Best Tablesaw for Festoolians

[festoolfan1000]

I visited the Aussie tool sites that sold the CMS to see if it was possible to have them shipped over to Canada. It does not appear that it is. BUT irregardless after the conversion to Canadian dollars not including shipping fees. Festool expects that users are willing to pay over $1700 for a small table saw with a less then 2" cutting capacity, no rip fence and a tiny sliding table??? Dear lord, how much do carpenters make down there? As a remodelling contractor I could never see a cost justification for that.

I doubt the fact that the CMS is not available here has anything to do with UL approval.

 

[dltflt]

Eric,
I like the Biesemeyer riving knife.  It snaps in and out.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Don, on the dw745? or can it be adapted to any table saw? 

 

[dltflt]

Eric,
I looked and can only find them for cabinet saws

 

[Eli]

I visited the Aussie tool sites that sold the CMS to see if it was possible to have them shipped over to Canada. It does not appear that it is. BUT irregardless after the conversion to Canadian dollars not including shipping fees. Festool expects that users are willing to pay over $1700 for a small table saw with a less then 2" cutting capacity, no rip fence and a tiny sliding table??? Dear lord, how much do carpenters make down there? As a remodelling contractor I could never see a cost justification for that.

I doubt the fact that the CMS is not available here has anything to do with UL approval.

It is expensive, but quite nice with the LA-50 fence and an outfeed and side extension table.

 

[graphex]

So I broke down last week and got a DW 745 last week with an Amana blade. So far, I'm rather unimpressed with the fence. Has anyone tried the rousseau table? The fence was more square than the bosh 4100 I looked at (which was just as skewed one way at the beginning and the other way at the end as the one Matthew tried) but the fence is just too short for what I'm working with right now.

I'm ripping some 2.5x3x60 maple down to 2.5x2.5x60 and don't get anything near a finish cut with the tiny fence. Looking at the specs on the Rousseau, it does add something like 6-8 inches of fence, and probably a better fence too. I'd love to hear if anyone has had real life experience.

It was good that the 745 can at least cut through the solid 2.5" thick hard maple, and I expect I'll do similar rips in the future - that is why I got the saw. With its fence though, I'm better off doing a few passes through my 735 planer. It is pretty amazing to see the difference between the 735 planer - which is really a nice machine - to the 745 saw, which seems much less well built.

 

[Eli]

The rousseau fence isn't THAT much longer. You don't like the Dewalt huh? I liked it. The 745 has the geared fence with the micro adjust right? And the flippy thing on the fence?

 

[Michael Kellough]

So I broke down last week and got a DW 745 last week with an Amana blade....but the fence is just too short for what I'm working with right now.

I'm ripping some 2.5x3x60 maple down to 2.5x2.5x60 and don't get anything near a finish cut with the tiny fence.

How does the length of the fence affect the quality of the cut? If the stock is straight Even a short fence should work fine if the stock is fed tight to the fence. Using a finger board to help with that?

If the fence locks down square enough to bother with, add an auxiliary fence to lengthen it if it's straightness of the ripped stock you're after.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Graphex,  I dimensioned some scrap so that it fit into the metal section of the fence and then drove screws through the back into the auxiliary fence on the other side.  It worked well enough for what I was using it for at the time.  The plastic pieces can only be taken off so many times before they begin to compromise the entire set up and make it very wobbly.  I will be getting the rousseau set up asap and will post comments and pics.  I currently only use this saw when I can't feasibly use TS75 on site, usually ripping long lengths of pre-primed trim for exterior.  One man feeds and another gently excepts.  Works with 16 footers.  No riving knife or splitter.  Benchdog featherboards - 2 on top and one before blade.  I want to say that in one of the Gary Katz videos I have, I saw a featherboard on the far side of the blade, possibly not as tight?  I have been told that double featherboards on table is very dangerous and can see why, but if Gary was doing it?  If I am wrong about this please deliver me the thrashing I deserve.  I use a forrest blade and have found the saw to be strong enough to rip through anything.  Please let me know what you think and come to find out, because my guys normally use this saw more then me and I am constantly trying to make it safer.  My local woodcraft isn't carrying the Sawstop saw, so I can't find out if the riving knife could be fabricated to fit, although I still believe it could be by the looks of it, maybe check pic in posts above?

 

[Brice Burrell]

   .........I want to say that in one of the Gary Katz videos I have, I saw a featherboard on the far side of the blade, possibly not as tight?  I have been told that double featherboards on table is very dangerous and can see why, but if Gary was doing it?........ 

  Eric, I think we must not fully understand what Gary is doing, because my experience is not to put any pressure on the stock behind the blade. Even if he's not applying pressure to the stock it can still be dangerous. I have the utmost respect for Gary, however, I don't agree with him on this issue.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Brice, I think Gary is the man and totally respect everything he has done for the advancement of the industry, especially safety.  I just got all of his videos for xmas.  I was just wondering if anyone knew something I didn't about why he would have had that set up.  I usually end up watching his videos when I can't fall asleep and maybe am wrong.  I probably was spying on something in the background that he wasn't even talking about, I do that to you also.  I will let you know next time I watch that video and see what context it is in.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

A featherboard after the cut?  Something seems wrong here.  So you would be pushing the offcut into the fence and squeezing the kerf shut?  What would be the benefit to that?
Matthew

 

[graphex]

Graphex,  I dimensioned some scrap so that it fit into the metal section of the fence and then drove screws through the back into the auxiliary fence on the other side. The plastic pieces can only be taken off so many times before they begin to compromise the entire set up and make it very wobbly.

That is probably the way to go; I was hesitant to drill some scrap directly in to the fence, and I didn't see a clamping option for the 'fence lengthening piece' because the stock I was cutting was as tall as the fence so there wasn't really a place where a clamp would be out of the way. I'm thinking that some stock with a (Domino) mortise with a festool rail clamp in it might do the trick. I'm a bit leery about bending the fence though - it isn't terribly strong.

This was my first use of the saw, so hopefully some home made additions will improve my feelings towards it.

I will be getting the rousseau set up asap and will post comments and pics.  I currently only use this saw when I can't feasibly use TS75 on site, usually ripping long lengths of pre-primed trim for exterior.  One man feeds and another gently excepts.  Works with 16 footers.  No riving knife or splitter.

Looking forward to your impression of the rousseau. My friend and I were doing about the same thing ripping the maple, but I had the crappy guard and splitter on. I hate taking it off, especially when it is my first use of the tool and don't really know what to expect, but the anti-kickback pawls started grabbing the thin offcut and forcing it towards the back of the blade. Makes a horrible sound and I can't imagine it is at all safe. I really want to fashion a proper riving knife for this thing now.

 
Benchdog featherboards - 2 on top and one before blade.  ... My local woodcraft isn't carrying the Sawstop saw, so I can't find out if the riving knife could be fabricated to fit, although I still believe it could be by the looks of it, maybe check pic in posts above?

Yeah, featherboards would have helped significantly - they'll probably be my next purchase as I'll use them even if I get a rousseau table/fence.

I think the 745 will eventually be a useful tool for me, but you always want that first use to impress you with a new tool. With at least one featherboard and a longer fence, I'm sure I would have had a better first impression. It did get through the wood with no more trouble than the TS-75, which says it at least has good power.

 

[ericbuggeln]

graphex, agree with everything you say.  I removed everything once I realized how dangerous it was.  Needless to say I was annoyed by the saw out of the box, but for some reason was not willing to give up.  The saw has power and weighs nothing and is easy to carry around.  The rousseau set up gives it everything it lacks, except for riving knife.  If I were you I would bend the prawls off the splitter and remove the guard.  I have since lost my splitter, but remember it being wider then the kerf.  You may want to try to alter that down with a grinder?  My finger is on the trigger for the rousseau

 

[graphex]

If I were you I would bend the prawls off the splitter and remove the guard.  I have since lost my splitter, but remember it being wider then the kerf.  You may want to try to alter that down with a grinder?  My finger is on the trigger for the rousseau

I got a 1/8" or so amana blade (haven't even spun the included blade) so the splitter is much smaller than the kerf. It is also wobbly and traps the offcut, so I think the thing is not meant to be used, and meant to merely comply with UL. Sucks when a safety device makes the thing less safe... I'd be happy to use a guard like that if it helped safety.

I will get a SawStop riving knife if they have any at Tool Zone tomorrow and see what I run in to. May be too much time in front of the Dremel to worry about, or perhaps too wide to fit in the slot that holds it in place. We'll have to see...

 

[graphex]

OK, so couldn't find a riving knife replacement yet, but I did get a featherboard. Still hate this saw.

The featherboard I got (a Bench Dog) recommends it be set 2" from the beginning of the blade, and that the splitter part which locks it in the channel be towards the infeed side. Neither of those are possible with the tiny table - I had to have the featherboard hanging off the front of the table with the split side of the rail nearest the blade and it within 1/4" of the blade or it wouldn't even be in the channel!

Then I tried one rip (thankfully 1/16" wider than I needed it or I'd be eating maple!) and it did OK until the featherboard release point but had a 32nd-to-16th blade gouge in it the moment the featherboard released. There is just no way/nowhere to put pressure up against the fence. And it tossed the 1/4" offcut pretty roughly behind me. A better push stick may help here - I was using the included one. (I've got a better one on the way from woodpeckers)

I know I'm not the best in terms of technique here, but I'm trying my best with what I have. I'm sure that many people could get decent results ripping a 2.5x2.75x60" down to 2.5x2.5". Unfortunately, I'm getting more and more afraid using this $#%* thing and I'm worried that I'll sacrifice a finger before I get a good rip out of it.

After that bad experience with the first piece, I went back to my thickness planer and did several passes to bring my pieces down to the 2.5" width I wanted. They're a bit parallelogram, but at least I still have all my fingers!

If I had a Jointer, I could have done better, and if I'd had an MFT, I could have found a way to rip there too. The problem here it that the 745 just takes forever to eat through the wood, and so much pressure is necessary to feed while avoiding kickback, it just seems a horrible place to be, near this saw.

To its credit, I mitered some 1" thick pieces of pine with this saw and it did well. If I had the Rousseau table, I could mitre the 2.5^2x60 stock down to length, but that is pretty impossible with the tiny built in table.

I guess I'm hopeful that this saw will tide me over until Festool announces they're bringing the Precisio to the US. Then I'll be glad I didn't spend more on a table saw.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

...I will get a SawStop riving knife if they have any at Tool Zone tomorrow and see what I run in to. May be too much time in front of the Dremel to worry about, or perhaps too wide to fit in the slot that holds it in place. We'll have to see...

Please report back on what you do.  Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I'm very doubtful about getting a SawStop riving knife fitted onto your saw.

Not sure if this helps, but look here (DeWalt DW745):
[attachthumb=1]

And here (SawStop):
[attachthumb=2]

Matthew

 

[ericbuggeln]

graphex, everything i've heard says that dewalt shouldn't even be putting out that push stick b/c if you slip your hand is going right into the blade.  I have a gripper and i made one that looks like thishttp://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5090.  As far as the featherboard you can't follow the directions and must attach so that it fits your situation.  I will be using this saw a bunch this next week at my humble shop and will be trying to figure some things out, i'll let you know.  What blade are you using, is the fence perfectly aligned?

matt, those are awesome pics for descriptive purposes.  Does the sawstop riving knife slip into the area above the brake and then get tightened?  That was my only thinking, that it might be able to be fabricated to fit into dewalts?  They don't have the sawstop at my local woodcraft.  Have you ever heard anything about MJ splitter

 

[nickao]

I have used use the MJ splitter. The metal - dual version for a thin blade. It's a hassle to set up just right, but does work. It's no riving knife though.

If the lumber is thick and sits  a lot higher than the MJ there is still a chance the lumber can pinch above the height of the MJ if the wood twist from internal stresses, etc. So it is not fool proof by any means.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Thats pretty much what I thought heard, does anyone want to quit your day job and start an after market riving knife company?  Someone obviously has to do it.