Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop

[Svar]

That's all conjecture all around frankly and admittedly shows my general disdain for SawStop and its owner.

The table saw that some folks love to hate.

I dare say that it's not the saws, which happen to be very well made; it's the owner of the company that draws fire due to his business practices.

That "fire" is most certainly disproportionate considering the "business practice" episode that took place 10 years ago. Case closed, lesson learned. Give it a rest. Most of the big business done worse things than that without drawing much attention. Give Guss some credit for delivering revolutionary product and waking saw makers out of coma. Without him competitors like Reaxx would not have been on the market today.

 

[Paul G]

That "fire" is most certainly disproportionate considering the "business practice" episode that took place 10 years ago. Case closed, lesson learned. Give it a rest. Most of the big business done worse things than that without drawing much attention. Give Guss some credit for delivering revolutionary product and waking saw makers out of coma. Without him competitors like Reaxx would not have been on the market today.

That's pretty much my take on things as well. I not only give him credit but also some business. I hope the Bosch meets expectations for those who choose it, good to have options.

 

[Cheese]

Actually, it's great to have options...you make your bed and you lie in it. 

 

[Paul G]

Actually, it's great to have options...you make your bed and you lie in it.

Ironically, some new beds are projects that I'll likely use my sawstop on, and I'll even lay in them  [cool].

 

[bigjonh]

Hmmm, now do I buy a reaxx? Or 1/3 of a Mafell Erica?  [tongue]

 

[Holmz]

Hmmm, now do I buy a reaxx? Or 1/3 of a Mafell Erica?  [tongue]

If you have a Kapex or CMS, then the relaax seems logical.

But Reaxx and Kapex must be more than 1/3 Erika if the Reaxx alone is 1/3-Erika

 

[jamanjeval]

If you activate this 25 times or more while using it you should never be allowed to use a table saw again.
[/quote]

You're assuming that each activation is due to the blade sensing actual flesh. Yes, if you actually touch the blade 25 times, you probably should not use a table saw. However, there can be false activations due to cutting wet wood or conductive materials like aluminum foil clad foam insulation board.

25 activations seem like a lot, but I predict that some users are going to hit this number easily with all of them being triggered by non-flesh contact.

 

[jeh]

If you activate this 25 times or more while using it you should never be allowed to use a table saw again.

You're assuming that each activation is due to the blade sensing actual flesh. Yes, if you actually touch the blade 25 times, you probably should not use a table saw. However, there can be false activations due to cutting wet wood or conductive materials like aluminum foil clad foam insulation board.

25 activations seem like a lot, but I predict that some users are going to hit this number easily with all of them being triggered by non-flesh contact.

If it activates on non-flesh contact then it's an inferior product when compared to a SawStop. I do agree there could be some occurrences where it could misfire such as wet wood and other materials. Of course you would rather have a false positive misfire in any case. I've had a SawStop since 2006 and have never had a misfire. Given the Bosch is mobile it will have a lot more opportunity to have damp wood run through it, but it does have a bypass for those times.

I do agree that if someone activates this 25 times or more while using it you should never be allowed to use a table saw again or you have a defective tablesaw. The advantage of the Reaxx is that a tripping does not damage the blade. This is a true advantage if the trip was inadvertent, however if it was a finger save the operator needs to stand down for at least a day. Swapping out the cartridge and continuing to work on the saw is insane.

 

[Shane Holland]

Swapping out the cartridge and continuing to work on the saw is insane.

The cartridges can be used twice. You pull it out and flip it over and you're back in action. So, that's another benefit.

Of course, if you trip it twice, you'll need a new cartridge.

 

[rljatl]

Re. Bosch Reaxx table saw - The fence is much better than Saw Stop's.  It is aluminum under the removable plastic, self-aligning, locks front and rear and has a t-track on top that allows for the Jessem table saw clear cut guides to be used (I think - will test them as soon as they arrive).

No special cartridge needed to use a dado blade.

The only negative I have found so far is the saw blade tilt mechanism is difficult to use,  but it is a job site saw and that's why I bought the Beall Tilt Box ii.

Otherwise,  it seems to be the perfect compliment to a track saw for the small shop.

 

[jkasten101]

this is my first post, and in a weird location, but I had heard that Bosch had been sued by sawstop and that all the bosch saws where to be recalled?  maybe im wrong...OH and im glad to be here!

 

[rljatl]

this is my first post, and in a weird location, but I had heard that Bosch had been sued by sawstop and that all the bosch saws where to be recalled?  maybe im wrong...OH and im glad to be here!

SawStop did sue Bosch.  Saws have not been recalled.  ToolNut has them. 

I have been very satisfied with my Reaxx table saw.  I had a jet 3hp cabinet saw a few years ago that I sold due a shortage of space.  After registering my saw for warranty purposes, Bosch sent me a set of replacement cartridges free of charge.  My saw has never tripped the safety mechanism and I hope it never does.

Here's the latest from Bosch:

"Although Bosch does not normally discuss details of litigation because we feel it is best handled in the context of the legal proceedings, we have seen statements about litigation concerning the Bosch REAXX™ Jobsite Table Saw that give a misleading impression of what has occurred.

At this time legal proceedings are still under way. The International Trade Commission (ITC) will review the initial determination provided by the Administrative Law Judge on Sept. 9, 2016, as well as additional arguments from the parties, before it makes any decision in the matter. The commission’s decision is not expected until early January 2017. Contrary to any other implication, the patent legal proceedings are ongoing and not final.

The Bosch REAXX Jobsite Table Saw is based on patented technology developed by the Power Tool Institute and the engineering team at Robert Bosch Tool Corp. in Mount Prospect, Ill. We believe that advanced REAXX safety technology does not violate any competitor’s intellectual property rights.

It is disappointing that a competitor is continuing its campaign to stop the sale of patented REAXX technology to consumers. The patents asserted against REAXX are based on applications filed more than 15 years ago; Bosch does not believe they apply to REAXX technology. In addition, Bosch believes that if the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office had complete information it would not have issued certain patents in the first place.

Bosch has vigorously defended, and will continue to defend, its ability to make REAXX table saws available in the United States. In addition, Bosch will continue to pursue its own claim of patent infringement against the competitor filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.

The ongoing litigation has no effect on distributors’ ability to buy or sell Bosch REAXX table saws. REAXX cartridges, accessories and service parts are available. The Bosch commitment to provide safe products to users is critical today and in the future."
# # #

 

[antss]

This seems to be a new twist in the arguement.

Bosch claiming that some of SS's Patent(s) shouldn't have been issued because Bosch had previously patented the idea ???

This will get really juicy if thats correct and not just a PR offensive.  Kinda makes me wonder if the judge's latest ruling accounted for that arguement and denied it  or if it's new territority.

Popcorn anyone ?

 

[Michael Kellough]

This seems to be a new twist in the arguement.

Bosch claiming that some of SS's Patent(s) shouldn't have been issued because Bosch had previously patented the idea ???

This will get really juicy if thats correct and not just a PR offensive.  Kinda makes me wonder if the judge's latest ruling accounted for that arguement and denied it  or if it's new territority.

Popcorn anyone ?

Not what it means.

"The patents asserted against REAXX are based on applications filed more than 15 years ago; Bosch does not believe they apply to REAXX technology. In addition, Bosch believes that if the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office had complete information it would not have issued certain patents in the first place."

 

[jimbo51]

In case someone has not seen recent news, the initial ruling in the lawsuit was in favor of Sawstop.

 

[Cheese]

In case someone has not seen recent news, the initial ruling in the lawsuit was in favor of Sawstop.

Wow that's interesting...and surprising. Is there a link available?

 

[jimbo51]

I have not learned link posting yet.  I Googled sawstop lawsuit recent results. Perhaps someone else can help

 

[tjbnwi]

In case someone has not seen recent news, the initial ruling in the lawsuit was in favor of Sawstop.

Wow that's interesting...and surprising. Is there a link available?

It is what reply 191 is referring to.
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/13/sawstop-initial-victory-lawsuit-bosch

Tom

 

[RKA]

In case someone has not seen recent news, the initial ruling in the lawsuit was in favor of Sawstop.

That was the ruling by an Administrative Law Judge in the Bosch quote above.  That quote in its entirety neatly summarizes the current status.  This will carry on for some time, meanwhile Bosch seems to have the ability to continue selling their competing tech.

 

[Cheese]

It is what reply 191 is referring to.
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/13/sawstop-initial-victory-lawsuit-bosch

Thanks Tom...

Interesting things to note, from the Power Tool Institute:
...operators are nearly five times more likely to contact the saw blade of a SawStop saw as opposed to the operator of a conventional table saw.http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pti-pages/it-table-saw-facts.asp

Bosch's response:http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/15/bosch-responds-sawstop-lawsuit