Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
- Thread starter Louis@Godfreysjoinery
- Start date
HarveyWildes
Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2016
- Messages
- 984
WillB said:
I'm pretty much with [member=71257]WillB[/member] on this one. I just got a new Milwaukee 4 in 1 driver. In the process, I rounded up the three tools that it is replacing to sell or give away, along with two M12 batteries from 2010. Those batteries are still in good shape after 9+ years. Granted I don't use them every day, but the M12 tools in general are the most used battery powered tools in my shop.
At the same time, I love my Festool cordless track saw, despite the fact that the batteries lose charge on the shelf faster than any of my Milwaukee or DeWalt batteries. It allows me to break down sheet goods inside in Colorado winters without fighting with extension cords. Granted the Makita might do the job more reliably, but that would be another set of batteries that I don't have, and it's a fair amount of money just to run an experiment to see if it can compete with the Festool saw, even at Home Depot Black Friday prices.
In general, I've bought Festool tools that allow me to do something better - Domino for the functionality, saw, routers, and sanders for the integrated dust collection in an indoor shop in winter. If Festool doesn't allow me to do it better, then I buy something else. I got a Festool drill once and sold it pretty quickly when I realized that I kept reaching for my M12 stuff anyway.
"street cred."
how perfect! Its not a term we think of often when dealing with manufacturers, but so fitting here, well done...
Agreed on low price tools having failures too, of course. I think most agree in this thread, when u pay $150 for a tool and 2 batteries, which would be say 4-5x more with Festool brand, u expect much more both in terms of reliability, service and warranty. Based on this thead, often, that is not the case.
BTW, I too am curious about the Makita track saw as an alternative since it fits the Festool tracks. I read some ww magazine reviews where it scored tops, and maybe beat Festool.... cant recall if Festool was in the mix. I have lots of Makita corded tools collected through the years, never a single failure, which is truly remarkable. Japanese have excellent design and QC in general. The only reason I dont have their battery tools, already engaged in other platforms that have larger selection of tools. DW, Bosch and Milw selection is truly incredible. BTW, I think Bosch and Milw 12V are interchageable, I read it somewhere, and the batteries sure look the same.
I think Festool was ahead of the pack in innovation, first quality track saws, domino, Mega 2200 router, dust controlled sanders, etc. which allowed them premium prices as the tools were so unique and useful. Very similar to apple products. But there reaches a point, where competition starts to catch up, and the premium prices seems less justified. With apple, the genius stores, the USA support (rare for electronics), its remarkable how so many continue to remain loyal and pay the premium prices, which demonstrates the model can work. I wonder if Festool can continue design breakthrough tools too keep buyers coming... the Domino has been out for quite some time now. Only so many ways to cut and join wood
Also, is it just me...but a thread such as this one, 10+ years ago on the FOG would be blasted by loyal supporters, the OP would prob. be blacklisted, or maybe banned. Agreed?
Kudos to the moderators for allowing TRUE free speech...
Most of us here are NOT wishing Festool any bad luck, or smearing. Most of us will continue to buy Festool products in the future. But its nice to see fellow ww being honest with each other vs. blind loyalty or fearing censorship.
how perfect! Its not a term we think of often when dealing with manufacturers, but so fitting here, well done...
Agreed on low price tools having failures too, of course. I think most agree in this thread, when u pay $150 for a tool and 2 batteries, which would be say 4-5x more with Festool brand, u expect much more both in terms of reliability, service and warranty. Based on this thead, often, that is not the case.
BTW, I too am curious about the Makita track saw as an alternative since it fits the Festool tracks. I read some ww magazine reviews where it scored tops, and maybe beat Festool.... cant recall if Festool was in the mix. I have lots of Makita corded tools collected through the years, never a single failure, which is truly remarkable. Japanese have excellent design and QC in general. The only reason I dont have their battery tools, already engaged in other platforms that have larger selection of tools. DW, Bosch and Milw selection is truly incredible. BTW, I think Bosch and Milw 12V are interchageable, I read it somewhere, and the batteries sure look the same.
I think Festool was ahead of the pack in innovation, first quality track saws, domino, Mega 2200 router, dust controlled sanders, etc. which allowed them premium prices as the tools were so unique and useful. Very similar to apple products. But there reaches a point, where competition starts to catch up, and the premium prices seems less justified. With apple, the genius stores, the USA support (rare for electronics), its remarkable how so many continue to remain loyal and pay the premium prices, which demonstrates the model can work. I wonder if Festool can continue design breakthrough tools too keep buyers coming... the Domino has been out for quite some time now. Only so many ways to cut and join wood
Also, is it just me...but a thread such as this one, 10+ years ago on the FOG would be blasted by loyal supporters, the OP would prob. be blacklisted, or maybe banned. Agreed?
Kudos to the moderators for allowing TRUE free speech...
Most of us here are NOT wishing Festool any bad luck, or smearing. Most of us will continue to buy Festool products in the future. But its nice to see fellow ww being honest with each other vs. blind loyalty or fearing censorship.
Well I wouldn’t sell any of my Festools unless I found I rarely or never used them (and that’s my fault for buying them in the first place). All my Festools have performed well without a problem. The TS55 is the most accurate saw I own. The OF1400 and 1010 are the best routers I ever owned. The Domino...Well I guess most would agree it’s the most versatile tool for joinery; reliable and easy to use. The VacSys, for me, is one of the most useful tools in my shop. My sanders are, for me, without question, the best sanders I’ve owned with the best dust collection (although I have more than need). I’m not trying argue that people haven’t had problems with their products or service but, overall, I think that those are in the minority. Are Festool tools worth it. For me they always have been. Are they good at public relations and communicating with their users; I’d say not very good.
WillB said:
Not agreed to at all. Tomorrow I start my 11th year as a Moderator here. We have always encouraged polite freedom of speech. Those who couldn't follow that rule have been shown the door. In the past ten years I suspect that number is less than one hundred for their actions on the public side of the forum in threads. With the size of this forum that is a tiny number.
Peter Halle - Moderator
I want to add this: Over the years I have seen people go all in on tools. Sometimes it almost seemed like adrenaline based. Had to have the newest and be the first one to have one.
Woodworking, carpentry, and construction is about achieving the end result. There are many ways to get there ranging from hand tools to ultimate power tools.
What has really stuck out in my mind is that over the last 7 or 8 years is that there is more of an expectation that a higher priced tool will GUARANTEE a better result. And that it and the user experience will be PERFECT.
That is not reality. A tool may help you in your experience but just because you spent a bunch of money on it doesn't mean that it is now the tool equivalent of a high performance or self driving car. Buying a Ferrari doesn't make you a better driver. (Actually Ferarri might not even sell you a car without you proving you can drive that car.)
Most of my tools are Festool, but I don't jump off the diving board once a new tool is introduced. Tools are an expense and possibly an investment. I would urge everyone here to take your time doing research and doing an honest evaluation of what your needs and expectations are before you do that research. If it doesn't make sense to me, I ain't going to drop the coin for it not matter how cool or sexy it is.
Some might find these comments strange, but in reality that is similar to what the Festool "use it for thirty days" policy here in the US is about.
Go enjoy working with wood using whatever tools you find right for you. Life is short and if Festool fits into your life - GREAT - and we have lots of guys and gals here with experience to try and help with your questions. But if you decide on a Bosch, DeWalt, or other brand - go for it.
Peter
Woodworking, carpentry, and construction is about achieving the end result. There are many ways to get there ranging from hand tools to ultimate power tools.
What has really stuck out in my mind is that over the last 7 or 8 years is that there is more of an expectation that a higher priced tool will GUARANTEE a better result. And that it and the user experience will be PERFECT.
That is not reality. A tool may help you in your experience but just because you spent a bunch of money on it doesn't mean that it is now the tool equivalent of a high performance or self driving car. Buying a Ferrari doesn't make you a better driver. (Actually Ferarri might not even sell you a car without you proving you can drive that car.)
Most of my tools are Festool, but I don't jump off the diving board once a new tool is introduced. Tools are an expense and possibly an investment. I would urge everyone here to take your time doing research and doing an honest evaluation of what your needs and expectations are before you do that research. If it doesn't make sense to me, I ain't going to drop the coin for it not matter how cool or sexy it is.
Some might find these comments strange, but in reality that is similar to what the Festool "use it for thirty days" policy here in the US is about.
Go enjoy working with wood using whatever tools you find right for you. Life is short and if Festool fits into your life - GREAT - and we have lots of guys and gals here with experience to try and help with your questions. But if you decide on a Bosch, DeWalt, or other brand - go for it.
Peter
junk731
Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2008
- Messages
- 923
Peter Halle said:
This wasn't even the case before Peter and Seth were moderators and Matthew S owned the forum. Matthew was definitely a different guy and the forum was an experiment. The only people that were blacklisted or banned were the same people and agitators that were causing problems on all the woodworking forums. It was definitely a different group then but a lot has evolved in the world of forums over the last 13 years.
Cheese said:
The word "strongest" compasses quite a bit. Comparing the 18v platforms: Milwaukee has a very broad range of products but the batteries and electronics in Makita seems to be better.
About four years back, my brother bought an 18v Milwaukee package at the same time that I bought an 18v Makita package. The tools perform well enough that I would suggest people buy whichever fits better (i.e. ergonomics). The noticeable difference is in the batteries, with Makita having longer run times and shorter charge times.
Now in all fairness, Makita had issues with some of their early 18v batteries and have since made improvements.
Cheese
Member
rst said:
Thanks for that [member=25351]rst[/member] I went to Sherwin Williams yesterday and asked if the Graco cordless guns are ever put on sale or if they ever run a special. I was told sometimes... but not very often. [sad]
Funny...they had a huge Festool sign hanging from the ceiling and underneath it there were 8 small boxes of sandpaper for a DTS, an ETS 125 and a DX 93. That was it...no other Festool products in the entire store. [huh]
My [2cents]
Come Friday I will have been a member of the forum for 10 years for whatever that's worth and a Festool owner for a few years longer. I can't say that I am ready to ditch any of my kit. Which at this point in time is getting close to $20K worth. That said, the majority of it has been through the recon.
I was comfortable investing via recon because generally I am confident in the quality of the brand. Sure, I have had to send a few things in for warranty service, and a few others I asked if they would save us both the bother and just send me the warranteed part. For as little as I feel I have needed the service it has always been top shelf to me.
Their phone system on the other hand.....
My experience has always been that things go bad when very new. Meaning that if you can get some hours on it at the very beginning and it doesn't crap out, odds are pretty good that it won't ever in the warranty period. Generally, Festool has hit that mark for me. As such I was/am willing to take that risk to save some coin on the recons.
Some upthread have commented about crappy batteries. I must have dodged that bullet as I got 10 years out of my T15 batteries before they showed signs of weakness and replaced them. I now use them for the radio and flashlight as they (or maybe I) are much less demanding for that use.
Yeah, I got "smoked" on a Kapex, but it was still under warranty and they fixed/replaced stuff on it I didn't even know was wrong. Even if it hadn't, I made a small fortune with it at 1/3 the weight of my old Bosch. Which to me is HUGE.
So for what I have, I am confident in saying that I am basically a happy customer.
Now I can get to what I don't have.
I have heard this blather here on the FOG that `if Festool can't make a tool seven ways better than what exists in the current marketplace, they're not interested`. Yeah, sure, whatever.
Well there are enough outright garbage reciprocating saws in the market, Festool not making one..WITH DUST COLLECTION.. is an insult to their own engineering and should have been done at least a decade ago.
And let's talk about cordless, since we're coming up on 2020 after all.
Batteries: 2 form factors. A large one and a small one. Period. Full Stop.
Chargers: Should have a USB charging port. It's going to be 2020 and USB should be like Frank's RedHot!
As for cordless tools, the utter lack of offerings is truly pathetic. Seriously.
While I do not expect Festool to have all the offerings that DeWalt/Milwaukee/Ryobi has, the fact that they do not offer 10% of ANY of the three is truly disappointing. For several years now I have literally been dragging my feet waiting for Festool to "go cordless". I finally had to go DeWalt. Primarily due to cordless 'quart' caulking gun and the cordless nailers. Both taking the same battery. I will be buying the 20/60 batteries in the future for the sake of the Ah's.
The CT-SYS, WOW now wouldn't that be nice as a cordless?!?!? Could be set up like the DeWalt 20/60/120 MAX system. Cordless vac to go with the cordless sander. What a concept! Whoda Thunk!
I could go on and on about the cordless, but I am sure you guys get the point.
And since I am ranting, how about something that is just plain DUMB.
The radio and the flashlight,...why does the fact that I need to use a battery preclude me from needing to use the hook?
Whoever thought that up should be sent down to the loading dock to push boxes around.
The tripod for the syslite Duo:
I don't know about you guys but when I set that up, I don't like it on top of me where I can trip on it's very wide stance. You know what else I don't like tripping over? My chargers. 1+1=2.
That thing is just BEGGING for a shelf and a power strip! Oh, and guess where I usually hang my radio from?
Again, in the end I don't see myself giving up any of my Festool kit. Yet the kit is ALWAYS expanding and it is a shame that I can't expand it with Festool due SOLELY at this point to a lack of offerings
Come Friday I will have been a member of the forum for 10 years for whatever that's worth and a Festool owner for a few years longer. I can't say that I am ready to ditch any of my kit. Which at this point in time is getting close to $20K worth. That said, the majority of it has been through the recon.
I was comfortable investing via recon because generally I am confident in the quality of the brand. Sure, I have had to send a few things in for warranty service, and a few others I asked if they would save us both the bother and just send me the warranteed part. For as little as I feel I have needed the service it has always been top shelf to me.
Their phone system on the other hand.....
My experience has always been that things go bad when very new. Meaning that if you can get some hours on it at the very beginning and it doesn't crap out, odds are pretty good that it won't ever in the warranty period. Generally, Festool has hit that mark for me. As such I was/am willing to take that risk to save some coin on the recons.
Some upthread have commented about crappy batteries. I must have dodged that bullet as I got 10 years out of my T15 batteries before they showed signs of weakness and replaced them. I now use them for the radio and flashlight as they (or maybe I) are much less demanding for that use.
Yeah, I got "smoked" on a Kapex, but it was still under warranty and they fixed/replaced stuff on it I didn't even know was wrong. Even if it hadn't, I made a small fortune with it at 1/3 the weight of my old Bosch. Which to me is HUGE.
So for what I have, I am confident in saying that I am basically a happy customer.
Now I can get to what I don't have.
I have heard this blather here on the FOG that `if Festool can't make a tool seven ways better than what exists in the current marketplace, they're not interested`. Yeah, sure, whatever.
Well there are enough outright garbage reciprocating saws in the market, Festool not making one..WITH DUST COLLECTION.. is an insult to their own engineering and should have been done at least a decade ago.
And let's talk about cordless, since we're coming up on 2020 after all.
Batteries: 2 form factors. A large one and a small one. Period. Full Stop.
Chargers: Should have a USB charging port. It's going to be 2020 and USB should be like Frank's RedHot!
As for cordless tools, the utter lack of offerings is truly pathetic. Seriously.
While I do not expect Festool to have all the offerings that DeWalt/Milwaukee/Ryobi has, the fact that they do not offer 10% of ANY of the three is truly disappointing. For several years now I have literally been dragging my feet waiting for Festool to "go cordless". I finally had to go DeWalt. Primarily due to cordless 'quart' caulking gun and the cordless nailers. Both taking the same battery. I will be buying the 20/60 batteries in the future for the sake of the Ah's.
The CT-SYS, WOW now wouldn't that be nice as a cordless?!?!? Could be set up like the DeWalt 20/60/120 MAX system. Cordless vac to go with the cordless sander. What a concept! Whoda Thunk!
I could go on and on about the cordless, but I am sure you guys get the point.
And since I am ranting, how about something that is just plain DUMB.
The radio and the flashlight,...why does the fact that I need to use a battery preclude me from needing to use the hook?
Whoever thought that up should be sent down to the loading dock to push boxes around.
The tripod for the syslite Duo:
I don't know about you guys but when I set that up, I don't like it on top of me where I can trip on it's very wide stance. You know what else I don't like tripping over? My chargers. 1+1=2.
That thing is just BEGGING for a shelf and a power strip! Oh, and guess where I usually hang my radio from?
Again, in the end I don't see myself giving up any of my Festool kit. Yet the kit is ALWAYS expanding and it is a shame that I can't expand it with Festool due SOLELY at this point to a lack of offerings
Louis@Godfreysjoinery
Member
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2017
- Messages
- 24
Well I’m glad to see that there’s lots of talk regarding the tools.
I love some of the tools and have continued to buy their products, the most recent buy was the lr32 sys.
At one point I was making calls to the head office every few days to see what was going on with the tools.
I wrote a letter to the head office and It was great that Phil was Mark we’re able to help out and resolved all the issues I had and an agreement was reached between us.
Suffice to say I’ll continue to be a customer, I'll continue to buy their products and use them as they are incredibly accurate and easy to use when working correctly.
I love some of the tools and have continued to buy their products, the most recent buy was the lr32 sys.
At one point I was making calls to the head office every few days to see what was going on with the tools.
I wrote a letter to the head office and It was great that Phil was Mark we’re able to help out and resolved all the issues I had and an agreement was reached between us.
Suffice to say I’ll continue to be a customer, I'll continue to buy their products and use them as they are incredibly accurate and easy to use when working correctly.
sancho57
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
- Messages
- 7,089
[member=65505]Louis@Godfreysjoinery[/member]
For Festool UK, when you call try to get ahold of John Street. AThere is absolutely no one I know of in the UK that knows the tools better than him.
He is no longer a rep or trainer hes moved up in the company. He is reachable though.
Last time I talked to him I was TTS and axed him a question about 6mm collet for the 2200, the man quoted me the P/N right then and there.
anyway thought I pass it on
He is at the D&M Show and Toolfair also get a hold of Bob (I forget his last name), He is pretty good and always at the shows to
For Festool UK, when you call try to get ahold of John Street. AThere is absolutely no one I know of in the UK that knows the tools better than him.
He is no longer a rep or trainer hes moved up in the company. He is reachable though.
Last time I talked to him I was TTS and axed him a question about 6mm collet for the 2200, the man quoted me the P/N right then and there.
anyway thought I pass it on
He is at the D&M Show and Toolfair also get a hold of Bob (I forget his last name), He is pretty good and always at the shows to
Similar threads
