Best Tablesaw for Festoolians

[chughes]

  I've had a makita bench-top 8"  table saw on a ruseau table for 9 years.  With this system the saw drops in and the "table" adds stability and brings right side capacity two 30".  The table has its own fence, offers an out feed table, and a router table on the right side wing.  This system kicks but and has tested well over time. 

 

[Eli]

I know damn it. I love the rousseau fence and outfeed, not to mention they have an offsider router table. Unfortunately it just isn't worth shipping it here. Not good enough to convince me to get the Mak 2704 here. Love the electric brake though.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Dan; did you have a serious look at the Makita 2704? The built in table extensions (two of them, one at the back side and one on the right side, slides out with the fence) are two of the things that won us over, it handles large material with a rather small footprint. The hydraulic folding roller table is nice too. But most importantly it is a powerful yet smooth machine that cuts things down nicely and the fence is very rigid and has that nice little magnifying glass which makes trimming down to the last millimetre a breeze.

The price is right, considering what we have to shell out for a Precisio CS70 with the equivalent set up over here - you can get two Makita 2704s for that! And if you don't need the roller table you get two and a half of them. Also, the Makita is higher capacity, cutting 93mm vs 70mm for the Precisio CS70. 

For me, I could easily live with the CS70, just that it isn't perfect neither and the price tag is ... bordering to unjustifiable. I will do some assisting work to a shop that has one CS70 so I will try and see if there is something that definitely justifies the extra premium over the serious competition. After all, it is a table saw and not a unique product.

 

[Dan Clark]

Ping,

Thanks.  I have a much higher regard for Makita than I do for Bosch.  That said...

One thing that's not obvious to me is whether the 2704 has a riving knife.  They have someting called a "spreader" but it's not obvious if it functions as a riving knife.  I looked at the users manual and found it VERY dfficult to determine anything about the blade guard, pawls, and spreader.  It looks like the blade guard, anti-kickback pawls, and "spreader" are bolted together, and therefore inflexible and difficult to remove. 

In talking with many people about blade guards and riving knives, ALL (no exceptions) said that took them off and threw them away because they constantly got in the way.  This is related to all portable saws.  I can't tell, but it looks like the 2704 blade safety features fall into the "hassle" category.  If so, that's a major issue for me.  I don't want to be forced to choose between safety and usability.

While the Bosch 4100 may have limitations (like weight and quality), I found the blade guard, pawls, and riving knife easy to remove, reconfigure, and/or reinstall.  And, the riving knife moves up and down with the blade and stays close to the blade. 

What's your experience with the Makita's blade guard, pawls, and spreader?  Does the spreader work as a riving knife?  Work well?  Are these components easy to remove and reinstall?    How well do these features work for you?

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[Tinker]

Ping,

Thanks.  I have a much higher regard for Makita than I do for Bosch.  That said...

One thing that's not obvious to me is whether the 2704 has a riving knife.  They have someting called a "spreader" but it's not obvious if it functions as a riving knife.  I looked at the users manual and found it VERY dfficult to determine anything about the blade guard, pawls, and spreader.  It looks like the blade guard, anti-kickback pawls, and "spreader" are bolted together, and therefore inflexible and difficult to remove. 

In talking with many people about blade guards and riving knives, ALL (no exceptions) said that took them off and threw them away because they constantly got in the way.  This is related to all portable saws.  I can't tell, but it looks like the 2704 blade safety features fall into the "hassle" category.  If so, that's a major issue for me.  I don't want to be forced to choose between safety and usability.

While the Bosch 4100 may have limitations (like weight and quality), I found the blade guard, pawls, and riving knife easy to remove, reconfigure, and/or reinstall.  And, the riving knife moves up and down with the blade and stays close to the blade. 

What's your experience with the Makita's blade guard, pawls, and spreader?  Does the spreader work as a riving knife?  Work well?  Are these components easy to remove and reinstall?    How well do these features work for you?

Thanks,

Dan.

I fiind it somewhat of a turnoff that when i look for info on the Bosch bench saws, I can find no information about size of table, depth of cut, weight of saw.  All of those specs of specia interrest to me, and I am sure others looking at such saws.  When i go to DW and Makita, i can find out just about any thing I might want to know.  Why does Bosch limit information on there website reports?
Tinker

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Dan; I will look into the removing of the spreader / riving knife on the 2704 next time I am in the workshop. I think it is possible to do so without major hassle. The 2704 has on the whole been a pleasant experience in action. I can't remember if my colleague switched to a finer blade but the cut quality is very good.

As for the Makita Flipper I have used it some more over the past few days and I am pleased, however I will be switching to a finer cut blade. Quality of cut isn't as fine as the Festool TS55 but it still is very good and the machine has plenty of power. Trimming down oak was no problem although we are not talking log size here. I did the flip over to Mitre mode and it was easier than expected - release, flip and click and you are done. 

Parallel fence is short but reasonably sturdy, not as good as on the 2704 but locks well and though I haven't done any lenghty ripping session it seem to work fine for ripping. The slider is decent but yet again has not the same precision feel to it as the 2704. But it does the job.

The guy who bought the CMS from me called yesterday and was very pleased, way better than his Bosch table saw he thought and he was impressed by the quality of cut. As he should be.

 

[Tinker]

As for the Makita Flipper I have used it some more over the past few days and I am pleased, however I will be switching to a finer cut blade. Quality of cut isn't as fine as the Festool TS55 but it still is very good and the machine has plenty of power. Trimming down oak was no problem although we are not talking log size here. I did the flip over to Mitre mode and it was easier than expected - release, flip and click and you are done. 

Parallel fence is short but reasonably sturdy, not as good as on the 2704 but locks well and though I haven't done any lenghty ripping session it seem to work fine for ripping. The slider is decent but yet again has not the same precision feel to it as the 2704. But it does the job.

pingvin...
Can we see that flipper in action?  You and Eli have both told me how it flips.  i just do not visualize.  it may remain as NAINA, but it seems interresting.
Tinker

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Tinker: I will be picking up a new point and shoot digicam on Friday - seems like a photo opportunity, right?

 

[Tinker]

Sounds like a good plan.
Tinker

 

[Dan Clark]

Tinker: I will be picking up a new point and shoot digicam on Friday - seems like a photo opportunity, right?

Ping,

New digicams are always good!  And if you post nice pics, you may get one of Dan's famous awards:

;D

Dan.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Sorry for chiming in late, the picturetaking process was hampered by the fact that our job site was cleaned out by the "third shift" over a weekend some time ago - we lost a lot of tools and I was struck hard too.

Have had to restock the inventory and also lost that little camera - but hey; I got myself a better one and went on vacation, climbing in Thailand and left misery and winter behind.

Will try and get to it as I am building me a small open tooltray and will shoot the Flipper in action then. Also I look forward to using the Domino again - it has been a while.

All the best, Henrik

 

[Steve Jones]

I build kitchen cabinets for a living (using mostly festool) but kept my old Ryobi BT3000 table saw (yeah, I know - cheap and trashy hobby machine) It was their top of the line at the time, I brought it because the rails and table extensions can be easily removed to make the whole thing very easily portable. This table saw is no longer available from Ryobi but IS now carried by Sears and they have added a pretty neat folding cart for a base (for small shops the thing will fold up and store on one end), price about $450 I think.

My point is I have used this saw professionally for about 5 years and have had no problems with it, in a Festool shop, all I need a tablesaw for is ripping board stock, dust control is reasonable (4" port on back), has a nice cross cut sled included, everything is adjustable to keep it very accurate, machine has probably paid for itself about 100 times over for me.

Steve

 

[bruegf]

I have the same saw and inspite of all the times its been trashed, mine is quite accurate - I was able to get everything adjusted to within .002 - .003" when I first went through it.  It certainly has its limitations, but I still think that it's been a good saw for the money.

Fred

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi folks! As far as riving knives go, I saw that on Gary Katz's website he has instructions/suggestions on how to use some metalworking tools to grind and shape stock "spreaders"/blade guard holders into makeshift riving knives. I haven't tried it myself, but if the method works reasonably well I presume it would level the playing field of saws with or without riving knives. From what I've read here (http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1498&articleID=618394), it seems to me like most of the major manufacturers got together and agreed on a general form factor for new blade guards, and my guess is that the Bosch 4100 is just the first of a new generation of saws to feature the new guard/riving knife setup.

Personally, what I'm waiting for is a successor to the 2703 from Makita, something I can easily carry around the back side of a house through the snow and mud, throw on the ground and rip up a bunch of pressure treated lumber. I tried the DeWalt 745, but it had problems with the ice and snow and grenaded on me. I'd also be open to a Bosch of a similar size to the 2703 or DW745...... For more sophisticated work I'd use a TS55 and maybe a Sawstop Contractor's Saw (rumoured to be coming sometime this spring!!).

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Here is the link to Gary's riving knife mod. Gary modified his Bosch 4000 saw, the Bosch is one of the very few saws that the guard travels with the blade, up, down and on the bevel. So this allows the splitter, once modified, to become a true riving knife that moves with the blade. Most other saws can't be modified in this way.

  It is my understanding that it is OSHA that is changing its safety standards for tablesaws. Manufactures will be changing designs to meet the new standards, things like riving knives and blade brakes, I'm not sure what else. If anyone knows the real scope let me know.

  I'm still looking for a saw, right now I have a Makita 2703 that I am unhappy with.

 

[dltflt]

I've been pondering the idea of having no cabinet saw when I get the TS75.  My shop is small and I currently have a cabinet saw and it is a PIA to pull ou every time I want to build something.  Jesse gave me my answer, I need to keep it for an assembly table.  I do that on regular basis now.

 

[alg]

Dan,

have you made a decision on table saw? I'm trying to decide whether to jump on a big Steel City cabinet saw (would take up a lot of room in my 1-aisle garage shop). I may just wait for the new granite tops that have riving knife.

Al

 

[Dan Clark]

Al,

I'm still waiting.  Every time I think I need a new table saw, I figure out a workaround.  Hopefully someone will introduce the "right" table saw about the time that I truly need one.

Dan.

 

[Corwin]

Hopefully someone will introduce the "right" table saw about the time that I truly need one.

Dan.

Would be nice if the "right" saw were UL approved   
That would add a little grease to the slope.

 

[festoolfan1000]

The right saw is the Dewalt 745. I fought the no table saw thing for a while. I purchased the Dewalt, thinking I could always return it if it didn't make things easier. I haven't returned it.

G