOSCH 12"one or DeWalt as these have larger capacity, just as accurate and 1/3rd cheaper.

Just my 2 cents worth

Sorry to hear about your dis satisfaction.  Admirable that you continued to use the saw for that length of time.  Most people would have given up.  If you are indeed looking at the 12" Bosch I would love to hear your opinions after you get it and use it for a month or two.

Peter

 

[ChuckM]

Admirable that you continued to use the saw for that length of time. 

Peter

6yrs? That admirable point is an understatement. I would have given up in 6 months or so in such circumstances as described by the OP.

 

[M williams]

Ohh dear..it’s gone again!!. Kapex motor burnout no 2 in under two years. Getting really fed up with this saw now

 

[andyraines]

I am currently raging!!
I have owned a Dewalt DW718 for over 10 years and it’s never missed a beat, it has slight blade wobble and I’ve replaced the motor bearings and bushes once. I decided to upgrade to the Kapex KS120 after seeing so many rave about them. When it arrived I must admit I fell in love straight away. Such an accurate saw and the dust extraction is second to none.
I’ve been using it lightly for 3 weeks now and today it decided not to work, it tries but the motor seems  jammed and it stinks?
I cannot believe I never read any of these threads on FOG before buying it, I feel so let down. The price for the saw is so expensive but I was willing to make the investment, I could have bought 3 new Dewalys for the same price as a Kapex with the UG Stand.

 

[Tinker]

I think you have 30 days from the date of purchase to take it back.

 

[Gregor]

I’ve been using it lightly for 3 weeks now and today

You're within the '30 days money back no questions asked', so you can simply return it for a full refund.

 

[peter halle]

Unfortunately I believe the poster is in a country where the return period is 15 days.

Peter

 

[MikeDVB]

I just picked up the TS 55 and the CT 36 and was looking at getting the Kapex to replace my Kobalt miter whose dust collection is atrocious...  I was directed to this thread and after reading this and doing a bit more research on my own - Festool has lost a $1,400+ sale here.

It seems to me that it really shouldn't be that hard for Festool to identify what is going wrong with these saws and to update a part/make a change to resolve it.

I do understand nothing lasts forever - and there will be outliers that fail much sooner, and that's what a warranty is for.  That said - there is no way I would spend $1,400+ for a saw that may or may not last more than a couple of years.

 

[brentasmith]

Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever

I bought my Kapex soon after they went on sale in the US. I had to get the miter adjuster fix that came out soon after the introduction.

My use ranges from very light to light by the standards of most people on this forum. I have had no issues with the saw like are being described here.

In defense of Festool, the percentage of motor failures appears to be very low. For example, if the failure rate is less than 1 per 1000, then it can be very difficult to pinpoint the cause.

After such a long time, they are now in a difficult position in a marketing and legal terms.

For marketing, it is tricky to make things right when doing so admits you have failures you do not understand. Hardly a great position for a premium tool company.

From a legal point of view, making it right for the customer could be viewed as admission of a problem that has been long known and ignored. That might put them in a position of being accused of knowingly selling defective tools. That would not be tolerated by any corporate legal team.

Festool's best hope is to discover a cause that can be recognized as unknowable in the general sense. If they could claim that, then the above issues can be avoided and customers can be dealt with in a fair manner.

 

[kevinculle]

Festool has had plenty of time to evaluate the Kapex motor failures.  Even if they are only occuring at 1,000 ppm (1 per thousand) there has been a steady drumbeat here of consistent failure posts for what, at least two years.  Imagine the failure resulted in injury to the operator rather than just a dead saw...I suspect there would have been both a fix and a retrofit kit for all saws in the field some time ago.  This failure presents the kind of risk to Festool's and the Kapex's reputation that Festool should take a belt and suspenders approach and substantially upgrade all of the parts and subsystems in the Kapex that are in the failure path.  I suspect instead they are continuing to build a failure prone tool while they figure out the minimum cost and disruption to their tooling and process revision that is likely to work.  Meanwhile every week or so another Kapex owner sees the smoke let out of his pride and joy SCMS...pity!

 

[semenza]

Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever

I bought my Kapex soon after they went on sale in the US. I had to get the miter adjuster fix that came out soon after the introduction.

My use ranges from very light to light by the standards of most people on this forum. I have had no issues with the saw like are being described here.

In defense of Festool, the percentage of motor failures appears to be very low. For example, if the failure rate is less than 1 per 1000, then it can be very difficult to pinpoint the cause.

After such a long time, they are now in a difficult position in a marketing and legal terms.

For marketing, it is tricky to make things right when doing so admits you have failures you do not understand. Hardly a great position for a premium tool company.

From a legal point of view, making it right for the customer could be viewed as admission of a problem that has been long known and ignored. That might put them in a position of being accused of knowingly selling defective tools. That would not be tolerated by any corporate legal team.

Festool's best hope is to discover a cause that can be recognized as unknowable in the general sense. If they could claim that, then the above issues can be avoided and customers can be dealt with in a fair manner.

Of course it is.  Especially since the failures cover a wide range of users and the terminology that people use  such as "light", "everyday", "heavy", "moderate", etc are all relative. And even if saws that get "light" usage don't fail, that is still useful info.

Seth

 

[deepcreek]

I must admit that the repeated threads on Kapex motor failure have affected me.

I've had my Kapex going on ten years and originally used it to trim out a house I built for my Mom.  It was Craftsman style with custom molding and block paneling so lots of work.

Now my Kapex lives a life of luxury in a shop environment for a few cuts here and there.  Definitely not every day and often not even weekly.

Yesterday, I had to make a couple hundred cuts for a large project.

With each start of the motor, I found myself worrying if this would be the cut where it died.

I know it's irrational but the perception is there.

Managing perception is as important as managing reality.

In my opinion, Festool's silence on the matter has hurt its reputation.

 

[tjbnwi]

One of mine let out the magic smoke yesterday (the one that's about 10 years old)--don't have time right now to replace the armature--went out and bought another one.

The saw(s) have made money from the first day I've owned them.

It's not the first brand miter saw I've had cook an armature, won't be the last.

Tom

 

[jimbo51]

"Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever."

My opinions are based on the experiences reported in this thread and on senior management behavior I witnessed working in two large companies. They are not based on my personal experience with the Kapex.

My opinions were about the challenges Festool is facing in dealing with this issue. Which of the challenges I mentioned relate to my level of saw usage?