Is the TPC any good?

[mino]

P.S. I sure would like to see someone drill a hole in 4th gear with that 35mm forstner bit! If I end up getting the drill I'll do it and post a video.

Careful there, that is a Zobo bit. Sharp as knife, tough the same and cuts softwood like butter ...

About the gearing, what you say is not possible.

There are 2 gear ratios in 4-speed gearbox like the one in the TPC:

1.5 and 4.7 (rounded as do not have the gearbox in hand)
1x1 => 520-ish (as 500)
1.5x1 => 770-ish (as 800)
1x4.7 => 2350
1.5x4.7 => 3600

The older PDC had a bit higher top and a bit lower bottom speed and it has the 3rd speed (for me) in the "weird" teritory where it was slower than most good 2-speed drills. Notice the increase in the 2nd gear ratio from 4.5 => 4.7, that was clearly not done to improve longevity or torque, it does the opposite on both, so must have come from customer/user demand.

PDC/DRC has it at 2.1 and 4.5 for a bigger range:
1x1 => 400
2.1x1 => 850
1x4.5 => 1850
2.1x4.5 => 3800

Also, it is good to note the higher "low" speeds for the TPC. Both 1st and 3rd gear. That would have "consumed" about 20% of the torque uplift the TPC got from the stronger motor.

ADD:
What the DRC/PDC ratios mean for me, is I almost never use the 3rd gear and rarely the 2nd gear.
For stuff that does not need torque, I keep it at 4th 95% of the time, and regulate the speed by the trigger as needed - it is sensitive enough for working across about 500-3800 rpm range.
For stuff that does need torque, I almost always go to 1st gear. Rarely 2nd. I have used 3rd maybe like 2 or 3 times. Granted, the gear selector does not help here, but I just did not feel I *wanted* that 1850 speed for any task as the trigger-controlled 4th is more convenient.

With the new ratios on the TPC, I could see myself using the 3rd gear more often. It has a speed high-enough for many tasks. I can also see using the 2nd gear more often. It has only 1.5x the speed of the 1st so will have aplenty of torque still, unlike on the PDC.

Whatever went through Festool engineers heads, the updated gear rations DO make sense to me. Effectively thy now have two "strong and slow" gears in the 1st and 2nd and two "weak and fast" in the 3rd and 4th. On the PDC this was more evenly spread out, leaving the 3rd (and partially 2nd) in "no man's land". At least for me.

To me it seems like PDC/DRC were more an "engineer's design" as far as the gearing - lower demands on gears, more evenly spread ratios.
On the other hand, the TPC/TDC seem more an "user's (or specifically cabinet maker's)" design - higher demands on gears, more power given up for higher low speeds at the cost of more task-focused available speeds.

Looking back at the gearing changes, I can now safely say the TPC is an upgrade on the PDC but it is NOT more powerful/stronger drill, despite the paper values. Sure it has about 50% stronger motor, but most of the power from the stronger motor is "consumed" on higher low speeds and on making the torque break less of a deal breaker.

Now I am sure I will not be getting the TPC - it would not be an upgrade /in capabilities/ over my DRC with which I am happy capability-wise. The funny part: I would welcome a torque break on my DRC. It has twisted my arm more than once ...  [cool]

 

[emilhedevang]

I have the TPC and just tried it with a 35 mm ZOBO drill in Douglas fir in the fourth gear. Wow! It effortlessly drilled through the wood.

 

[tomktest]

I have the TPC and just tried it with a 35 mm ZOBO drill in Douglas fir in the fourth gear. Wow! It effortlessly drilled through the wood.

[thumbs up]

Now I am sure I will not be getting the TPC - it would not be an upgrade /in capabilities/ over my DRC with which I am happy capability-wise. The funny part: I would welcome a torque break on my DRC. It has twisted my arm more than once ...  [cool]

Well since my Milwaukee Gen 3 Drill and Impact are now sold I really need to have a heavy duty impact and drill (with a handle) around. Looks like I'll either grab a cheap DCD999 on ebay or grab the Festool set.

From a price perspective it's really not a whole lot extra for the Festool plus it's a whole lot nicer kit.

DeWalt Ebay (no warranty)
$110 for DCD999 + $100 for DCF850/DCF887 + $150 for batteries + $100 case = $460

DeWalt from authorized dealer
DCD999 / DCF887 combo w/ batteries $399 + $100 case = $499

Festool TID/TPC combo = $599

 

[mino]

I have the TPC and just tried it with a 35 mm ZOBO drill in Douglas fir in the fourth gear. Wow! It effortlessly drilled through the wood.

These ZOBO bits are worth their weight in gold ...

...
Festool TID/TPC combo = $599

That is one sweet price. Now clear why all the talk about the set in US ... in Europe that set goes for €730 ($800). That is with taxes, but still ..

 

[Chainring]

I know there's a few countries with access to the Festool Work App that they can send out updates to update things on the drill, however for some really dumb reason, there's no app available in the US which is sort of bonkers to me.

If you have a Android device around, you can side load the Festool Work app from apkpure.com. I've done that so I could check firmware on batteries.

 

[Coen]

No current plans to replace any impact with the TID.. I rarely even use impacts just because I have enough drills and find the noise annoying. They have their place but my Makita's all outperform regardless. It was just a bonus to hold onto for the future or if I need it and don't have one of the others handy. As to the quality of the TPC, it's in the air. After an issue where it can't drill a 1" hole on gears 3 or 4 and my 2 gear T18 can out perform this.. I'm planning to take the drill back to my dealer when they're open Monday to for a check out to see if it needs to be swapped. The website says it should be fine with a similar style drill bit on gear 4 up to 1-3/8 and the fact that my cheaper T18 outperforms this leaves a lot to be desired. Could just be a defective drill, could be something to do with firmware, unclear at the current time. Going to look into the app and see if there's information there I should look into since the whole app thing they have apparently is pretty new to me.

There is no way this drill can push 1 3/8 drill bit n on 4th gear. I use mine extensively, but with hole saw type drill bits. It’s has no problem on 4th speed even with bigger sizes.

For Milwaukee 1 3/8 self feeding bit, I use 2nd gear.

Well, with hole saws you can choose how hard you press and thus how much torque is required. With the Auger bits with threaded point you don't really have a choice.

Although Bosch also has an option to use a spade drillbit as centerdrill for their hole saws.

 

[mawa89]

In regards to how your TPC was shutting down when it shouldn't have- was the shut off the beep with no flashing lights or the beep with flashing lights? I'm just curious since I was trying my new one out and it was basically shutting itself down with an overload signal instead of the anti-kickback.

Your comment made me think. Thereto, I went to the workshop trying to simulate a kickback to see what it looks like with flashing light on. And you are right: It stopped working with a beep, but with no flashing lights. Thanks for the hint.

To be honest, this makes me even more think: My DRC was able to remove the screws while the TPC wasn't. The gear ratio mentioned in this thread seems to be an important reason for this (in addition to perhaps rather defensively oriented firmware).

Not sure if this was mentioned so far, but another German blogger (Michael Hild) has figured out that there is no real DRC aka TDC anymore. DRC always had less weight compared to the PDC (approx. 100 gramms). The TPC and TDC don't differ in weight. Both have equal specs (length and weight). This is because the TDC has the percussion drill function built-in, but - in contrast to the TPC - there just no button/switch to activate it. Not sure why Festool is selling the TDC at all....complete nonsense.

 

[tomktest]

Alright well I took the plunge on the TID/TPC set so I'll throw my .02 in after they get here.

I also picked up the centrotec chuck and bit holder. I like to use hex shank drills so I'm not quite sure what I am going to do. If I get a centrotec set they won't fit in the TID or the DeWalt 12v hex chucks. Maybe I could grind a 2nd recess in them to get the best of both worlds? I wish a 3rd party hex chuck existed for fastfix heads.

In the meantime I've been rocking the DeWalt 12v DCD803 installation driver and the 12v DCF801 impact. These things are fantastic. Small, light, and plenty of power. I think between the small drill/driver and impact and the Festool larger set I should have my needs covered.

 

[mino]

There is an adapter available with a Centrotec head for normal drills - check BA-CE CENTROTEC. Also the related 1/4"-50 CE/KG CENTROTEC adapter is something I use regularly for hex-head screws.

As for Centrotec/not:

The whole point of Centrotec is you do not need to remove your bits from the chuck - you remove the chuck. This completely changes the worflow. Suddenly hex drilling bits make little sense as in a Jacobs they work the same and are just more expensive. Been there.
Now, I have two Centrotec drills, so have 5 chucks (2 Jacobs, 2 CT and one depth-adjusting bought later) so that I have enough chucks around on a project to have most used bits in them for the ready. I am still eyeing another T18 for one more chuck set.

How it works for me:
I use the Jacobs chucks for drilling (you can put hex bits in it fine in your case) and Centrotec for short bits in the BHS adapter. I bother proper Centrotec bits only for the long and specialist ones - where the better centering of the Centrotec makes a real difference.

IMO where buying Centrotec bits makes sense is the special bits - check the Centrotec installers set (not to buy the whole set, but for a quick reference of what is available). With the specialist bits, which are excellent, the cost increment of Centrotect gets drowned in the bit cost and all the benefits are in. With casual drill bits it gets expensive fast compared to a casual drilling bit + Jacobs.

That said, before you get yourself in grips with the whole "Centrotec thing" there is only piece I would 100% recommend to get /if not already/ - the BHS 60 CE bit holder. It is locking and is pretty much the best bit holder out there. The head is from WERA.

As for the TID, you do not want to be putting normal bits in an impact ..

 

[tomktest]

The whole point of Centrotec is you do not need to remove your bits from the chuck - you remove the chuck. This completely changes the worflow. Suddenly hex drilling bits make little sense as in a Jacobs they work the same and are just more expensive. Been there.
Now, I have two Centrotec drills, so have 5 chucks (2 Jacobs, 2 CT and one depth-adjusting bought later) so that I have enough chucks around on a project to have most used bits in them for the ready. I am still eyeing another T18 for one more chuck set.

This is nice to know... I figured you had to take the drill or bit holder out of the chuck so that's great.

That said, before you get yourself in grips with the whole "Centrotec thing" there is only piece I would 100% recommend to get /if not already/ - the BHS 60 CE bit holder. It is locking and is pretty much the best bit holder out there. The head is from WERA.

As for the TID, you do not want to be putting normal bits in an impact ..

Yeah I ordered that bit holder with the drill which solves my screw driving issue. As much as I would rather use longer bits I've been using the short bits with magnetic holders because... magnets!

I hadn't planned on using drill bits in the TID but I was thinking how I could buy a nice set of centrotec twist drills and still be able to use them on my DeWalt standard hex installation driver without having to use the jacobs chuck. I could grind another detent in them. Otherwise I can use the Jacobs chuck or have another dedicated set of hex drill bits.

 

[mino]

YMMV, but I would not bother with any casual Centrotec drill bit sets until after you are sure that is what you really want. The specialist bits are a different beast, they are worth the money.

I had a pile of hex drill bits and since getting my Festool drills I did not buy any more of them, nor their Centrotec equivalents. The quick-change Jacobs chucks are enough to address the need to swap bits plus they make the bits way more stable to boot.

IMO it is much better to spend the money saved on another CSX/TSX or C18/T18 giving you a couple more chucks or just straight getting a couple additional Jacobs chucks so you can have 2-3 chucks on hand fitted with the required drill bits for a project.
These Jacobs chucks are also great ergonomically - you can "stand" them on their butts with drill bits in so they are very easy to see, do not move and are easy to grab as I go. Also thin bits like 0.1" I use for pre-drilling are well protected from damage that way.

Good to mind the TPC is no light drill by any stretch. Having a Jacobs on it with a drill bit is almost no difference to having a Centrotec bit in the Centrotec chuck. 2.5 versus 2.4 kg, no difference.

With the C-series drills, on the other hand, it can be a bit bothersome with the Jacobs adding the front weight. But with my DRC there is no notice of that given how substantial the drill itself is.

 

[grobkuschelig]

… just straight getting a couple additional Jacobs chucks so you can have 2-3 chucks on hand fitted with the required drill bits for a project.

What [mention]mino [/mention] said.
I have 2 of the Centrotec chucks in every drill Systainer for easy swapping.

For the Jakobs chucks, keep in mind that there is a „CXS/TXS“ Version that goes up to 10mm shank size.
It is a nice and light alternative to the 13mm chucks on the bigger drills, if you don’t need the diameter. So perfect as a second chuck for a small drill/bitholder…

 

[markstubb]

Just received my TID/TPC set and was honestly surprised to not find a centrotec chuck in there.  I suppose I just overlooked it not being included as every other Festool drill I own came with one.

I did pick up a few BHS 60 holders.  Have had the OE Wera version for years and it's a fantastic bit holder.

 

[mino]

That is just stupid, frankly, on the Festool side. Just. Stupid.

On the other hand I can see there is the angle chuck included in the set. That makes it a way better deal than if the Centrotec chuck was included - at least for the US $599 price it makes it an even sweeter deal.

So the set is a better value for the customer and worse for Festool. Both on cost to make and on brand awareness/distribution. Just. Plain. Stupid.

 

[tomktest]

Yep I agree the chuck should have been thrown in there although I can a plausible reason as the TID is 1/4" hex and they didn't want someone saying "What the heck is this centrotec?" Although, if you are buying the set you really should know what it is. I am happy the angle adapter is in there instead of the offset - I can't ever see the need to do heavy duty offset drilling whereas I am sure to need to run an auger in a tight place from time to time.

My set will arrive tomorrow but I just got word that my bit holder and chuck are backordered  [blink]

 

[elfick]

Just received my TID/TPC set and was honestly surprised to not find a centrotec chuck in there.  I suppose I just overlooked it not being included as every other Festool drill I own came with one.

I did pick up a few BHS 60 holders.  Have had the OE Wera version for years and it's a fantastic bit holder.

It's worth noting that the TPC sets do include it but none of the TID sets do, regardless of whether you get a combo with a T18, PDC, or TPC.

 

[mino]

... they didn't want someone saying "What the heck is this centrotec?" ...

And that is exactly where they got it wrong.

You WANT your (new) customers asking that question. Heck, even throwing that $10 (manuf cost) Centrotec chuck in there for free is worth it for the customer to be forced to ask that question. Worst case, those who do not mind can just ignore that chuck.

Besides, the BHS possibly fits fit in the TID ? They give it as a bonus with TID at my etailer. Can someone confirm/check if generic Centrotec and/or specifically the BHS 60 CE works in the TID (without adapters) ?

 

[Coen]

The BHS 60 is probably not intended for impact use..

 

[bertv]

The BHS 60 is probably not intended for impact use..

And my guess is that the Centrotec chuck is not rated for impact use, also.

 

[tomktest]

Well I just opened up the TID/TPC set a few hours ago.

The TID is well balanced and plenty powerful for tough jobs without being over-the-top. Didn't have a ton of time to play with it because I am concerned I may have a defective unit.



I guess I get the fun task of calling up Festool tomorrow to see what the deal is.

The TPC is very nice. Weighs about the same as the Milwaukee Gen3 but it feels lighter. Bigger around and longer that the M18 but I don't see that being an issue. Motor runs very smooth and sounds so much better than the M18 or even the DeWalt DCD99x's. I like the handle with the position lock which keeps everything in place while you tighten it down. The light is nice and bright. Fastfix chucks work as you'd expect. The adjustment mechanism on the new angle adapter is a joy to use. I would have preferred a lighter plastic jacob's chuck over the metal. I found a bug with the metal chuck in that if you spin it all the way open it can get stuck open and just makes a ratcheting sound when you try to close it. I was finally able to get it free. I'll have to try and see if I can reproduce the condition. The first battery I charged must have had a problem which caused it to stop charging after a few minutes because I received a low battery warning after drilling 10 or so holes. I haven't had that issue with the 5.2 batteries from the TSC55K. The drill is very well balanced and I can see it being a favorite to use.

In the power department it could use a bit more (or better gearing) however it was more than capable of doing everything I asked it to do - just not always in gear 3 or 4. So far I wouldn't recommend this tool for doing rough electrical or plumbing every day - it's just too conservative with the power management. That said, I'd be extremely happy to use it on my own remodel projects because I have the patience to run a hole saw in speed 2.

I did some testing on a doug fir 2x4 as well as a treated SYP 2x8

I was able to run a 3/4" Milwaukee auger in speed 3. Any larger auger I had to drop it to speed 2. The largest hole I drilled was with a 5" hole saw which was done in speed 2. it did catch a few times as does happen and the drill stopped due to the torque spike (not from the kickback sensor). I did appreciate this because with my M18 drill it would have just twisted my wrist off unless I had it in the highest E-clutch setting but then it would stop all the time. I had a lot of fun drilling in speed 4 with some brad points. A 1" spade bit also worked in speed 4. I don't have spades larger that are still sharp.

I tried my mortar mixer and was very pleased with how smooth the drill was in speed 1 and 2. With my M18 Gen 3 the drill would just jerk to a halt when you let off the trigger and make an aweful sound.  The TPC stops quick as well but very smoothly.

Screw driving was actually much better than I expected! The E clutch worked just fine on some tiny 3/4" pan head screws as long as it was in speed 3 or 4. The clutch is much less sensitive in speeds 1 and 2 so YMMV. I don't have my Centrotec clutch or bit holder yet so when testing I just through in my Makita XPS bit holder into the fast fix hex and that seemed to work fine. I do wish the fast fix hex was a bit deeper to give standard hex bits more support. As it stands the end of the fast fix hex is in line with the bit holder detent. Just a little bit longer it would bridge the gap.

Shifting the 4 gears is fantastic. My M18 drill was very hard to shift. The 3-speed DeWalts are tricky like the PDC because you always miss the middle gear(s). Adjusting the clutch is quick and a better design than twisting a ring around the chuck. It would be nice if I could switch between clutch and drill mode like the T18/C18... I haven't tried hammer mode yet - I'll probably never use it as I have a rotary hammer.

Sooo... I'll *probably* keep the set for heavy duty work but most of my odd jobs around the house will still be served by my DeWalt 12v 5-in-1. I suppose it depends on what Festool does about my TID issue as well.

Yes, the TPC does act very conservatively in high torque situations. While I could see this being annoying to a full time contractor, I actually appreciate this because it protects both the operator and the tool. I recently burned up my right angle drill - I had no idea I was asking it to do too much until it was too late. That is very unlikely to happen to the TPC which is in my opinion a good thing. My favorite thing so far is the refinement of the tool, how smooth it runs, how well balanced it is, and that it sounds great to the ears (unlike my lound and screechy M18).