Blum Metabox vs poplar dovetailed drawers

[woodferret]

No love for Merivobox? 

 

[Coen]

No love for Merivobox? 

Oh those look nice. Finally vertical sides! I gotta dream a bit about those before I look up the prices.

 

[Oldwood]

I think the real advantage of the box systems is only realised if you have a CNC or/and a 32 mm multi head drill.

This just isn't accurate.

Box systems offer lots of advantages, even for the jobber or handyman.  We can send out an installer/servicer with two small boxes of sides and slides and a 1/4 sheet of melamine - and he can make up any size drawer from 9" to 48" in width on the spot and install it in less than an hour with a tracksaw, drill/driver and a tape measure.  If we know the width ahead of time the drawer bottom and backer can be made up ahead of the call in even less time.  With another small box of parts he could make an interior rollout to add to a pantry or base cabinet.  The seasoned ones aren't drilling the bottoms for screw holes either - they use type 17 self drilling screws and a steady hand along with a keen eye.

Try doing either of those onsite with dovetailed drawers within an hour or without big specialized equipment.

Now, if you have CNC , or point to point or any other type of big stationary equipment - you'll see more advantages in time and efficiency.  But, that's universally true with any type of production.  Drawer systems, dovetailed boxes, food,

How do you drill your drawer fronts for the front fixing bracket and gallery rail? Do you mount the cabinet member by hand?

Building the boxes is dead easy but drilling the holes in the gables and fronts so every front just snaps into place with little or no adjustment is huge when there are 30 or 40 drawers in the kitchen.

YMMV
Gerry

 

[woodferret]

If you can drill very accurately the drawer fronts just snap into place and require almost no adjustments.

We used the Legrabox, Intrabox  for most kitchens when we had a CNC and 32 mm construction drill but I am looking at doing a kitchen now that I have sold off all the machinery and I will use Movento guides and wood boxes.

No luck using ZML.0040.01 Universal Drilling Template?

 

[xedos]

What is the perception to the consumer?  Is it upmarket or down?  Is it perceived as cheap or dear?

Depends on the box system and the customer.    Metabox is entry level and 3/4 extension.  3/4 extension is going to put off a lot of people especially in a kitchen.  In a closet , many can deal with it.    For the crowd that doesn't want to hear anything (rightly or wrongly) other than "real wood"  - a box system isn't going to fly no matter how good and wonderful it is.  You may educate / convince them that a box sys isn't evil, but is it really worth your time ?  Some of the best, most expensive cabinets form Europe have metal box systems, so does IKEA at the other end of the spectrum.  It all boils down to the spec of the cabinet builder and the system he choose to use.

How is the durability?  Certainly better than 5/8” vinyl clad particle board and staples, but as good as 3/4” through dovetails?

It's quite durable.  I've got some kitchens with box systems that are 30+ years old.

I will have to figure out the cost differential.  With the current cost of lumber + finish + good slides vs Legrabox & slides.

Let me save you some trouble and dissuade you of the notion of using Legrabox.  It will be one of the most expensive options out there.  And you'll have the notching issue to deal with which is a pain.

I took a quick peek at the pricing on the Legrabox + slide and it appears to me to be about $100.00 (looking a CabinetParts, though I usually buy from A & H Turf).

see Legrabox comments above.

I'd look at Tandembox:https://www.woodworkerexpress.com/tandembox-drawer-profile/

or Grass's Nova Pro:https://www.woodworkerexpress.com/grass-nova-pro-scala-metal-drawer-box-system/

these are solid, European made systems that are cheaper than Legrabox - they just don't have the same thin profile that's all the rage now.  Tandembox use the exact same slides as Legra - but doesn't require the ridiculous notch to use.

 

[Packard]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. 

 

[Oldwood]

If you can drill very accurately the drawer fronts just snap into place and require almost no adjustments.

We used the Legrabox, Intrabox  for most kitchens when we had a CNC and 32 mm construction drill but I am looking at doing a kitchen now that I have sold off all the machinery and I will use Movento guides and wood boxes.

No luck using ZML.0040.01 Universal Drilling Template?

I think those work ok, but it is the combination of drilling the fronts and the gables for the runners accurately that makes the system work so well.

I am not suggesting you can not use the box systems without a cnc and/or 32 mm construction drill. I am just suggesting you do not get the most from the system that way.

They are designed for production equipment.

 

[Cheese]

What is the perception to the consumer?  Is it upmarket or down?  Is it perceived as cheap or dear?

Tough question to answer...beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder.  [smile]

Here are some box system drawers that may have you lifting your eyebrows. None of these photos leave me to believe the owners are just 5 minutes from being "street people."  [smile]

The first 5 photos are from a $70,000 Hacker kitchen remodel.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

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[attachimg=5]

This next one is from a $95,000 Hacker upgrade.

[attachimg=6]

And finally these last photos are the Puustelli cabinets in Andrew Zimmern's recent kitchen remodel. He also chose to use all Gaggenau appliances so you be the judge. Half empty...or half full?

[attachimg=7]

[attachimg=8]

 

[rvieceli]

Bottom line on most of this stuff is that is very difficult to build someone that you don’t know their perfect kitchen. So in general build something that you find good for you and that you want to live with.

I think redoing kitchens and baths be is high on the list for many home buyers.

Given my space constraints, my is pretty perfect for ME but I have no illusions that many other people would find it acceptable.

Ron

 

[xedos]

I am not suggesting you can not use the box systems without a cnc and/or 32 mm construction drill. I am just suggesting you do not get the most from the system that way.

They are designed for production equipment.

While they are designed with production in mind , so what ?  Some systems don't even require drilling at all in order for assembly.  Your statement is about as off base as saying one needs CNC or 32mm drill in order to use 35mm cup hinges. 

Your observation that big automated (or semi) machinery is better for production is basically true across all manufacturing endeavors.  A dovetail router jig is gonna run circles around a guy cutting dovetails by hand.  A dedicated , stationary dovetailing machine will pound a router jig into the ground, and an automated version is even better than that. 

So, by extension - we can only get the most from dovetail drawers by having big automated equipment, right ? 

Manufacturing is almost always served best by large automated processes, to suggest that one shouldn't consider a particular product because it is more efficiently made with automated equipment (that you don't have) is plain ridiculous.  You seem to be missing the entire point of packard's question in general and how it relates to a drawer box system. 

You need to ask yourself whether it's reasonable for packard to build a box from a system quicker than a dovetail box and for close to the same cost.  I think we can reasonable assume he doesn't have an automated system for either type.  And I'm willing to be most people are going to make 4 cuts on a sheet of melamine and add some screws to the box system faster than they can knock out 4 corners on a dovetail jig + groove them + cut the bottom and then glue and assemble the lot. The more boxes made the more time is saved with a system - and that's just with a calculator, tablesaw, and a screwgun. 

The cost is a bit harder to dope out.  Can you get 5/8" or 3/4" solid wood for free ?  Gonna be hard to beat that against a $20-$40 pair of metal sides.  How much do you value your time ?  If you're just a putzer that has more time than dosh, it doesn't really matter how long it takes to build a drawer.  If you're a professional billing at $50, $100, $500/hr........ saving 30min. a drawer can add up quick. 

 

[Oldwood]

"to suggest that one shouldn't consider a particular product because it is more efficiently made with automated equipment (that you don't have) is plain ridiculous."

That is not what I said.

I believe Without the drilling capability Movento guides with wood boxes are more efficient.

Of course you are free to disagree

 

[xedos]

That is not what I said.

I believe Without the drilling capability Movento guides with wood boxes are more efficient.

Of course you are free to disagree

Well, ya kinda did………buttressed by your comment on “the wood boxes are more efficient “

So yea, I disagree and think you’re plain mistaken that wood drawers are more efficient than a metal box system if you’re doing both with minimal tooling. 

Might be able to concede that you could assemble a wooden box more efficiently IF you bought pre-finished material , and butt jointed the corners with glue and nails and then nailed on the bottoms too.  But I’d still wager some money I could find someone faster with a metal box system.

If you have to machine any kind of joint : dowel, domino, drawer lock , finger joint and especially dovetail - you’re gonna lose the race every single time with typical hand tools powered or not.

 

[morts10n]

Quick comment: 3/4" drawersides are completely uncommon and unnecessary.