Another New Product - CMS

[johnsonri]

Looks like a great product. I would buy it!! I fear the price though.

I think though, even if the price was outrageous, I'd fight the urge like crazy, but would probably buy it in the end.

Not many companies have that effect on me, but Festool does.

Rey

 

[thalvor]

FYI: http://www.mtmc.co.uk/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=13765&strPageHistory=cat

Tom

 

[wnagle]

From my understanding, it will probably only support the Routers here in the US.  I don't think they are going to be bringing all of the options here.

 

[johnsonri]

From my understanding, it will probably only support the Routers here in the US.  I don't think they are going to be bringing all of the options here.

That figures. The TS55 and jigsaw capabilities are what I'd be most interested in...here in the US. I'm thinking...scroll saw on steroids, or bandsaw without the band for interior cuts.

 

[Brice Burrell]

It is hard to judge the US price based upon European prices.  All Festool is considerably cheaper in the US (currently) than anywhere else.  This is because the US is seen as a throw-away tool market (they are right about that) and to break into this market Festool had to lower their prices till it hurt.  US dealers cannot sell and ship outside of the US without risk of losing their distributorship. 

No, the European pricing will likely be close to what it will sell for here in the US. The prices on new products have been closer to what the rest of the world is paying. I suspect our days of paying less for Festool products are numbered. 

 

[Gene Howerton]

I would buy it if it had the saw and jigsaw attachments.  My shop is a one car garage and now mostly Festool.  The inserts would help me ave space, which is a premium in my shop setup.

 

[Al]

I have been very interested in the CMS for a long time but I doubt that I would purchase it if it only supported a router in North America.  If they also provided TS 75 support in North America it is very likely that I would buy it.

How much would I pay?  I think about $700 US for the base, $300 US for the router insert, and about $300 US for the plunge saw insert.

Frank,

Can I borrow a million or 2?  I'm glad you don't set prices for Festool.   If you did, the only thing I could afford are the Trion Jig Saw blades and I'd have to buy them at Home Depot.

Al

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

It's kind of like my 1200 dollar tile saw, use it about 5-10 times a year but, it is so nice to have it.  Paid for itself the first time I got a hernia setting it up.

Some of you that think it might be pricey, do you have that 1300 dollar miter saw??

 

[EcoFurniture]

It's kind of like my 1200 dollar tile saw, use it about 5-10 times a year but, it is so nice to have it.  Paid for itself the first time I got a hernia setting it up.

Some of you that think it might be pricey, do you have that 1300 dollar miter saw??

As a hobbyist I would not be able to justify to purchase of any festool... As a company, I have to think about the tasks a tool has to do. If it helps me generate more money, make my life easier AND improve quality then it is no big deal to spend big$$$ on Festool. There are only a couple of items I can't see getting the money out of: the kapex and rotex....

The CMS on the other hand will be another big helper in my shop. I surely hope that they will also bring in the TS55 insert and also sell the components separate!

 

[fshanno]

That is one fine piece of equipment.  It's pricey but just LOOK AT IT!  You've got to consider the ROI in terms of a lifetime of business use.  That's where I was with the parallel guides.  $325 was a lot for some aluminum and plastic and the payback was over a long long haul because alternative methods were pretty good and very cheap.  But there was payback down the road.  And though I'm reaping the payback very slowly I do have a really cool gizmo that's very fun to use.  Life is better.  That's my bottom line. 

But it's got to have TS and Trion support.  Festool will be wasting their time and they'll only sell a handful if they stop with the router insert only.  I can't believe they'd do that.  A sliding platform just for a router setup?  That's just dumb.  You have the sliding platform for cross cutting with the saw and if it happens to be there for routing so much the better.  I'll bet you anything they bring the whole rig.  If they aren't intending that now they will come to their senses.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I would think the plate for the saw would follow shortly after.

 

[Brice Burrell]

It's not Festool that doesn't want to bring the TS and jigsaw inserts to the US, it's OSHA. I'm not completely certain about that but I'm pretty sure the other inserts/uses don't meet safety requirements to sell them in the US.

 

[jonny round boy]

From what I've read historically on this site, it would appear that the reason that Festool hasn't had the CMS available in the past was UL approval. It would appear now that they are (and probably have been for a while) working hard on getting the CMS with router module approved, so they can sell it in the US (TBH I can't understand why UL is such a problem, or even necessary, but that's another matter).

Now, consider this - the module base is the only part of the CMS that has any electrical function, ie a NVR (no volt release) switch, allowing the router itself to plug in & be controlled by the switch on the frame. The inserts, which actually hold the tools, have no electrical parts - they're purely aluminium castings/extrusions & plastic mouldings (I'm simplifying things here, but you get the point).

So - if Festool does get UL approval for the base with the router insert in, but doesn't sell the other modules, it's not the end of the world. You could buy the router version, and then 'acquire' the TS55, TS75, belt sander or jigsaw module from overseas. Since they're purely mechanical there's no voltage issue, no consumables required, and no real likelyhood for any warranty claim. End of problem.

Festool USA can sell the CMS as a router table; US customers can buy it, and can get other modules from abroad. Since Festool USA doesn't supply the other modules, they can't be ticked off by UL. Everyone's a winner!

 

[justinmcf]

as an owner of the cms and ts-75, i really dont see the big deal with getting the other aluminium modules approved. as jonny has pointed out, only the cms-ge has any  electrical components.
i think festool are playing it safe for now, and i can only guess that in the near future, all the modules will be available to U.S. customers.
if they dont become available, you can then buy the other modules overseas. as jonny has already pointed out also.

here is an example for you from ebay.co.uk

ebay seller:  healystools

festool module mounting cms-ts75, 493 360, 266 english pounds (sterling), or US$439.

they do not ship overseas, but i reckon if enough people start asking about shipping to the U.S., i am sure they will change their tune....

regards, justin.

 

[ForumMFG]

From what I've read historically on this site, it would appear that the reason that Festool hasn't had the CMS available in the past was UL approval. It would appear now that they are (and probably have been for a while) working hard on getting the CMS with router module approved, so they can sell it in the US (TBH I can't understand why UL is such a problem, or even necessary, but that's another matter).

UL is not a requirement for festool to bring tools in the US by OSHA, it is Festools choice.  If festool wants a good price on insurance then they must have a UL approved stamp on all their products.  Their insurance company requires it for good pricing.  So no, it's not a requirement or law by the US that the tools are UL approved, it's a requirement for the insurance company that allows festool to get a good price.

It's kinda like if you have a alarm on your house, you get a discount.  Or if you have  pond in your back yard, you get a discount.  Reason for ponds is the water access for firemen if water is not near by.

 

[Dan Clermont]

In Canada if we sell tools which are not UL or CSA approved we risk getting sued!

Most dealers will only import approved tools and I suspect Festool must do it for legal reasons and to protect themselves as well as their dealers.

The CMS should pass quite easily. Other then a simple junction box their really isn't much more to test. The saws, routers and jigsaws already meet UL Approval

Dan Clermont

 

[score0matic]

I guess i am kind of lost here.  some folks are willing to pay----

How much would I pay?  I think about $700 US for the base, $300 US for the router insert, and about $300 US for the plunge saw insert.

for that price you can purchase another mft 3 cut it in 2 add the back rail. 

Save or sell the top  (make sure you remove it before cutting ) and make another out of laminated mdf or aluminum.

Sell the other 1/2 on ebay and recoup your cost ;D ;D

now you can use steves insert setup  which provides saw router and jig inserts now.

or any other router lift.

for a fence add in an IncraLS17 or LS24 set the mounting bracket up to drop into the hole pattern of the MFTand screw down like the festool clamping elements              this fence is Superior to ANY any other fence in this application (If you don't understand why........It is kinda like a JEEP thing )

Now you have a solution that may be more useful than CMS shown  (cant cut dove tales on the cms)

(Editorial) 

One of the things that really draws me to Festool is their "systems approach"  it is such a draw because it almost invites customizing.
crosscut guide
rip guide
angle stop
32mm hole pattens
rail rulers

the mft3 rails are designed to have things attached to them  nothing says that you cant design and build your own attachments.

Second many of their products are unavailable here inviting you to find parallel solutions.

Third  Festool does suffer from groupthink and it does limit their ability to find creative solutions that are outside of their paradigm,  this is a common problem with almost every creative group.    ie the MFT and ripping and crosscutting 49"x97" sheets.

Finally  Their price is high enough that it allows me to look hard at "making" an alternative.  see above

Thanks Craig

 

[score0matic]

It's kinda like if you have a alarm on your house, you get a discount.  Or if you have  pond in your back yard, you get a discount.  Reason for ponds is the water access for firemen if water is not near by.

Interesting I would have guessed that the added liability of drownings would cause it to go up.  I learn something new every day Thanks Dave

Craig

 

[ForumMFG]

Chairmon,

My wifes mother lives in a farm land setting area.  She has a pond behind her house and she gets a major discount just for that reason.

 

[spikfot]

Thanks for the pictures, Joe
I ordered the CMS in Jan.2008, and after a 2 minute inspection, I said no thanks. My problem mainly was with the thumbscrews that hold the fence to the table. It seemed like a bit more of the r/d time could have been been focused on a more user-friendly and functional solution that does not requires re-squaring and recalibrating by hand with every bit change/adj.
Using clamps to fasten the router to the table, and floating thumbscrews to fasten the fence to the table is not indicative of the typical level of festool engineering, especially for that price.
On the positive side, the micro-dial on the infeed fence works great.

Hopefully Festool will not delay the release of a router with through-the-base depth adjustment because they do not want to effect sales of the CMS.  Usually Festool rides the crest, but in this important evolution of the router, it seems they are missing the wave.
Modifying my OF2000 to fit a routeraizer was not really fun.
Before I actually had my hands on a OF2200, I had convinced myself they had incorporated (through the base) and was ready to buy one. When I flipped it over it look at the base, the demo-guy thought I was about to start crying.
Now I am getting of topic....
Sorry for the weird punctuation, my keyboard will not go into English.