Blade recommendation for Festool Vecturo OSC 18

[TinyShop]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - I wish I could answer your question but I'm away from home and so can't test my theory. I can, however, confirm that the OSL114C measure 3.5" from end-to-end and 2-7/8" from the center of the bottle cap shaped aperture to the tips of the teeth (I happen to have a 10-pack of those in my immediate possession).

So, with the plunge base installed on the tool, what's the measurement from the center of the arbor to the magnet?

 

[mkasdin]

I use Fein with the newer Starlock connection. I own the 350 multi master. The blades have numbers and correspond to various applications. It’s a bit confusing but I have the Fein catalogue which cross references everything. It’s a razor vs blades marketing strategy. Give away the tool and make up for it on the consumable blades. They do last and the MM is a beast.

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=64030]TinyShop[/member] Let's put this to bed. I just received my OSC 18 and it included the 'long' 78mm blade from Festool. End to end it actually measures about 124mm:

In the plunge base, it makes contact with the magnet pre-plunge:

The longest blade I had access to between my Fein and Bosch sets measured about 110mm long:

It is not long enough pre-plunge to contact the magnet:

Additionally the coating on that particular blade made it non-magnetic.

Whether or not these things matter is for each person to decide. However, to use the tool as designed with the magnet holding the blade, it would seem the only option is the expensive Festool blade which requires Starlock Max.

For me I needed to cut some 3/4" hardwood flooring with the Fein Multimaster and grabbed the plunge base to do it and realized none of my blades at the time were long enough to cut all the way through.

Hope this helps,
Matt

 

[TinyShop]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - Thanks for following up on this!

Looking back at photos from an earlier project, I found this:

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

I recall in the above instance that the only thing I had to do was to adjust the magnet such that it grabbed the blade as it passed - this was enough to allow the shorter blade to cut plumb to the travel of the plunge base. In my case, I was cutting along a pencil line into sheetrock and the plunge cuts were perfect. Of course, maybe if the material in question is less forgiving (like what you were working with) accuracy will suffer. Is this what you found?

Funny how not knowing something is often all one needs to know to "just get on with it". I didn't know any better and I didn't suffer any ill-effects from using the plunge base with an "unapproved" blade. Go figure.

Also, I could see this 'short-blade workaround' potentially not working with a short blade that features a coated tip - like the Fein diamond blade (63502193210) I recently picked up for a spring cement siding repair job - since the built-up edge of the cutting surface is ever so slightly thicker than the rest of the blade. In that case, I suppose it's possible that the coated diamond or carbide tip would not clear the magnet and chew it up in the process.

That said, I think that as long as one takes this limitation into account, use of the plunge base with blades shorter than the non-Multimaster-compatible Starlock Max 203337 blade is perfectly doable (that is, as long as one doesn't need to achieve the max depth afforded by that extra long blade - in which case it would appear to be the only option).

[following some quick research] By the way, both Fein and Bosch make a variety of super-long Starlock Max blades (like the Fein 63502203260, for instance, which appears to be the Fein-branded version of the Festool 203337 or the Bosch OSM200F which appears to be quite similar). Bosch even makes super-long Starlock Max blades with carbide tips (like the Bosch OSM114C).

You know, it just dawned me, but the one thing that defines Starlock Max blades (and makes them unique among all the other Starlock Plus and Starlock blade offerings) is their super long length (a little late to the party, I know). So, no matter what, if the desire is to utilize a blade that contacts the adjustable magnet in the plunge base before any action is taken to compress the springs inside the plunge base, then one cannot use this accessory in conjunction with a Multimaster. Good to know. Of course, as I already pointed out, I didn't experience any problems from doing so, so it definitely appears to be an option (the most obvious workaround, as you've already pointed out, is to slowly actuate the plunge base until the magnet grabs the blade and then proceed as normal).

All that said, now I'm wondering if the plunge base can be modified in order to, in-effect, "choke" the uncompressed-end of its travel. I'll have to look into this. I would think that anyone who owns an OSC or the corded or cordless Fein-branded comparables (those which can be successfully fitted with the OSC accessory mounting collar) would like the flexibility of being able to use the plunge base as intended along with far less expensive Starlock Plus blades. I know I certainly would.

Thanks again.

 

[TinyShop]

Amazing what a few minutes on the internet can lead to....

So, it turns out that Bosch once produced (or maybe still produces, I haven't yet been able to find the answer to that question) super-long offset blades with the OIS interface:
https://www.master-outillage.com/bo...h-professionnel-2608662309-3165140773300.html

A quick search reveals that at least one French retailer, one Polish retailer and some Russian retailers (among others) still have stock of this blade.

So, what does this have to do with this discussion?

Well, an enterprising maker in Norway is producing the following adapter (which allows backwards compatibility between a Starlock Plus tool like the 350QSL and OIS and universal tooling):
https://www.oslotoolcompany.no/pages/starlock-adapter

Here's the video detailing the adapter:


I can't tell from the product video but the adapter doesn't appear to add that much by way of stack height (if anything at all?) relative to the corresponding layout of a Starlock-style blade. Therefore, I'm curious (and will reach out to the adapter manufacturer to see if they happen to know) if use of this adapter fitted to a Multimaster 350 QSL - along with a super-long Bosch AIZ 32 BLC 70x32 C-Tec GOP Cutting Blade for Wood (2608662309) - would a) work with the OSC plunge base and, if so, b) if it would resolve the cutting depth limitation that [member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] discovered when using the OSC plunge base in conjunction with a MultiMaster 350QSL (and its correspondingly shorter blades). I'll report back with what I find out.

Now, closer to home (at least for those of us in N.A.) there's this U.S.-made option for super-long (70mm) universal-fit blades (which the above adapter is compatible with):
https://imperialblades.com/product/iboa133-extended-plunge-thick-wood-blade/

Lee Valley retails them:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-gb/sho...steel-cutters-by-imperial-blades?item=77J5904

Of course, many no-name Chinese brands proliferate. Here's just one example:
https://www.amazon.com/EZARC-Titanium-Oscillating-Multitool-Extra-Long/dp/B07L95SH5R

This particular blade (although Chinese in origin) as well as the aforecited U.S.-made example appear to match the same 70mm blade (not overall, that widely used technical naming protocol is confusing) length as the Bosch C-Tec blade I referenced earlier. If so, it would appear they are only 8mm shorter in length than the long Festool/Fein blade. As an aside, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are all likely copies of the Bosch version. Anyways, here's another extra-long (also known as "long-reach") blade option (I'm going to guess that all of the various Chinese versions are produced in the same factory):
https://www.rykerhardware.com/products/extened-reach-wood-plastic-oscillating-saw-blades
     
Stay tuned!

Other info sources:
https://www.jlconline.com/tools/power-tools/bosch-and-fein-announce-changes-to-oscillating-tools_o
https://toolguyd.com/new-bosch-ois-standard-for-oscillating-multi-tool-accessories/
https://toolguyd.com/bosch-starlock-blades-for-your-older-oscillating-multi-tool-question/

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=64030]TinyShop[/member] I'm glad you're on the case!  [blink] I'd love a source for cheaper similar long blades that function as well as the Festool. I don't see myself spending $85 for a five pack if I can help it. Although it isn't terrible compared to the per blade price of Fein and Bosch.

 

[TinyShop]

OK, after some back and forth with Oslo Tool Company, I finally received the clarification I needed to be able to upload this post.

First, after some initial confusion, I can confirm that this adapter will work perfectly in conjunction with a Fein MM 350QSL. In contrast, it will not work with any predecessor model of MultiMaster (so, for instance, the 350Q is not compatible). The tool in question must be Starlock Plus (or higher). 

[02/02/2021 edit - See follow-up comment below.] Second, I can confirm that the (what I'm calling) "stack-height" of this adapter matches the stack-height of a standard Starlock Plus blade. In other words, the thickness of this adapter is 5mm which matches the ~5mm thickness of the corresponding 3-dimensional "bottle-cap" portion of a Starlock Plus blade (the following image shows a Bosch OSL114C blade and the dimensions I took from it using an inexpensive digital caliper):

[attachimg=1]

Note - There’s a bit of variation that results from the deformation that the blade undergoes when the Starlock Plus 3-dimensional shape is pressed into it, hence my individual measurements (4.95mm + 1.32mm) don’t add up to the total (5.99mm). But you get the idea.

So, unless I'm missing something, it would appear that my idea of using Oslo Tool Company's adapter (fitted to a long-reach universal blade and installed in a Starlock Plus Fein MM350QSL) in conjunction with the Festool OSC plunge guide is, in fact, a sound and worthwhile goal.

The only caveat is that I'm still not clear how a universal-fit long-reach blade (like the Imperial OneFit Extended Plunge Thick Wood blade) measures up to the SuperCut "SuperMax" blades in terms of length. So, for an apples to apples comparison, [member=65062]DynaGlide[/member], could you please provide the center-to-tip measurement of your SuperMax blade? Here I am referring to the following:

[attachimg=2]

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=64030]TinyShop[/member] The measurement you asked for is 104mm.

 

[TinyShop]

Correction needed for my previous post. Apparently, the adapter produced by Oslo Tool actually results in an associated blade being offset away from the head of the tool by ~5mm (compared to a standard Starlock Plus blade). In practice, this means that the rear face/underside of a given blade will stand off (away) from the magnet in the base of the plunge guide by ~5mm (compared to stand of a Starlock Plus blade). Either I misunderstood the initial reply from Oslo Tool or their answer was misleading (English not being the first language of the person who's been answering my questions, this isn't entirely unexpected). Anyways, is there enough adjustment (a.k.a. "in and out travel") in the magnet to swallow this up?

Also, having since sent a followup email, I'm still waiting to hear back from Imperial Blades. I requested the length of their long reach universal fit blade (measured from the center of the mounting aperture to the tip) to enable a comparison between it and the super long Festool/Fein supercut blades. I'll post their response when I receive it.

 

[Warg]

The Festool blades are a 78mm long working length 32mm wide hence the 78/32/Bi/OSC marking on them.

The fein alternative is part number 63502201210 more easily identified as a Fein Starlock MAX 201 which is exactly 78mm long working length, 32 mm wide

Fein also do a 203 blade which is 78mm long, 42mm wide part number 63502203210 which is also Starlock MAX.

As previously said by yetihunter, if using with plunge base then 78mm working length is a must as to be long enough to attack to magnets at bottom of plunge base. Any shorter is not recommended.

The FEIN blades retail for around £7 here in the UK.

A side note is these blades are only suitable for the Vecturo OSC18 and FEIN Supercut as they are identical machines or others on the Starlock MAX platform.

NOT FEIN Multimaster or equivalent which use Starlock Plus.

 

[TinyShop]

[member=72535]Warg[/member] - I think you overlooked the heart of the issue here, which is:

[list type=decimal]
[*]working length dimensions are not helpful because they don't tell us anything about the center-to-tip measurement (which means we can't compare one blade to another because working lengths are apples to oranges comparisons); and
[*]we're trying to figure out if using the adapter produced by Oslo Tool in conjunction with a long reach blade (long reach blades only exist in universal and OIS interfaces) will overcome the limitation created by Starlock Plus blades (the limitation being their relatively short lengths when compared to Starlock Max blades) and the MM 350QSL (with its non-Starlock Max compatible head).
[/list]

With this in mind, I heard back earlier today from Imperial Blades. I am struggling to convince them to provide me with the center-to-tip measurement of their long reach universal-fit blade (they seem to think this info is proprietary even though if I had immediate access to one of these blades I could measure it in seconds myself) but they did represent that their long reach blade is "about" 4-5/8" long (I asume this might be a generalized end-to-end dimension). So, to compare to Dynaglide's end-to-end measurement of his Festool/Fein Starlock Max blade (124mm compared to the generalized 117mm number I received from Imperial) ) it appears that, generally speaking, the Imperial Blade is a lot closer to the length needed to contact the magnet pre-plunge. Unless I can convince Imperial Blade to hand over the top secret info about how long their blade is (good grief) we're stuck without the other piece of the puzzle we need to perform an informed apples to apples comparison. With any luck, they will come to their senses and give me this dimension. Stand by.

 

[TinyShop]

Since a picture is worth a thousand words (and crosschecks, but that's another matter), here's a graphical representation of what we're up against:

View attachment 1

So, if what Oslo Tool is asserting - that the use of their adapter produces about a 5mm offset away from the head of the tool (compared to an installed Starock "x" blade) - is accurate, then what we need to determine is a) is there is enough adjustment in the magnet at the base of the plunge guide to take up this additional offset and b) when used in conjunction with the Oslo Tool adapter (and fitted to a FMM 350QSL attached to a Festool OSC plunge guide,) are long reach universal-fit or long reach OIS blades long enough to allow the blade to make contact with the plunge guide's magnet pre-plunge? In the photo above, I've superimposed a theoretical universal blade fitted with the Oslo Tool adapter (and showing its theoretical position relative to the Starlock Max blade installed in the tool) to help us wrap our heads around what we're trying to determine.

 

[Warg]

Hey tinyshop, I believe you are on your own path in this thread now for your own agenda, I was actually just simply answering the original question of a replacement blade/ alternative to spending $85 for a pack of 5 festool 78mm blades which I have given the fein alternative in my previous post.

The rest is up for debate which I’m no part of. Enjoy.

 

[TinyShop]

[member=72535]Warg[/member] - My apologies. I misunderstood the point of your comment (I though it was directed at me). No hard feelings, OK?

 

[woodferret]

[member=64030]TinyShop[/member] FWIW, I've been enjoying the 'can I get this to work' journey with the MM and OSC adapters.  I passed on the plunge base given the issues with offset but am enjoying the other adapters thanks to you.  If you ever do figure this out, it'd be nice to know here or elsewhere.

 

[TinyShop]

OK, after more than a week of frustrating back and forth with Imperial Blade ("IB") I finally managed to convince the representative I was working with to release the apparently super secret center-to-tip dimension of their universal-fit, long reach blade (IBOA133).

Drum roll, please...

The magic number is 4.098" (104mm).

So, in other words, if what the IB rep told me is true, it's identical to the center-to-tip dimension of the Starlock Max blade that Festool recommends.

As an aside, in the course of dealing with Imperial Blade I learned that Milwaukee gobbled them up a couple of years ago (which likely explains the frustrating experience I had trying to learn the apparently super secret dimension).

Anyways, now all we need to determine is if there's enough outbound adjustment in the travel of the adjustable guide magnet that's located in the base of the plunge base:

View attachment 1

...to account for the additional ~5mm offset created by the use of the Oslo Tool (or equivalent) adapter and a universal-fit long reach blade (like the IBOA133). Since I'm presently in Covid-lockdown away from my tools, [member=65062]DynaGlide[/member], are you able to answer this question?

If there's not enough travel in the magnet, my first thought is to either source a longer magnet or otherwise modify the existing magnet to allow more of it to stick out from the plunge base (such that it can catch a blade that's more offset than normal).           

 

[TrulsHjortnes]

I ordered the adapter mentioned in the thread here from oslotoolcompany and it works. I do not notice any difference in performance or power in terms of the height of the adapter..

https://www.oslotoolcompany.no/pages/starlock-adapter