Any experience with the Bosch Litheon 10.8v Pocket Tools?

[Ned]

Both the PS20 pocket drill/driver and the PS40 impact tool look like they would complement the later acquisition of a C12.

What do the Festool-knowledgeable (or at least Festool-inclined) think of this line of tools from Bosch?

Ned

It's snowing!

 

[Eli]

Two of my friends, one a homeowner, one a carpenter. The homeowner bought himself the PS40. The carpenter came to install kitchen cabinets and ridiculed the size, etc, etc of the drill. I'm informed halfway through the job it was in his hands every other move, and he used it to install all the drawer slides. Was really pleased with the weight. I'm kind of bummed, I just got the Bosch Rockbox and it doesn't charge Li-Ion batteries, so I've got to go for a last generation impact.

I'd think the PS20 would be only useful as an offsider, ie, if you were countersinking and driving to have it set up dedicated with a countersink bit. Otherwise the C12 makes it redundant. It doesn't impact drive either.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Ned, I have two PS20 drill/drivers, picked them up as demo tools being sold after a tread show for $100 (USD) for both of them. I intended to sell them but decided to keep because I like them. They have a lot of power for the size, I've run 3"screws without pre drilling. I use them for small hardware like hinges, locks and for electrical work. They fit inside almost any tool belt or even your pocket. I've not seen the PS40 yet.

 

[Daviddubya]

A friend of mine has both Bosch tools, and I have used them.  The drill/driver is awesome.  It has lots of power and battery life for a small tool.  The impact driver is good for smaller screws, like up to 2".  It is wonderful for working on cabinet hardware and similar low power applications.  I have tried to use the impact driver to drive deck screws, and it lacks the power/torque for that job - takes too long.

 

[Dan Clark]

I posted this on another forum.  The Bosch LI's are nice, but I bought a Makita Impact Driver because I already had a C12 for the smaller stuff and needed more "oomph".  Check out the spec comparison between the Makita Impact Driver and the Bosch PS40 at the bottom of the post.

Regards,

Dan.

----

I was going to get the PS40 and it sounded good initially. After I looked deeper and compared it to the Makita BTD142HW 18V Lithium-Ion Cordless Impact Driver, it was a no brainer.

The Makita costs $7 more and weighs about 9 oz more. For me that's pretty trivial when compared to the other specs where it whomps the Bosch badly.

Specs below.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., I own Bosch and Makita. I'd buy either brand if it was the best alternative.

----

Torque: 1280 inch-lbs of torque vs Bosch's 800 inch-lbs
Weight: 2.8 lbs vs the Bosch's 2.2lbs
Cost: $202.87 vs Bosch $195.86 (current price on amazon)
RPM/BPM: 2,300 RPM/3,200 BPM vs Bosch's 1,800 RPM/3,000 BPM
Head Length: 5.75" vs Bosch's 6.5"
Charger: 15 minute vs Bosch's 30 minute

 

[chughes]

            I bought the bosch 10.8 I drive first because of its very shallow offset.  I build and install cabinets for a living so having a driver that fit inside a 9" faceframe so well is great.  When bosch released the "impactor" with the same battery platform it was a no-brainer.  The tool is great for driving screws in face-frames or cabinet head screws when hanging boxes, so I have two now.  On the downside, the batteries are pretty small so it seems that they may be more sensitive to the cold and because it is an impact tool I find myself at times trying to drive fasteners that are to big instead of getting a bigger drill.
            My next cordless drill will probably be the 18v makita LI.  Most of my friends already have them and like the power to weight ratio.  They have two choices for this platform; a 18v 1.5 ah and 18v 3ah.  I believe the 1.5ah charges in 15 minutes but the tool discharges in use too quickly for my use.

 

[Dan Clark]

I have the 15Ah.  I've found it fine for my use.  I like the solid feeling of the bigger "blue" Makita set, but it is significantly heavier.  One note, however... 

Whatever you get, consider getting the complete kit.  I just got the impact driver.  Today, out of curiosity, I checked out the price of the drill alone (no batteries, charger, etc.).  Over $200!!!  I should have bought the kit.

Regards,

Dan. 

 

[Eli]

Yeah, here's where you get yours back. The 14.4 NiMH Makita impact? $550 AUD.

 

[Lou Miller]

Yeah, here's where you get yours back. The 14.4 NiMH Makita impact? $550 AUD.

Yeah, we get ours back in a big way in this area. I bought the 14.4 Makita kit (impact driver, drill, charger, two batteries and a case) for $150 (US). I also bought the the newer compact lithium kit (no light with this one, just the impact driver and a drill) recently for $195 (US). Eventually, the rest of the world will start selling impact drivers at much more affordable prices, they have to. We're spoiled with them here in the US right now though. They really are great tools and they are dirt cheap.

Both Makita kits are awesome. I'd personally buy the compact Makita 18V lithium impact driver over the Bosch impactors today. The compact LI drivers have a VERY small head on them. Despite being a larger tool overall, they are actually capable of fitting into much tighter spaces than the Bosch. I don't have any problem at all with the 1.5 AH batteries discharging too quickly either. I can install a full set of cabinets with only having to change the battery once, and sometimes not at all. That's driving 3" long #10 installation screws for hanging the cabinets, and 2-1/2" #8 square drive screws for the face frames. All of the specs that Dan listed above make it obvious that the compact Makita gives you all the benefits of a full sized driver, but in a very small lightweight package. I'm not saying the Bosch is a bad tool, because its pretty good. You just get a much better value with the Makitas right now.

 

[Norm St.Onge]

The PS20 is nice for finesse work; cabinets, door hardware, etc. I've used it on occasion to install storm doors and hinges for exterior doors - out of the box it worked like a champ, after a couple dozen charging cycles the battery has lost some oomph and it no longer can generate the torque to so those jobs. My other gripe is that batteries don't like cold weather. Left overnight in the van and the batteries are dead, a pain the neck from November through March. Other than that it's a nice comfortable tool which works great for specific jobs.

No experience with the PS40, I have the Makita 18v LI impactor that I wouldn't trade for anything.

-Norm

 

[Ned]

Thanks to all for the info and opinions.  You have saved me some money.

Dan's comparison of the 10.8v impact tool vs. a Makita product was especially useful.

Sounds to me as if the Makita would be a better companion to a C12 than the little Bosch Impactor.

Ned

 

[Ned]

I just got the new McFeeley's catalog and they're offering a Makita 7.2v Li-Ion Pocket Impact Driver Kit for 109 USD.

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[Christian A.]

Hello everybody,

I just got the new McFeeley's catalog and they're offering a Makita 7.2v Li-Ion Pocket Impact Driver Kit for 109 USD.

As far as I know, this Makita impact driver lacks a variable speed trigger. This is why I would stay away from it and rather get the Bosch PS40 instead of it.

Regards,

Christian

 

[romlee]

I own a PA20 and like it very much for installs in tight quarters.  I bought the PS40 because I thought it would make a good companion.  I returned it after comparing it in use with a Makita Li impact driver.  The Makita has more "oomph" and while it weighs more and is larger, it seems to take much less effort to drive screws.  The Makita 1.5 ahm battery is so light and compact that it seems a reasonable trade off for the short run time.  I'm not a big guy so weight and bulk is a major consideration for me.

By the way, the PS40 owner's manual specifically states it is NOT to be used as a drill.  Only as a driver.  The "ring" (instead of a single) of LED's around the PS40's chuck is wonderful, I have to say.

Besides the PA20 and Makita impact driver, I own a C12 and a Makita Li drill (shares the same batteries as the impact driver).  It's been a very good combination.

 

[Ned]

Hello everybody,

I just got the new McFeeley's catalog and they're offering a Makita 7.2v Li-Ion Pocket Impact Driver Kit for 109 USD.

As far as I know, this Makita impact driver lacks a variable speed trigger. This is why I would stay away from it and rather get the Bosch PS40 instead of it.

Regards,

Christian

That's a good point.  Dan's already talked me into a Makita BTD142HW 18V Lithium-Ion Cordless Impact Driver, so I wasn't in great danger.

And thanks for the link to the German tool catalog in another thread.

Ned

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  This thread has ben revived at a perfect time.  I was just looking into these today as well as the new Milwaukee compact 12v.  I am interested in one of these for my portable tool  set up.  I want something that will get into cabinets as well as regular driving situations.  I currently am using DeWalt 12v drill/driver and also the companion angle head drill/driver.  I like them , but they take a lot of space in the tool chest- two relativley large tools plus three or four batteries, and the charger.    I know get a C12.  Some day when I kill all my DWs, I have a bunch in the shop as well. Plus I would actually like something that takes even less space than the C12 (including charger etc)  in my tool box.  I would not be doing heavy work with this. Just installing stuff I build.    Everything I have read here and elswere suggests that they drive screws just fine. My question is how well do they drill?  Mostly for drilling and countersinking, #8 screw and smaller.    I typically  drill and drive about 20 or less on site.

Seth

 

[romlee]

I carry a Systainer 4 packed with tools for installations.  Inside are the Bosch PS20 and charger with one spare battery, 1/4" quick change drill indexes (brad point and machinist bits), two rollup canvas bags for butt chisels and a small brass mallet and a set of  6 screwdrivers (square, philipps and slot), measuring and marking tools (Shinwa bevel, small Veritas marking gauge, 6" Starrett flexible end reading rule, scratch awl, marking knife), a Veritas apron plane, diamond stone, , folding dozuki pull saw, Starrett 12" combo square, notepad and pencils, sanding block and a few half sheets of paper in various grits.

There's probably more stuff rolling around in the bottom that I haven't seen since I first set up the Systainer.  All this fills up about 3/4 of the Systainer.  I bring other tools (power and hand) as needed.

I use the Bosch just as you described:  drilling, countersinking and driving #8 square drive screws (maybe 20 - 30 per job).  It's been perfect for this work.  I carry the charger and extra battery but to be honest, I don't remember having to change batteries during the course of a job.  I guess I just feel better if I have the backup.

I originally bought the C12 to fill this function on site but now I leave it at the shop for work there.  If I need a larger drill, then I pack the Makita Li drill and/or impact driver.

My work doesn't usually involve cabinets.  Like you, it's not big work.  So, the setup in the Systainer has been more than adequate for my needs.

 

[danrush]

I install cabinets all day - everyday.  My setup is a C-12 for drilling, ( cab. backs, stiles, elec/plumbing cut-outs, etc.)
I love the right angle for small cabs.  The ps-20 is my go to driver for just about all screws, including 3" hangers.  The Bosch has never let me down.  I do find that the batteries don't like the cold, but that's overcome by slipping a couple in my lunchbox on my way home to come in the house on cold nights.  I thought at first the LED was just a gimmick.
Boy was I wrong, I've really come to rely on the little light in dark cabinet interiors.

 

[semenza]

I carry a Systainer 4 packed with tools for installations.  Inside are the Bosch PS20 and charger with one spare battery, 1/4" quick change drill indexes (brad point and machinist bits), two rollup canvas bags for butt chisels and a small brass mallet and a set of  6 screwdrivers (square, philipps and slot), measuring and marking tools (Shinwa bevel, small Veritas marking gauge, 6" Starrett flexible end reading rule, scratch awl, marking knife), a Veritas apron plane, diamond stone, , folding dozuki pull saw, Starrett 12" combo square, notepad and pencils, sanding block and a few half sheets of paper in various grits.

There's probably more stuff rolling around in the bottom that I haven't seen since I first set up the Systainer.  All this fills up about 3/4 of the Systainer.  I bring other tools (power and hand) as needed.

I use the Bosch just as you described:  drilling, countersinking and driving #8 square drive screws (maybe 20 - 30 per job).  It's been perfect for this work.  I carry the charger and extra battery but to be honest, I don't remember having to change batteries during the course of a job.  I guess I just feel better if I have the backup.

I originally bought the C12 to fill this function on site but now I leave it at the shop for work there.  If I need a larger drill, then I pack the Makita Li drill and/or impact driver.

My work doesn't usually involve cabinets.  Like you, it's not big work.  So, the setup in the Systainer has been more than adequate for my needs.

Hi, 

    So for drilling, it works well enough ?  It just seems like the rpm is kind of slow to do a good job of that. m Also have you tried anything larger? Drilling a 1/4" hole etc.

Seth

 

[mxlars]

I've never tried drilling a single hole with my PS20, but it really impresses me as a screwdriver - it's a nice compliment to the C12 and used frequently. Torque settings are precise and repeatable, usable for anything from connecting wires in outlets/switches to driving 3" in wood.
Earlier I used my Panasonic EY6220 for electrical installations/connections, but now it's only collecting dust..
The PS20 is only geared to