Blade for Resawing 8/4 x 10 Inch Cherry

[Bob D.]

I think I would have been better off with a 1/2" blade. This 3/4" is more than the bandsaw frame likes when it comes to tensioning. But I'm stuck with it now until its worn out. I don't think I would buy another 3/4" blade (for this saw) knowing what I have learned first hand.

The height of that piece varied so much that I thought keeping the guard as close as possible would be worth the risk of adjusting it during the cut. It paid off I think.

Trying to plow through sawdust just makes the blade hotter and creates more friction so robs your saw of power. I need to remember not to push it and let the blade geometry dictate the rate of feed.

My ZCIs are full of holes from the factory. I don't have much sawdust collecting on top of the table. It seems to be directly under the table where it gets out of the airstream and makes a mess. I think I will stick a camera under there while cutting and find out what's really happening.

 

[Cheese]

I'm still amazed at the small amount of sawdust between the boards. The WoodSlicer band is .022" thick with a kerf of .031" so there isn't much room to evacuate the sawdust.

The DoAll Penetrator blade I'm using has a band that's .025" thick but a kerf of .044" so there's a lot more room for sawdust evacuation. It must be my self inflicted rapid feed rate that's killing me.  [tongue]

The WoodSlicer folk do say that the cut surfaces can be initially sanded with 100 grit paper and that dovetails nicely with your results. Thanks for posting this stuff...some really good things to think about.

 

[grbmds]

Just for information purposes . . .most 14" bandsaws don't do well with 3/4" blades as they are not able to be tensioned to the correct tension. For example, my Rikon 325 Deluxe tensions a 1/2" blade properly at about the 5/8" mark on the tension gauge. It is unlikely I could tension a 3/4" blade enough to make it work properly. A 1/2" blade is sufficient for resawing. I've never had a problem with a 1/2" blade as long as I've spent the time to do the setup each time I install a new blade and sometimes after a lot of use.

A 3/4" blade won't speed up the feed rate. As far as I know, only a larger capacity bandsaw with a larger motor will do that. An 18" bandsaw, for example, would most likely be able to handle a 3/4" blade.

My experiences with the Woodslicer are OK but I have had much better success with other blades. The last blade I bought were Starrett and they work well. I've use Carter blades but I think the Starrett work better.

Also, for resawingm 3 TPI works best with a slow feed rate to get a good surface.

 

[Bob D.]

How do you determine 'properly' on your Rikon 10-325. I'd like to know so I can use the same method.

Everything you've stated in this last post you said a couple days ago, except previously you said you'd like to see the results using the 3/4" blade.

I have provided that. And I agreed in my post the other day that my 10-325 (and I would expect any similar design/size bandsaw) had a tough time tensioning the blade. I was off the scale over 3/4" to get the blade where I felt it had enough tension. I think my cuts show that I did have enough tension. But again, as I said previously I would not want to run the saw with that much tension repeatedly.

I agree that a 3/4 blade" will not speed up the feed rate over a 1/2" blade. That is if by feed rate you mean the rate at which the cut can progress as in inches per minute of material moving past the blade. I do not believe that a larger size saw will increase the rate at which the material can be moved through the blade.

There are only three things that I know of that can do that, those are, in no particular order:

1. Blade style (tooth design and TPI) which dictates the size of the gullet between the teeth.
2. Next would be the speed at which the blade is moving (blade FPM).
3. The third would be the rate at which the operator feeds the piece into the blade.

 

[Bertotti]

I am reasonably sure that the loose belt was my problem. I don't know how much faster it would have cut. I just felt 8 minutes for this piece was long. Before I started I guessed it would take from 4 to 5, but that was just a WAG.

Yes, finding zero sawdust in there was amazing, and I am sure the low feed rate had a lot to do with that. Plus the 4000 FPM* blade speed with the DVR motor meant I was getting just over 7 revolutions of the blade for every inch of travel. That's 200 inches per second greater blade speed than the stock motor.
  * The stock motor gives 2950FPM on high and 1445 FPM on low speed.

4000FPM * 12 = 48000 blade inches/minute

48000/60 = 800 blade inches/second

800 * 3.5 TPI = 2800 teeth/sec

My feed rate was 11.022 seconds per inch or roughly .1 inches every 1.1 seconds, so if my math is right (feel free to check me) I was getting about ~3000 teeth moving through the work every tenth of an inch. That can move some sawdust.

Yes, I have my dust collector connected to the bandsaw. It grabs almost everything that hits the lower wheel cabinet, but I find the space under the table required to allow for tilting the table lets a lot of sawdust escape. I can't remember the last time I cut an angle other than 90 on this bandsaw, and I've had it since 2008. So I use some magnetic sheet material to stick on the corner of the lower wheel cabinet door and try to mask off as much of that open space as I can. It works sort of but the other two sides are still wide open and spill sawdust. I might try and setup a second collection point under the table. Been noodling on how I might do that for a while now and nothing has really impressed me as worth attempting.

Here's a short video of me sawing one of the legs. You can see zero sawdust when I separate the two pieces after the cut.
You'll also hear one of the upper guide bearings screaming during the cut. It started complaining during the first cut the day before. I ordered new bearings and they arrived today so I'll put those in tomorrow. Running these through the planer I only removed 48 thou to get them flat again.

Nice video! It is cool at the end you can see where the blade exits the wood how well it is moving the dust from between the pieces. Thanks! I'm off for a 1/2" blade if my local shop carries them. Been running a 3/4 timber wolf on my 14' Jet with risers, and it works well but I can't help but wonder at the tension now that I have read this thread. I never cut as slow as you and that would explain the little run out I do get along with maybe the tension.

 

[Bob D.]

Thanks, I might have been able to cut a little faster if the drive belt had been properly tensioned but that was not my goal.

I do think as others have pointed out that a 3/4" blade on this saw is first not necessary and secondly not going to improve the cut over a 1/2" blade. If the tooth geometry is the same all you gain is 1/4" more blade that is potentially dragging in the kerf and stealing power from your cut. Yes, the blade is narrower than the tooth set but it still impacts performance is my thought. I'm stuck with this 3/4 blade now and I will have to get my money's worth out of it but once that happens I will move to a 1/2" blade in the future.

I wish the DVR motor controller displayed the motor load in percent they way it does on the Voyager Drill Press. That could be helpful when you are cutting but also to take a initial reading when you install a new blade then use that as a basis to help determine when your blade is getting dull. Of course a big variable there is the wood you are cutting so maybe not as helpful as it might seem.

 

[grbmds]

How do you determine 'properly' on your Rikon 10-325. I'd like to know so I can use the same method.

Everything you've stated in this last post you said a couple days ago, except previously you said you'd like to see the results using the 3/4" blade.

I have provided that. And I agreed in my post the other day that my 10-325 (and I would expect any similar design/size bandsaw) had a tough time tensioning the blade. I was off the scale over 3/4" to get the blade where I felt it had enough tension. I think my cuts show that I did have enough tension. But again, as I said previously I would not want to run the saw with that much tension repeatedly.

I agree that a 3/4 blade" will not speed up the feed rate over a 1/2" blade. That is if by feed rate you mean the rate at which the cut can progress as in inches per minute of material moving past the blade. I do not believe that a larger size saw will increase the rate at which the material can be moved through the blade.

There are only three things that I know of that can do that, those are, in no particular order:

1. Blade style (tooth design and TPI) which dictates the size of the gullet between the teeth.
2. Next would be the speed at which the blade is moving (blade FPM).
3. The third would be the rate at which the operator feeds the piece into the blade.

[member=60461]Bob D.[/member]  For about the past 5 years I follow the set of steps that Alex Snodgrass has laid out at past woodworking shows. These are also detailed in a pamphlet that Carter Products sells. There are also a couple of videos on YouTube showing the process, one via The Wood Whisperer in his shop and a couple of others; some a bit more detailed than others.

The thing I've realized is that these steps must be followed, not only each time a new blade (or even a different blade) is installed, but at least checked periodically during the life of a single blade while on the saw. I especially check the setting of guides and the bearing behind the blade after a long session of cutting circular blanks for turning. If all I'm doing is ripping, crosscutting, or resawing, the setup probably isn't disturbed and doesn't need to be checked. Alex Snodgrass says at all his demos at woodworking shows that, if you use a blade to cut curves or circles, the set in the blade can be changed due to heat build-up and recommends dedicating blades to resawing.

I have never had any success with the fence that came with my saw. Instead, I purchased the Magfence from Carter because it allows me to set the fence exactly where I want it on my bandsaw table and it can be used on other cast iron or steel surfaces. There is no magic about this fence, however. I've seen many homemade fences on YouTube and elsewhere that would work as well. However, the Rikon fence, in my opinion, is not a good one and I was never able to get it to lock down square, even though Rikon sent me a second fence when I reported the first one wasn't able to be set.

Finally, there are other setup videos out there and I suppose most of them work. However, the Alex Snodgrass method allows me to resaw without worrying about drift or any of the other problems that people report with resawing. Once I'm done with the setup and only use that setup to resaw, I  get resaw cuts as smooth and straight as required to get slices off a board. Do I still need to surface the resawed face? Sure, but I don't usually need to take much off to get it smooth and flat, but I still need to allow sufficient thickness when resawing just in case.

 

[jcrowe1950]

[member=60461]Bob D.[/member]  For about the past 5 years I follow the set of steps that Alex Snodgrass has laid out at past woodworking shows. These are also detailed in a pamphlet that Carter Products sells. There are also a couple of videos on YouTube showing the process, one via The Wood Whisperer in his shop and a couple of others; some a bit more detailed than others.

The thing I've realized is that these steps must be followed, not only each time a new blade (or even a different blade) is installed, but at least checked periodically during the life of a single blade while on the saw. I especially check the setting of guides and the bearing behind the blade after a long session of cutting circular blanks for turning. If all I'm doing is ripping, crosscutting, or resawing, the setup probably isn't disturbed and doesn't need to be checked. Alex Snodgrass says at all his demos at woodworking shows that, if you use a blade to cut curves or circles, the set in the blade can be changed due to heat build-up and recommends dedicating blades to resawing.

Hi Randy, Bob, et al.,

    I agree about the value of Alex Snodgrass' advice especially WRT to centering the back of the gullets on the center of the crown. IMO, this is what limits this class of saw in supporting a 3/4" bandsaw blade. My previous bandsaw was a Minimax 16 with flat tires on the wheels. This totally supported the width of the blades and made re sawing operations a dream. I now have the same Rikon 10-325 that a number of you have mentioned. I recently upgraded to the newer toolless Rikon guide bearings and they are a significant improvement. Still not up to the standards of the Minimax, but they provide more bearing surface by being larger diameter and twice as thick. That said, it's worth insuring that none of the bearings actually are activated until there is a slight load either on the thrust bearing and/or the side bearings. Alex Snodgrass has an excellent method of said adjustment.

I have never had any success with the fence that came with my saw. Instead, I purchased the Magfence from Carter because it allows me to set the fence exactly where I want it on my bandsaw table and it can be used on other cast iron or steel surfaces. There is no magic about this fence, however. I've seen many homemade fences on YouTube and elsewhere that would work as well. However, the Rikon fence, in my opinion, is not a good one and I was never able to get it to lock down square, even though Rikon sent me a second fence when I reported the first one wasn't able to be set.

  The newer Rikon bandsaws do address the fence issue somewhat. I agree that the original 10-325 fence was sub optimal....it is too short for resaw operations and there's no easy way to attach an auxiliary fence. For resaw operations a square to the table fence is very important as well as insuring that the blade is square to the table. Also, I am currently using a GRR-Ripper to apply even, square pressure when resawwing....it's a pretty neat solution.

Finally, there are other setup videos out there and I suppose most of them work. However, the Alex Snodgrass method allows me to resaw without worrying about drift or any of the other problems that people report with resawing. Once I'm done with the setup and only use that setup to resaw, I  get resaw cuts as smooth and straight as required to get slices off a board. Do I still need to surface the resawed face? Sure, but I don't usually need to take much off to get it smooth and flat, but I still need to allow sufficient thickness when resawing just in case.

Great observations.... [thanks]

 

[Bob D.]

How do you determine 'properly' on your Rikon 10-325. I'd like to know so I can use the same method.

Everything you've stated in this last post you said a couple days ago, except previously you said you'd like to see the results using the 3/4" blade.

I have provided that. And I agreed in my post the other day that my 10-325 (and I would expect any similar design/size bandsaw) had a tough time tensioning the blade. I was off the scale over 3/4" to get the blade where I felt it had enough tension. I think my cuts show that I did have enough tension. But again, as I said previously I would not want to run the saw with that much tension repeatedly.

I agree that a 3/4 blade" will not speed up the feed rate over a 1/2" blade. That is if by feed rate you mean the rate at which the cut can progress as in inches per minute of material moving past the blade. I do not believe that a larger size saw will increase the rate at which the material can be moved through the blade.

There are only three things that I know of that can do that, those are, in no particular order:

1. Blade style (tooth design and TPI) which dictates the size of the gullet between the teeth.
2. Next would be the speed at which the blade is moving (blade FPM).
3. The third would be the rate at which the operator feeds the piece into the blade.

[member=60461]Bob D.[/member]  For about the past 5 years I follow the set of steps that Alex Snodgrass has laid out at past woodworking shows. These are also detailed in a pamphlet that Carter Products sells. There are also a couple of videos on YouTube showing the process, one via The Wood Whisperer in his shop and a couple of others; some a bit more detailed than others.

The thing I've realized is that these steps must be followed, not only each time a new blade (or even a different blade) is installed, but at least checked periodically during the life of a single blade while on the saw. I especially check the setting of guides and the bearing behind the blade after a long session of cutting circular blanks for turning. If all I'm doing is ripping, crosscutting, or resawing, the setup probably isn't disturbed and doesn't need to be checked. Alex Snodgrass says at all his demos at woodworking shows that, if you use a blade to cut curves or circles, the set in the blade can be changed due to heat build-up and recommends dedicating blades to resawing.

I have never had any success with the fence that came with my saw. Instead, I purchased the Magfence from Carter because it allows me to set the fence exactly where I want it on my bandsaw table and it can be used on other cast iron or steel surfaces. There is no magic about this fence, however. I've seen many homemade fences on YouTube and elsewhere that would work as well. However, the Rikon fence, in my opinion, is not a good one and I was never able to get it to lock down square, even though Rikon sent me a second fence when I reported the first one wasn't able to be set.

Finally, there are other setup videos out there and I suppose most of them work. However, the Alex Snodgrass method allows me to resaw without worrying about drift or any of the other problems that people report with resawing. Once I'm done with the setup and only use that setup to resaw, I  get resaw cuts as smooth and straight as required to get slices off a board. Do I still need to surface the resawed face? Sure, but I don't usually need to take much off to get it smooth and flat, but I still need to allow sufficient thickness when resawing just in case.

I don't know why you are directing your reply at me (I say that because you tagged me in your response) as you didn't answer my question.

Which was:  How do YOU determine 'properly' on your Rikon 10-325. I'd like to know so I can use the same method.

did you just figure it out by watching Alex at a WWing show or from watching YT videos, or did you develop a method to take accurate measurements of blade tension or maybe use one of the available overpriced blade tension gauges, none of which come with any calibration certs so they are $400 pieces of junk.

I know who Alex is and yeah I've watched him at many WWing shows over the past decade or two, all good but your comment concerning Alex no relation to the topic of my thread and means nothing in relation to what I have said or posted.  Tossing his name in there does not improve your position in my eyes.

Carter MagFence, yeah it's nice, pricey but nice. I have one and use it when I need it. You might even see it being used in the video I posted. So why do you tell me about something I already know of and use. Just because you can't get the Rikon fence to work for you doesn't mean that's the case for everyone or it's junk. I use mine all the time with no issues. I have thought about improvements to this fence and I have a new fence under development which will be a game changer for all bandsaws but sorry I can't share details at this time.

I had no issue with drift before or after installing the Woodslicer blade, so I don't know why you bring this up in your reply which you have directed at me. Anyone who has used a BS knows about blade drift. You telling me that you've conquered your drift problem has nothing to do with me resawing this cherry or the blade I used.

I've watched hours of video on setting up bandsaws and I've tried many of the techniques shown by Alex at WWing shows and by others. And I have read bandsaw book. I took what worked for me and I modified or adapted some of the methods of Alex and others to work for me and give me repeatable results on my saw.

When I changed the motor on my BS to the DVR motor 2 years ago, I took advantage of having the saw half torn apart to go over it thoroughly and fix all the issues I have found over the previous 8 years of use. I actually bought the Carter micro-adjust guide bearing 'upgrade' kit for the 10-325 a year before I upgraded the motor and after a few weeks I removed it and went back to the stock setup because it had the same issues as the stock setup. Then Rikon came out with their upgrade kit (10-900) right as I had ordered the DVR motor from Striatech and I decided while I had the saw torn apart I would try that so I bought and installed that kit.

After a couple days work to completely clean the saw cabinet interior, install new tires, balance the wheels, and finely fit the guide bearing assemblies (because just like the stock Rikon setup and the Carter version they were not as good as they could be) and tweak other areas of the saw it performs flawlessly now. I want to improve dust collection and have a few ideas on that but they are down the road, maybe this Winter I will try a few mods out.

 

[grbmds]

Sorry, maybe I directed the response at the wrong person, but I thought you were the OP and were having some difficulty.

Actually the way I know that the Rikon 325 I own is setup correctly is the fact that following the Alex Snodgrass steps produces the consistent results I desire. So I guess, in the end, it's the results the tell me it's setup correctly for the saw. Since I have followed these steps, the results have always been what I want. First, the resawed slice is essentially consistent in thickness (not perfect, no, but consistent enough that running it through the planer smooth side down will always produce the desired thickness piece without taking very much off the rough resawed side.

You may do this already but my comment brings up another step when resawing. I make sure that I always put a jointed or planed side against the fence. Thus, the resulting slice will already have one flat smooth reference side. With a board that you are merely slicing in half, both sides should be flat and smooth to begin with so after resawing, you only need to flatten and smooth the cut side to thickness. As I said, you seem to know about resawing so I assume that this is part of your process.

I never got good results when I first got the Rikon saw and was disappointed because it replaced an old Craftsman which didn't make resawing easy no matter how I set it up. But, after a few setups using the the method from Alex, that all changed. Now, if I am not getting the desired results, I will check the setup and make corrections. If that doesn't work, then I change the blade.

Sorry I can't be of more help but, for me, following Alex's method for setup was the key and really the only factor in improving my results.