Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?

[threesixright]

It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

Any idea to write a open letter -in which we can express the concerns- to Festool HQ on behalf of the community? We, as customers, do have some influence to changing things for the better. However, only if we are doing so united.

Just a thought.

 

[AlexThePalex]

It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

I doubt that's gonna happen.

Hadn't realised Phil also moved on, another loss for the FOG.

 

[Roachmill]

It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

Peter

Sad to hear Phil's moved on. Hopefully he's on to better things and left with a nice big leaving present from Festool.

 

[Cheese]

It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

Peter

Sorry to see Phil depart...I always enjoyed his straight-talking answers and his short videos.  [sad] [sad]

I was also sad to see Danny Mack leave, he and Phil had the same type of hands-on, no-nonsense approach.  [sad] [sad]

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Phil is a decent sort, always helpful. He’ll be missed by Festool for sure.

As for ditching Festool. I always buy tools that I think will perform the best and be durable in a professional environment, from various brands available.

I have sold on tools from Festool, Makita, Dewalt and also Mafell.
On the few occasions I’ve sold tools on, it’s either because I’ve not been as happy with a tool as I expected to be, and replaced the tool from one from another brand. Or, the tool is not seeing enough, if any use.

I think generally the majority of Festool tools are very good, and good warranty, albeit at a premium price. The important thing for me, is how tools perform and last. Customer service is important but, tool performance means more to me.

I have emailed Festool a few times regarding certain things, and never got replies. I have always found them helpful on the phone though.

 

[ChuckS]

This thread reminds me of a die-hard Festool fan who ditched the Green for some odd reason. I never ditch a brand, only vendors with whom I have had very bad experiences with.

While I enjoy the Festool machines I own, I wouldn't equip my shop with only Festool gear. I don't own any Festool drills, fir instance, and I don't know how, for their prices, they'll be better than my Bosch or Black & Decker ones.

Like anything else, I wouldn't put all the eggs in one basket, no matter how nice that basket may be.

 

[sancho57]

I got rid of my sationary tools and now my shop is almost 100% festool. Theres nothing really I need to do the work I do. Well Maybe the conturo would be nice.  But other than that Im good. Now If I do need a new tool Ill buy it. Unless festool comes out with something that will really improve my work flow, I just buy accessories .

 

[Cheese]

This thread reminds me of a die-hard Festool fan who ditched the Green for some odd reason.

Is that the same Festool die-hard I'm thinking of? A bearded gent that owned more Festool gear than the typical Festool retailer?

If so, that was indeed a curious turn of events...

 

[WillB]

To the OP, very sorry to hear about your problems.  I feel your pain.  I assume many reading this feel the same.  These are not BORG tools, they are premium tools we pay 2-8x the price for. 

To answer your question about ditching Festool...
I own a fair bit of Festool tools... when I started 15yrs ago, I drank the green koolaid like many others.  I was loyal to the brand.  But nothing looses loyalty faster than failed products, poor service and customer care, poor design, poor QC, etc.  Some of the design shortcomings, all wrote about previously on this site.  Batteries failing at a rate 3x greater than Bosch or DWalt.  New saws come not square, etc.  Seems users on this site know more about the problems with Festool than the Festool USA service staff does, as they can make you feel as if that is the first time they ever heard of a problem, and yet, its written all over this forum. 

So now, I treat Festool as just another vendor, they are no longer my first choice like they were in the past.  Now, I look for other vendors first, if their products meet my needs, I buy them.  If Festool has a tool I need, and its uniqueness separates it from the competition, I will buy it.  So I have not ditched Festool, but I am not super loyal as in the past, always wanting to support the company like when i started. 

BTW, I marvel how DWalt and Bosch sell such high quality tools at low prices, and I have had nothing but great experiences with their tools, very very few failues, and at the prices they sell for, I would be OK with more failures.  Bottom line, the competition is getting better and better, which is good for us consumers. 

 

[Mario Turcot]

BTW, I marvel how DWalt and Bosch sell such high quality tools at low prices, and I have had nothing but great experiences with their tools, very very few failues, and at the prices they sell for, I would be OK with more failures.  Bottom line, the competition is getting better and better, which is good for us consumers.

Will, I don't know about Bosch, I don't own any because they are less accessible to me and also more expensive compare to Dewalt/Makita/Milwaukee. Those three companies sells cordless power tools pretty cheap, where they get you is on the batteries. I have over 10 Milwaukee M18 and often I paid less for the bare tool then a high capacity batteries. I just bought a bare impact drill M12 yesterday for $74, a single XC 6.0 is $118  [eek]

 

[WillB]

I see that here too with Milwaukee...
ON amazon, there is always specials, so I get batteries pretty reasonable, and of course, they are all interchangeable if you stay in the same tool family.. all my DW tools run off the 20V and most of Bosch are the small 12V tools, which are just fabulous for light weight power tools, all interchangeable. 
Regardless, for me, the tools plus batteries compared to Festool, easily 50 - 70% less.  I have nothing against Milwaukee tools, just started with these battery systems and it grew, cant change now!

 

[DeformedTree]

I have a lot of M18 tools, never bought a replacement battery.  Some of the tools I bought came with batteries and chargers (combo kits are a good deal).  The batteries I have are all nearly 10 years old and still going strong.

Bare tools are a great deal, and this is why sticking to a brand works so well.  It's also why buying into a battery system from a company with only a small number of battery tools or one that is still in the phase where they haven't locked in their battery design for the long term isn't going to happen for me.

 

[Cheese]

I think the two strongest battery platforms out there are Milwaukee & Metabo. Milwaukee has always been a leader except for that horrific V-28 program...that still brings tears to my eyes.

I've had Milwaukee cordless tools for 20 years and most of them still function...except for the V-28's.  [crying] [crying] [crying]

Metabo has entered into a cordless alliance with Mafell and others to standardize the battery platform. That seems to be a good move going forward.

I think the best of all worlds would be for Festool to design tools that use Milwaukee batteries. I'm just not that sold long-term on Festool batteries. There are some quirks in the platform.

As an aside, I also want to purchase a Grayco cordless spray gun but the Dewalt battery platform they use, always prevents me from pulling the pin. That bad taste in your mouth lasts for years.

 

[xedos]

a single XC 6.0 is $118

As an extrapolation of dollar per Ah, this is fairly consistent with the price of the base 2.0Ah battery.  I've also seen them on sale for $82USD.

I'm just not that sold long-term on Festool batteries. There are some quirks in the platform.

For sure. They can't (or most likely won't) even standardize within their own brand.  12v drill battery won't fit the sander.  Neither will fit any other tool in the lineup.  For a brief time I think there were even two different batteries for the CXS and TXS. And while everyone else is upgrading the cells to increase Ah, we still only have one offering.

 

[Rob Z]

Hello Will

I had the opposite experience with all the Festool batteries I had for many years. I was amazed at how well they held a charge, even when tools and batteries had been left in the truck for days, during the cold of winter.  I recently sold the last of my FT  and Hilti cordless drills and used the proceeds to buy some DeWalt cordless 20V drills because I wanted to be able to have one battery work for drill , cordless saw, etc.

As for the Customer Service end of things, I experienced the same sort of "attitude" the few times I needed to call Festool USA. At the time my dealer was Tom Bellemare and he stepped up and dealt with Festool on my behalf.  Once Tom left us  :'( I never did strike up a good relationship with another dealer. 

I agree with your observation about DeWalt and Bosch.

One thing the younger members here might not know is how expensive power tools were 30-40 years ago.  I still have some Porter Cable, Milwaukee and Skil tools that are 30-40+ years old. I recall how much some cost, and for others, I have seen the ads recently while going through old issues  Fine Woodworking and Fine Homebuilding.  The tools back then cost a heck of a lot compared to what I was earning at the time. In some ways, they were like FT is now in terms of cost.  And they have lasted a long time because of the build quality.

  Batteries failing at a rate 3x greater than Bosch or DWalt.  Seems users on this site know more about the problems with Festool than the Festool USA service staff does, as they can make you feel as if that is the first time they ever heard of a problem, and yet, its written all over this forum. 

BTW, I marvel how DWalt and Bosch sell such high quality tools at low prices, and I have had nothing but great experiences with their tools, very very few failues, and at the prices they sell for, I would be OK with more failures.  Bottom line, the competition is getting better and better, which is good for us consumers.

 

[rst]

Cheese, I have the Graco cordless.  Like you I do not like Dewalt, so the three batteries I bought are for that tool only.  There is a learning curve with use but is a great tool for smaller jobs.  I have a Titan airless, a forty year old Binks conventional and an older Wagner HVLP with a Fugi gun that covers all my other spraying.  I bought extra cup frames to keep thinner and also bought the larger cups offered for the Ultra to reduce the refilling the cup effect.  I did not buy the Ultra  for solvent base material as the only way it is grounded is with a grounded wire for solvent base material.  I do run acetone through mine for cleaning but do it in moderation and outdoors only.

 

[WillB]

Interesting how the battery experiences can be so hit or miss...
So great to have these forums to hear others experiences.
BTW, when I do call Bosch or DW for the few problems I had, the service was FIRST CLASS, which is what I would expect from Festool, but its not the case.  Bosch now has Texting customer service.  I had to use this few months ago, and it was the painless customer service I ever experienced, a few texts up n back, on my timeline, and they sent a replacment, no need to return the defect.  Even customer service is stepping up with these toolmakers.

I had two TS55 REB batteries die in less than 1.5 years, with very light use.  I had two battery chargers fail over the same time.  CXS batteries, I spent more on replacement batteries than I would have paid for the Bosch 12v system with batteries, which has all the same drill accessories as the CXS, and retails for $99 on sale.  The system has been flawless for 2 years so far with intermediate use. 

Agreed on the price of tools 30+ years ago vs. today.  When I see the quality of these tools today, AND the low prices, I am blown away.  I just picked up the DW Atomic 4.5" circ saw last week for $99 on sale at Amazon, was soo impressed with this tool at this price point.  It even has an excellent dust extraction port that works VERY well.  Glad to see these other makers considering dust control in the design.  Festool stood alone in this area for years, which made me a Festool fan years ago.

I really appreciate the shared battery systems.  AS mentioned by prevous posters, Festool has not moved in that direction, which is too much cost and hassle for me to deal with.  Hence why, I wont buy any more Festool cordless tools.  The TS55REB is woth any battery hassles, as any cords on a track saw, specially when cutting outside the shop is nuissance.  In addition, the dust collection bag on the TS55REB far exceeded my expectations. 

 

[JFelchlin]

I was going to REPLY to this thread -
But WillB said it all in his REPLY #128.

Long a dedicated Festool buyer - I’m not selling any of them.
And... I’d still buy a unique Festool product.

But...
Festool’s “attitude” regarding taking responsibility for their products’ failures -
Will make me a Metabo/Mafell buyer of any like/kind tools going forward.

Sorry Festool.
You’ve wasted your “street cred”.
And destroyed your Customers’ loyalty.

 

[DeformedTree]

One thing the younger members here might not know is how expensive power tools were 30-40 years ago.  I still have some Porter Cable, Milwaukee and Skil tools that are 30-40+ years old. I recall how much some cost, and for others, I have seen the ads recently while going through old issues  Fine Woodworking and Fine Homebuilding.  The tools back then cost a heck of a lot compared to what I was earning at the time. In some ways, they were like FT is now in terms of cost.  And they have lasted a long time because of the build quality.

Yeah, I think a lot of us are aware of this. just look at how the price of tools that aren't festool or mafell go down year over year, just reverse things.

A lot of the price difference is per-internet, when folks basically had the local store.  Manufacturing changes in the past few decades makes a huge change. 

I buy a lot of Milwaukee stuff because I remember my father discovering them long ago and finding the massive difference between them and something from Sears.  Which is part of this too, there was a lot of junk back then too, but it's long since gone.  Survivor bias here. People see the stuff that lasted and think everything back then was good, it wasn't.  What it did have is simplicity.  A lot of old tools live because they are just very simple, very little to go wrong. Which if it just has one simple function is fine. But you say simplify a plunging tracksaw with variable speed and integrated dust collection, you just have an old circular saw which defeats the point.

 

[grbmds]

A tool manufacturer's "street cred" is based on the vast majority of user's experiences with their tools as well as one's personal experience. The vast majority of Festool users seem to be satisfied and, based on my personal experience with both the tools and service, I'm more than satisfied. Every tool manufacturer has their problem tools, tool failures, and some service failures as well. It's just not possible to make tools without these human failings. It's true there are cheaper drill/drivers, impact drivers, routers, etc. on the market which also give great tool life and service. It's worth every buyer's time and effort to research a tool and buy the one that suit his/her needs and is within the right price range.