Are brushless motors more durable?

[Hawkinator]

Thanks for all the input.  It must be more expensive to build a brushless motor due to the need for the electronic controls, which is why you don't see them everywhere.  

I ran across slotless motors in reference to turntables that play vinyl LPs.  In that application, the platter needs to spin perfectly smoothly, and slotless motors provide that feature.  In a power drill, it might make the tool smoother and less likely to cam out (or able to bore a smoother hole), but that's conjecture on my part.

If any of you have seen the video where the guy puts his brushless Festool drill through a torture test by submerging it in sawdust, water, drywall mud, etc., he said its ability to survive is due to the brushless motor.  I don't know what would happen to a brushed motor, but it would be interesting.  
   

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Also related to Dean's post, spade bits aren't usually manufactured to handle hitting a nail as they bore thru wood.  There are specific auger bits designed to handle a nail hit.

 

[Deansocial]

Also related to Dean's post, spade bits aren't usually manufactured to handle hitting a nail as they bore thru wood.  There are specific auger bits designed to handle a nail hit.

like i said ken it was un fore seen as it completely buried. I would never try and drill a nail even with the proper bits

 

[jmbfestool]

So it sounds like the drills don't have a protective clutch in them.  Kind of surprising considering their cost.  I'm not totally sure of this, but I vaguely recall that my big Milwaukee 18v has a clutch for just such a possiblity.  My Makita rotary hammers definitely have it.

agreed

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Also related to Dean's post, spade bits aren't usually manufactured to handle hitting a nail as they bore thru wood.  There are specific auger bits designed to handle a nail hit.

like i said ken it was un fore seen as it completely buried. I would never try and drill a nail even with the proper bits

I understood.  I wasn't saying there was anything wrong in your choice of bit, just that there are bits specifically made to handle hitting metal while drilling wood.  They are pricey.  I've bought Greenlee auger bits for drilling different sized holes when running electrical wire and a number of times I've pulled the bit back out to find pieces of nails with no dulling or chippiing to the bit, thankfully.  I also like that pilot point on those bits for starting the hole quickly and accurately.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

If any of you have seen the video where the guy puts his brushless Festool drill through a torture test by submerging it in sawdust, water, drywall mud, etc., he said its ability to survive is due to the brushless motor.  I don't know what would happen to a brushed motor, but it would be interesting.    

Here's a link to the video. I don't think a brushed motor drill would fair well at all.

Festool Cordless Drill Myth?

 

[Deansocial]

Another spin to this. The motor albeit more durable requires electronics as stated in postd by others. My question is how durable are the electronics as alot of the problems i have had and heard about seem to relate to them and not the motor itself.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

So it sounds like the drills don't have a protective clutch in them.  Kind of surprising considering their cost.  I'm not totally sure of this, but I vaguely recall that my big Milwaukee 18v has a clutch for just such a possiblity.  My Makita rotary hammers definitely have it.

No drill on the market that I am aware of has the clutch on the bit-side of the drivetrain because the torque is too high to effectively control. Clutches, when they exist, are always between the motor and drivetrain because the torque is easier to overcome.

However, more importantly, these clutches are not there to protect the drill, but to protect the Screw being driven. Most (if not all) clutches are disabled when the drill is in "drill-mode" as opposed to "driving-mode". Even when a clutch does exist, it will not protect the drivetrain from a high impact hit, such as described above with the spade bit.

An impact driver is a completely different type of drivetrain. There is no clutch per se, it's just that the driving action is conveyed through a hammer motion which is intended to slip.

 

[Christian A.]

However, more importantly, these clutches are not there to protect the drill, but to protect the Screw being driven. Most (if not all) clutches are disabled when the drill is in "drill-mode" as opposed to "driving-mode". Even when a clutch does exist, it will not protect the drivetrain from a high impact hit, such as described above with the spade bit.

And Metabo's S-automatic torque limiting clutch or Hilti's active torque control (ATC) technology? What's the purpose of these features? I thought they are intended to protect neither the screw/drill bit nor the tool but the operator.

Agreed. I love the speed on the Protool drills, 3800 rpm vs my T15's 1500.

I (and a Protool employee I talked about with) don't understand why Festool drills don't have such a high speed. To my knowledge, Festool drills are primarily designed for cabinet makers while Protool focuses on carpenters. High speed is perfect for predrilling small screw holes - an application cabinet makers typically face.

Here's a link to the video. I don't think a brushed motor drill would fair well at all.

Festool Cordless Drill Myth?

How about the Panasonic TOUGH TOOL IP series?
From the videos I have seen, these tools seem pretty tough, indeed.

Greetings from Europe,

Christian

 

[Deansocial]

However, more importantly, these clutches are not there to protect the drill, but to protect the Screw being driven. Most (if not all) clutches are disabled when the drill is in "drill-mode" as opposed to "driving-mode". Even when a clutch does exist, it will not protect the drivetrain from a high impact hit, such as described above with the spade bit.

And Metabo's S-automatic torque limiting clutch or Hilti's active torque control (ATC) technology? What's the purpose of these features? I thought they are intended to protect neither the screw/drill bit nor the tool but the operator.

Agreed. I love the speed on the Protool drills, 3800 rpm vs my T15's 1500.

I (and a Protool employee I talked about with) don't understand why Festool drills don't have such a high speed. To my knowledge, Festool drills are primarily designed for cabinet makers while Protool focuses on carpenters. High speed is perfect for predrilling small screw holes - an application cabinet makers typically face.

Here's a link to the video. I don't think a brushed motor drill would fair well at all.

Festool Cordless Drill Myth?

How about the Panasonic TOUGH TOOL IP series?
From the videos I have seen, these tools seem pretty tough, indeed.

Greetings from Europe,

Christian

the pannasonic tough tools are brusless motors, very nice feeling drills too

 

[Timtool]

My t18 broke when i hit a hidden nail with a 32mm spade bit

When a spade bit, especially a 32 mm (1.25") bit, hits an obstruction, it comes to a dead stop almost instantly. However, all of the mechanical components of the drivetrain upstream from the bit are spinning at a much higher speed and have a much higher inertia (plus motor driven power). The resulting impact is so great that it will frequently rip the teeth off the most robust of gears. It's a similar impact that a SawStop tablesaw undergoes when its safety system engages. It won't necessarily destroy a drivetrain every time it happens, but the odds are very high, regardless of the brand in question.

i don't know but drills should at least be able to withstand their own force, mechanically or electronically.
i have had drills coming to a dead stop, and it was never the gear that suffered, but rather my wrists.
the size or type of bit shouldn't matter, you could attach an aircraft carrier to a drill and make it spin at 2000 rpm before making it stop instantly. it wouldn't make a difference, it's in this case the drill that couldn't resist internally to going to a dead stop. witch in a drills life will happen hundreds of times. i can only hope that T18 had a mechanical fabrication problem, and that it didn't was the electronics that failed.

on the farm we have modern made in Germany tractors stuffed with electronics, 95% of the time that the electronics notify you of a mechanical problem, it is the electronic captors that made a mistake, or broke down.
the less or the more simple the electronics, the better. especially for anything designed to be used more than a few years.

 

[Christian A.]

the pannasonic tough tools are brusless motors, very nice feeling drills too

The regular Panasonic tough tool drill/drivers are not equipped with brushless motors, only the impact drivers and wrenches are, as stated here.

Have a nice day,

Christian

 

[toolsareus]

If any of you have seen the video where the guy puts his brushless Festool drill through a torture test by submerging it in sawdust, water, drywall mud, etc., he said its ability to survive is due to the brushless motor.  I don't know what would happen to a brushed motor, but it would be interesting.  
   

I am slightly familiar with the RC hobby and they submerge brushed motors in water to break them in. here is a video...

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=mD3nWxmgX70[/flash]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bpUjTiMtHw[/flash]

plus water does not play well with CBs so it has more to do to it than just the brushless motor.

 

[woodie]

The Panasonic drill/drivers seem to be limited to 1400 rpm too. Even the 21.6 volt is limited to 1500 rpm. What's the benefit of the extra speed the protool offers?

The water break-in was interesting to see. I'm not sure I'll apply that to any of my tools in the near future though. Well at least not until I'm ready to sell them  [big grin].

 

[Ken Nagrod]

You can't put too much faith in RPM numbers.  A drill to drill comparison, one with a substantially lower RPM compared with let's say an actual 2000 RPM drill will give you a cleaner faster hole in wood with the higher speed.  They're never near that under load unless you have a drill that compensates for the load.

 

[RONWEN]

One thing that I would suggest to the lad breaking in his R/C motors in water is that WD-40 would be fine to displace traces of remaining water but it doesn't have the best longevity as a lubricant -- regular sewing machine oil is much better.