Best tub style for combo shower/tub in bathroom remodel
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ryanjg117
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One more slight design change I made: extending the "headrest shelf" all the way along the left wall:
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I think this will also make tiling a bit simpler.
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I think this will also make tiling a bit simpler.
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ryanjg117
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One question on the combo shower fixtures: I haven't carefully located these individual shower fixtures on the wall yet. If using the tub as a tub (not a shower), I'm guessing the current position of the valve is too high? It needs to be brought down closer to the tub spout, otherwise one would have to get up and out of the bath to top it off. Right?
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"put a timer on the fan, and if you're able, think about a silent remote-motor fan, which really is alot quieter."
I don't remember who makes them, maybe Panasonic and/or Broan, but there are a couple model vent fans that have humidity sensors built in and will start/stop automagically as well as by timer.
If it were me I would remove this section of wall and slide he tub over to the left, dragging the head wall with it and giving you another 8 inches for the toilet. That flat surface will collect water and be a potential leak point, cleaning headache, and maintenance nuisance.
Also, why don't more use the End-of-post expandable thumbnail option when uploading photos. It's so easy to click once and see the full size image, then click again and you're back in the thread. The other image options all make more work of it and don't offer any advantage in viewing that I can see.
I don't remember who makes them, maybe Panasonic and/or Broan, but there are a couple model vent fans that have humidity sensors built in and will start/stop automagically as well as by timer.
If it were me I would remove this section of wall and slide he tub over to the left, dragging the head wall with it and giving you another 8 inches for the toilet. That flat surface will collect water and be a potential leak point, cleaning headache, and maintenance nuisance.
Also, why don't more use the End-of-post expandable thumbnail option when uploading photos. It's so easy to click once and see the full size image, then click again and you're back in the thread. The other image options all make more work of it and don't offer any advantage in viewing that I can see.
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Cheese
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ryanjg117 said:
Right you are...especially if you're using the tub the majority of the time.
I recessed our vanity and really like it, it makes the bathroom seem larger. Spend the extra $$ for electricity in the vanity, you'll not regret it.
Consider a wall mount toilet, they tuck in closer to the wall giving you additional room and they make cleaning the floor super easy, no getting down on your knees. To have to clean that small section of floor trapped between the toilet and the wall will get old in a hurry.
Panasonic makes extremely quiet fans, so a timer is almost mandatory. I hook them up to a Leviton timer...your choice of 10-20-30 or 60 minutes.
https://na.panasonic.com/us/home-an...ntilation-indoor-air-quality/ventilation-fans
https://www.leviton.com/en/products...ort=@wcs_site_tree_rank ascending&layout=card
Consider Schluter Jolly for the floor transitions. Again super easy to clean.
https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Profiles/For-Walls/Edging-&-Outside-Wall-Corners/Schluter®-
JOLLY/p/JOLLY?facets=false
https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Profiles/Cove-shaped-Profiles/Schluter®-DILEX-AHK/p/DILEX_AHK?facets=false
Consider Schluter Ditra-Heat for the floor...now's the time.
https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Floor-Warming/Schluter®-DITRA-HEAT/p/DITRA_HEAT?facets=false
If you decide to eventually install shower doors, consider putting in some recessed lighting over the bath. Once those doors go up you'll wonder where the lighting went.
ryanjg117
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Cheese said:
Was planning to go with Schluter for the waterproof membrane and shower niche. Didn't know about the tile profiles but that definitely opens up a lot more tiling options (other than the limited styles with bullnose profiles).
After watching this installation video, I've completely given up on the idea of in-wall toilets. Also, I love Toto, but having the entire tank system in-wall makes me wonder how long until I'll be ripping out the drywall to replace a component. Love the idea of being able to clean under it easily, but I think the skirted style is a nice middleground between "easier to clean" and "simple to install."
ryanjg117
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Bob D. said:
I like the idea of a backrest, makes it way more comfortable and opens up bath pillow options, lol. I can easily slope it so I'm not worried about water build-up. Not shown in the rendering, but I'll use one of Cheese's radiused tile profiles to avoid that sharp 90 outside edge.
Been working on a small bath for a friend. I used backer board and Laticrete Hydroban waterproofing. Waterproofed the whole room since I had 5 gallons of Hydroban. I used ceramic niches instead of tiled ones. They come in different sizes. Liked the look for this bath and tile. You might want to consider using epoxy grout. It’s a bit more work but not that difficult to work with.
Wood is just a crude mock up. I’ve linked the niches but not sure if the link is allowed.
https://shower-shelf.com/
The Toto toilet and separate Washlet has the advantage of being able to service Washlet and not lose toilet function. Toto has a flat fee of $175/free shipping both ways. Great customer service. Get the toilet with hole for plumbing/wiring for Washlet on top. Cleaner look.
Wood is just a crude mock up. I’ve linked the niches but not sure if the link is allowed.
https://shower-shelf.com/
The Toto toilet and separate Washlet has the advantage of being able to service Washlet and not lose toilet function. Toto has a flat fee of $175/free shipping both ways. Great customer service. Get the toilet with hole for plumbing/wiring for Washlet on top. Cleaner look.
ryanjg117
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Some more design tweaks:
- Changing from Kohler Forte to Bancroft (saw both in the showroom and mom liked the latter)
- Switched the shower controls to a thermostatic valve, which has two exits, one that goes down to the tub spout
- Added a dedicated volume control for the tub, right down near the spout (addresses the positioning issue of only having one volume control and it being too high for tub use, but too low for shower use)
- Added a transfer valve up top to switch between showerhead, handshower, or both at the same time
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Here's my criticism from 30+ yrs in the kitchen/bath biz. (constructive, I hope - but YMMV)
If you want to run two heads at once, you're gonna need a hefty supply line and a lot of hot water. Large tank or high cap. tankless.
I'd suggest a smaller head on the handshower. It will look less cluttered and do you really need two rainshower sized heads ? ? ? If you want to use that handshwr bar as a grab bar , you better put solid blocking in the wall behind the mounting points , cement board and tile will not be sturdy enough.
You're lighting plan is iffy. As shown , it'll create shadows on top of your head while standing at the vanity. The pools of light in the tub end will be not be pleasing either.
You've also mentioned current location of ceiling fan and floor vents won't need to be changed. While providing a cost savings, if your fan isn't over or in real close prox. to the tub - it isn't going to do it's job. I'll also wager what you have is woefully undersized for the space AND its duct work is poor - adding to the poor performance.
Timers are great for fans because even properly ; they need to run for a bit of time after your bathing finishes in order to exhaust the humidity. They are waaaaaaaaay more reliable than built in humidity sensors embedded in bath fans. Only drawback is you gotta train your brood to use them.
Is it more or less trendy than subway tile ?
Be aware that many only provide supplemental light and aren't bright enough for primary lighting - especially the cheap ones.
I'd strongly suggest making you're niches larger / more numerous. Especially if you're bathing the kiddos. Also consider lowering one for when you use the tub. You're already thinking about the tub control height, but forgot about the bath soaps, candles, loofas, razors, ect....... ?
Re: wall mounted toilets - There's no free lunch ! You've still got to have space / sq. footage for the tank. While they are marginally less deep than a standard toilet, they still require 4" and preferably 6" of wall to conceal the tank. You're just transfering that footprint from one place to another. If that wall is an outside wall ....... fuhgeddaboudit
All wear parts are replaceable without removing the wall covering.
If you're DIYing this I will also recommend a different approach than Kerdi. I'm a big fan of Kerdi and have it in several of my personal baths. But it has a steeper learning curve than other products/ systems. I would suggest using liquid applied waterproofing like Hydroban or KBRS showerseal -or- Aquadefense which is the same stuff. Just not Redguard. I'd paint that over GoBoard which is foam based like Kerdiboard. Kerdiboard would be easier too, though not as fast and a bit more expensive. Wedi is also good but even more expensive than that.
Bottom line is Kerdi membrane is a bit overkill for a tub/shower alcove. Moreover , it is a bit finicky for the first timer to properly mix the thinset to the right consistency, trowel it on fast enough and add the sheet before it starts to flash off, and smooth out the sheets. Then there's the inevitable corner buildup that happens no matter how good and experienced you are - which creates issues to deal with when you go to lay tile. It's exacerbated when using small tile.
None of this is impossible, but it's time consuming and frustrating for the neophyte. Using a caulk gun and putty knife to smooth sealant in screw holes , then painting/ rolling on thick paint and imbedding thin 5-6" fabric that folds easily and keeps a crease into corners is well within most people's wheelhouse even with no prior experience.
If your vents are in the floor, you may like these:https://www.contractorsdirect.com/chameleon-vent-registers
- or -
https://ariavent.com/
If you want to run two heads at once, you're gonna need a hefty supply line and a lot of hot water. Large tank or high cap. tankless.
I'd suggest a smaller head on the handshower. It will look less cluttered and do you really need two rainshower sized heads ? ? ? If you want to use that handshwr bar as a grab bar , you better put solid blocking in the wall behind the mounting points , cement board and tile will not be sturdy enough.
You're lighting plan is iffy. As shown , it'll create shadows on top of your head while standing at the vanity. The pools of light in the tub end will be not be pleasing either.
You've also mentioned current location of ceiling fan and floor vents won't need to be changed. While providing a cost savings, if your fan isn't over or in real close prox. to the tub - it isn't going to do it's job. I'll also wager what you have is woefully undersized for the space AND its duct work is poor - adding to the poor performance.
Timers are great for fans because even properly ; they need to run for a bit of time after your bathing finishes in order to exhaust the humidity. They are waaaaaaaaay more reliable than built in humidity sensors embedded in bath fans. Only drawback is you gotta train your brood to use them.
And you're worried about this why ?
Is it more or less trendy than subway tile ?
Be aware that many only provide supplemental light and aren't bright enough for primary lighting - especially the cheap ones.
I'd strongly suggest making you're niches larger / more numerous. Especially if you're bathing the kiddos. Also consider lowering one for when you use the tub. You're already thinking about the tub control height, but forgot about the bath soaps, candles, loofas, razors, ect....... ?
Re: wall mounted toilets - There's no free lunch ! You've still got to have space / sq. footage for the tank. While they are marginally less deep than a standard toilet, they still require 4" and preferably 6" of wall to conceal the tank. You're just transfering that footprint from one place to another. If that wall is an outside wall ....... fuhgeddaboudit
All wear parts are replaceable without removing the wall covering.
If you're DIYing this I will also recommend a different approach than Kerdi. I'm a big fan of Kerdi and have it in several of my personal baths. But it has a steeper learning curve than other products/ systems. I would suggest using liquid applied waterproofing like Hydroban or KBRS showerseal -or- Aquadefense which is the same stuff. Just not Redguard. I'd paint that over GoBoard which is foam based like Kerdiboard. Kerdiboard would be easier too, though not as fast and a bit more expensive. Wedi is also good but even more expensive than that.
Bottom line is Kerdi membrane is a bit overkill for a tub/shower alcove. Moreover , it is a bit finicky for the first timer to properly mix the thinset to the right consistency, trowel it on fast enough and add the sheet before it starts to flash off, and smooth out the sheets. Then there's the inevitable corner buildup that happens no matter how good and experienced you are - which creates issues to deal with when you go to lay tile. It's exacerbated when using small tile.
None of this is impossible, but it's time consuming and frustrating for the neophyte. Using a caulk gun and putty knife to smooth sealant in screw holes , then painting/ rolling on thick paint and imbedding thin 5-6" fabric that folds easily and keeps a crease into corners is well within most people's wheelhouse even with no prior experience.
If your vents are in the floor, you may like these:https://www.contractorsdirect.com/chameleon-vent-registers
- or -
https://ariavent.com/
I used to be a portrait photographer. When I see a well-posed family photo, nicely printed and framed but the younger family members are wearing bell bottom jeans, I think, "Ouch!" That hurts. That totally dates the photo.
Similarly, I would avoid the "bell bottom jeans" of the home design world. You see it (I see it in my house) in the "golden oak" kitchen cabinets.
You are going to see it in all the gray painted rooms and cabinets.
And possibly those recessed medicine cabinets, and almost certainly mirrors with lights in the mirror. It will make an old bathroom look old--even if perfectly maintained.
Similarly, I would avoid the "bell bottom jeans" of the home design world. You see it (I see it in my house) in the "golden oak" kitchen cabinets.
You are going to see it in all the gray painted rooms and cabinets.
And possibly those recessed medicine cabinets, and almost certainly mirrors with lights in the mirror. It will make an old bathroom look old--even if perfectly maintained.
Sorry, but recessed medicine cabinets with LED lights are not even remotely close to Bell Bottoms. They may -or-may not prove to be a fad of the 20's. It's hard to say right now as they've just gained widespread market penetration.
My current house was built in the 50's and had recessed medicine cabinets in every bath. So did my childhood home that was built in the 70's. That home also had mirrors that were lit on the perimeter ala Hollywood and they seem to also be making a comeback:
https://www.wayfair.com/decor-pillo...-hollywood-glam-vanity-mirror-w003239974.html
SO, I'd strongly argue recessed med cabs are not trendy nor are perimeter lit mirrors. And even if they are, If that's what you like - so what ?
My current house was built in the 50's and had recessed medicine cabinets in every bath. So did my childhood home that was built in the 70's. That home also had mirrors that were lit on the perimeter ala Hollywood and they seem to also be making a comeback:
https://www.wayfair.com/decor-pillo...-hollywood-glam-vanity-mirror-w003239974.html
SO, I'd strongly argue recessed med cabs are not trendy nor are perimeter lit mirrors. And even if they are, If that's what you like - so what ?
mino
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A good, functional, design 100s of years old will never become "fad" as people would keep using it for its functional benefits. Only grandually improving on it.xedos said:
On the other hand, things of purely cosmetic nature are often tied to the times.
That said, what is wrong with a room arranged in, say, obvious 60's styling IF it is made of quality materials? IMO absolutely nothing. Some would pay dearly to get that!
Now, the problem with most 60s and 70s setups was the prevalence of "new" materials like (then) new plastics and new paints which -themselves- were designed for a limited shelf life and which -physically- do not age well.
Aka if it was made like kitsch at the time - it will be all the more kitsch a decade later. If it was made from crappy material, well, it will just break appart, yellow, etc. No matter the maintenance.
But if it was made quality at the time - for a bathroom this first and foremost means CLEANABLE, maintainable, durable, in that order - then it will look good even 50yrs down the line.
Besides, that a prospective buyer will "notice" that the room is old-fit? Sure. But let me tell you one secret. There are buyers who will LOVE an old-and-maintained-like-new MUCH more than "new-with-unknown-quality".
The thing is, with new, you have no idea how well it is made - any (construction) defects from the refit did not have the time to show themselves. This is not a one-way street of "looks new so will sell for more". Far from it. Friend was a realty agent for a decade, and the first thing she advised me - when you see a new refit anywhere, inspect twice as much, "they" were surely trying to hide something ...
It's not so much a secret as it is a tiny fraction of the home buying public in the USA. And when in comes to selling real estate quickly for top dollar - you want to appeal to the most and biggest audience. Waiting around for that one buyer who appreciates and or can afford what you have done is not a sound strategy.
Europeans in general have a different mindset when it comes to housing. They don't move as often and can deal with less space in their dwellings. Americans want bigger, newer and more shiny homes. And they will pick up and move to get that. So, trendy and new is what sells over great design and quality materials. Sad, but true.
squall_line
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Chalk me up as someone that fit's [member=61254]mino[/member] 's description of a buyer: we bought our 1961-built home about 2 1/2 years ago. It was one of the few homes we looked at that was kept mostly original and also quite well maintained. I fell in love with the original tile bathrooms and mosaic tile bathroom floors, my wife loved the slightly-more-recent wallpaper in some of the rooms, and we both have grown to adore the wallpaper mural in the family room.
I'm at odds with my own desires to keep things as original as possible as we have to tear out some walls in the bathroom from a cheap tub insert that failed and ruined the wall board behind the tile. Eventually at least one bathroom will likely end up with a wall with foil-accented wallpaper.
Many of the homes we went through that were built in the 90s were cramped and laid out funny. Plenty of homes we walked through were poorly maintained or the bathrooms and kitchens had been gutted in the last 10-15 years and replaced with 90's-2000's materials and style, which felt completely out of place.
For a 1961 home, it has a lot of atypical features, among which are a full master bath (instead of a 1/2 or 3/4), two living rooms, and a foyer. Most of the rest is typical early-60's MidMod ranch goodness, with a massive partially-finished basement to boot.
We saw it on day 2 of the listing and had our offer accepted on day 4, but I believe we were the only offer. It appraised over asking, but we got the tax assessment lowered about 10% to bring it in line with what we paid. This was back in late 2019 before things got crazy stupid in the market.
I'm at odds with my own desires to keep things as original as possible as we have to tear out some walls in the bathroom from a cheap tub insert that failed and ruined the wall board behind the tile. Eventually at least one bathroom will likely end up with a wall with foil-accented wallpaper.
Many of the homes we went through that were built in the 90s were cramped and laid out funny. Plenty of homes we walked through were poorly maintained or the bathrooms and kitchens had been gutted in the last 10-15 years and replaced with 90's-2000's materials and style, which felt completely out of place.
For a 1961 home, it has a lot of atypical features, among which are a full master bath (instead of a 1/2 or 3/4), two living rooms, and a foyer. Most of the rest is typical early-60's MidMod ranch goodness, with a massive partially-finished basement to boot.
We saw it on day 2 of the listing and had our offer accepted on day 4, but I believe we were the only offer. It appraised over asking, but we got the tax assessment lowered about 10% to bring it in line with what we paid. This was back in late 2019 before things got crazy stupid in the market.
mino
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Note: European perspective where moving is way less frequent than in US.
Thanks squall, looking at my post again, realized I skipped the moral of the story part:
IMO One should build/update (own) house first for living and only distant second for its property value.
We rented a flat some years ago like this. It was remodelled for rentals a decade or so before. Was all clean, durable, timeless stuff etc. etc. After some time, we realized the place had a really bad mood for us. There was exactly zero emotion in the place. Felt like living in a shopping mall. Everything was nice, sometimes very high quality, but the design was of the "not to insult anyone" style so it rents/sells for as much as possible. The absolute lack of genius loci drained our energy. We moved on as soon as something less "sterile" came up.
Maybe we are of the "strange" variety of people who prefer to live first, accumulate wealth second. YMMV. But if I am gonna live some place for a decade, to actually bother to remodel/build, having the place comfortable is way beyond the profit I *may* make selling it on.
This also kinda self-fulfiling prophecy. One is more likely to move on /even in private life, there is the SO too ../ when living in an inhospitable place than when the place brings one good feelings and recharges one's batteries.
I see a lot of people planning and investing into the distant future, sacrificing their near future for it. Then the distant future never comes as we live only so long and their whole life was wasted, being just a struggle for it.
Putting additional beams, or making the concrete floor stronger so dividing walls can be placed later on, is good future-looking investment. Making your decorations, tiles etc. bland for the purpose of not wanting/having to replace them two decadeds later is putting money above life and that is not a good strategy.
Call me sentimental all you want, messaging atmosphere is just hard and I am no poet.
My 2¢.
Thanks squall, looking at my post again, realized I skipped the moral of the story part:
IMO One should build/update (own) house first for living and only distant second for its property value.
We rented a flat some years ago like this. It was remodelled for rentals a decade or so before. Was all clean, durable, timeless stuff etc. etc. After some time, we realized the place had a really bad mood for us. There was exactly zero emotion in the place. Felt like living in a shopping mall. Everything was nice, sometimes very high quality, but the design was of the "not to insult anyone" style so it rents/sells for as much as possible. The absolute lack of genius loci drained our energy. We moved on as soon as something less "sterile" came up.
Maybe we are of the "strange" variety of people who prefer to live first, accumulate wealth second. YMMV. But if I am gonna live some place for a decade, to actually bother to remodel/build, having the place comfortable is way beyond the profit I *may* make selling it on.
This also kinda self-fulfiling prophecy. One is more likely to move on /even in private life, there is the SO too ../ when living in an inhospitable place than when the place brings one good feelings and recharges one's batteries.
I see a lot of people planning and investing into the distant future, sacrificing their near future for it. Then the distant future never comes as we live only so long and their whole life was wasted, being just a struggle for it.
Putting additional beams, or making the concrete floor stronger so dividing walls can be placed later on, is good future-looking investment. Making your decorations, tiles etc. bland for the purpose of not wanting/having to replace them two decadeds later is putting money above life and that is not a good strategy.
Call me sentimental all you want, messaging atmosphere is just hard and I am no poet.
My 2¢.
Sparktrician
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mino said:
I got into several arguments with my now-ex-wife on that very subject. She looked at it from the very generic appeal perspective of a realtor (which she was at the time), while I looked at the selection and configuration of a home as intensely personal to one's own needs and personality, and attractive to potential buyers as a low-priority secondary function.
I opted for an alcove tub setup. It really helps to maximize the limited width without sacrificing comfort. These tubs fit snugly against three walls, which leaves enough room at the head of the tub to avoid that cramped feeling when you’re trying to relax.
