Interesting points, probably true. As an OBTW, wasn't it BMW that initiated the FIVE-point star fasteners? I could be mis-remembering. I think the only place I ever ran into those in real life (mine, anyway) was the Leatherman Wave.
BMW has patented a new screw head designed to prevent non-dealer repairs
- Thread starter Packard
- Start date
Cheese
Member
I thought Textron developed the 5-lobe fastener...just a variation of the 6-lobe Torx that they also developed. And then Apple joined in at some point.
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In most residential areas, at least around here, water shut off valves are covered by cast iron caps. All of the ones I have seen have a pentagon shaped bolt head. Some are an actual thread, others are just a cam/lever, holding the cap on.
It's supposed to be a security thing, though not highly secure. A simple pair of Vice-Grips can defeat it, but it looks like it's doing something.
I have never seen the proper tool for sale, even on tool trucks, not that I was looking. Then I found one, laying right on the side of the road. This pic is a bunch of random stuff I found cycling around town. I have been a bit lacking lately, but I used to commute to work along with regular exercise riding, putting down several hundred miles a month. The number of things falling (or being thrown) from cars, is surprising. Some of it is not safe to retrieve, some is pretty interesting.
Wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets, phones
Right near the middle is one of those pentagon sockets, must have fallen from a truck.
It's supposed to be a security thing, though not highly secure. A simple pair of Vice-Grips can defeat it, but it looks like it's doing something.
I have never seen the proper tool for sale, even on tool trucks, not that I was looking. Then I found one, laying right on the side of the road. This pic is a bunch of random stuff I found cycling around town. I have been a bit lacking lately, but I used to commute to work along with regular exercise riding, putting down several hundred miles a month. The number of things falling (or being thrown) from cars, is surprising. Some of it is not safe to retrieve, some is pretty interesting.
Wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets, phones
Right near the middle is one of those pentagon sockets, must have fallen from a truck.
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Michael Kellough
Member
If you want a pentagon socket choose your size. Not sure what you measure to find the size.
Packard
Member
I was always lead to believe that the pentagon end post on fire hydrants was meant to defeat opening hydrants in the heat of the summer that was the relief of city children. As mentioned, that defense was easily defeated. (In defense of the authorities, they were concerned about the loss of water pressure that opening the valves would create. But a solution was at hand
)
Adjustable hydrant wrenches are available.
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luvmytoolz
Member
The whole right to repair lobbying came around pretty much because of John Deere not allowing farmers to work on and maintain or fix the equipment they own, and the strangle hold Apple put not only on the "authorised repairers" but also the underhanded tactics they used to control equivalent parts being imported by general repairers. I would venture that Louis is probably the most qualified Apple repairer in the world, as he fixes products down to the IC level, whereas Apple would require the customer to buy an entire new main board at a minimum.
He had one well viewed episode where a known fault existed with a flying lead connector that would stop the system booting. Apple told the customer it was a $1000-1500 or so repair (from memory), Louis bought the replacement cable for a few dollars and fixed it. This especially is why right to repair is such an important basic right for things YOU own.
Michael Kellough
Member
I still have a 2020 MacBook Pro sitting around (together with a replacement graphics board) due to constant kernel panics etc. Just watched one of Louis’s videos on this particular subject and learned that the board isn’t bad it’s just a single tantalum capacitor that needs to be replaced with a non-tantalum version. I’m thinking about getting it fixed just for the hell of it.
The Touch Bar MBP that replaced it died after a few years (after Apple Care expired) from swollen batteries. Never had that problem before and we started with the Powerbook Duo, then Pismo, and so on. The replacement for the swollen battery MPB is a 2023 14” MBP that is still going strong, so far, knock-on-wood.
onocoffee
Member
@Michael Kellough I think it would be worth getting the 2020 up and running again - even for limited tasks. While my main computer is a much more recent M2 Mac Mini (maybe 2024) which I will use for photo and video editing, my main laptop that I use for surfing the web is a 2013 MacBookAir that I bought when new. And I run my livestreams off of a 2015 MacBookPro. So, there should be some good life left in that 2020.
Mini Me
Member
A laptop is one thing but a million dollar header with electronic control is totally another. As I wrote above, they can have the RtR but it won't do the average farmer any good because he hasn't got the training to diagnose and repair such a complex piece of equipment.
I hate that the farmers are so affected by this. There have been numerous stories about a piece of farm equipment breaking down during harvest and then the headaches of dealing with John Deere when they just need to finish.
Going to the MacBook aspect, my original MacBook Pro was a 2010. I ended up having two hard drive crashes and then actually went to Ebay and purchased the same model reconditioned in 2016 to make sure I wouldn't have any issues restoring from Time Machine. I ended up creating a partition so that I could use it with the software I had on it originally and then also with the most recent that it could handle. I still use that for non-internet stuff. Otherwise I have a 2 year old and 3 year old MacBook Pro. I hate that everything is now integrated unlike my original, but I do prefer the Mac experience so I am stuck.
Peter
Going to the MacBook aspect, my original MacBook Pro was a 2010. I ended up having two hard drive crashes and then actually went to Ebay and purchased the same model reconditioned in 2016 to make sure I wouldn't have any issues restoring from Time Machine. I ended up creating a partition so that I could use it with the software I had on it originally and then also with the most recent that it could handle. I still use that for non-internet stuff. Otherwise I have a 2 year old and 3 year old MacBook Pro. I hate that everything is now integrated unlike my original, but I do prefer the Mac experience so I am stuck.
Peter
luvmytoolz
Member
We have a small subset of clients from an acquisition that are mainly elderly that tend to use Apple gear, and almost every time they have a hardware issue with an Apple product and bring it to the Apple store, the first thing they're told without fail is all the data on the machine will be lost as a result of repairs. Causes them so much angst at the thought of losing everything they have on it. Louis has proved time and time again this is mostly just BS and laziness on their part. In the Linux or Windows world, unless the hard disk has actually died and swapping the controller board doesn't work, there's absolutely no reason to lose any data even if the entire machine is dead.
The interesting thing with my oldest - and first - MacBook was that after the hard drive issues I went to the Apple Store and was asking for help on how to set up the dual partitions. They told me it couldn't be done. I had read about it and I explained that software developers did it all the time when Apple came out with new versions of their OS. After going to the secret back of the store for 20 minutes he came out and was able to succeed. They did this free of charge and he actually thanked me for bringing in something different that taught him something new. In the end I ended up losing three years worth of stuff after the Time Machine stopped backing up for some reason although there was plenty of storage space available.
Peter
Peter
luvmytoolz
Member
I can't tell you how often we come across this with acquaintances and clients. We've dealt with so many people that have lost the only copy of all of their commercial work, or a lifetime of family photos, email, etc, and it's always so devastating to them.
One particularly sad case was a bloke who ran a drafting business, and some numbskull "IT Expert" had setup backups of all his work, to another partition on the same disk!
Of course the disk died horribly and was unrecoverable. 15+ years of drafting work lost, including active projects.
onocoffee
Member
Those who have been pushing the Right To Repair have been pushing for the RtR to include access to the equipment to diagnose the issues, along with the parts and other pertinent service information. As always, the question is whether or not the individual is technically capable. However, this is akin to let's say older, non-computerized tractors that farmers have been able to service in the field. Some farmers have that capability while others may not. But the point is that they can, should they desire to do so. This is what's missing in modern equipment - the "owner" is beholden to the corporation.
leakyroof
Member
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- Mar 23, 2011
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- 2,574
Yes, the amount of info that's withheld by Automotive Companies to even their dealers can get tricky at times. I've run into different sorts of circumstances over the years, watching posted On-Line technical info get scrubbed off the company server that was so helpful for a particular problem on a given model.
Or there's 'quiet' campaigns that you as a Tech don't know about until you ask for help on a given issue, and then find out it's a known issue with the Company, but they're reluctant to put out a Service Bulletin on it since 'legal' hasn't decided how to phrase the issue with the Public or Government. So unless you stumbled across it and asked for help with Technical, you don't know the issue even exists.
There's no way the owner public finds out about these issues at their end of the Retail Market unless someone informs them. So, info not freely shared, tools too expensive for a one time use to bother buying for a job, parts in short supply sometimes even withheld from Dealers being able to see how many are available for sale to the Dealers - which I've seen in several Car Makers doing to their Dealers.
Michael Kellough
Member
I watched a couple of the Louis Rossmann videos and and in an early one (he had more hair) he mentioned a paid subscription website where independent computer techs post information they have discovered that is not available from the manufacturers.
Mini Me
Member
Not likely. My son who is a diagnostic technician on electric/hybrid vehicles told me that BMW are just catching up to other manufacturers who have been using speciality hard to remove fasteners for years mainly on control modules they don't want unqualified idiots getting into.
onocoffee
Member
Another aspect of Right To Repair is ownership. Earlier this month, it seems that Porsches across Russia suddenly stopped working because a malicious signal was sent to them. What this really brings forward is whether or not your car is your car. If a company can just brick your car, for whatever reason and at whatever time, then do you really "own" it?
www.the-independent.com
Porsches across Russia suddenly stop working
‘It’s possible this was done deliberately,’ says car dealership
www.the-independent.com