Brines M10-A10 MLT Speaker Build.

[iamnothim]

Finished side one.
Side two is in the clamps.
I love my shooting board for mitering small pieces. [smile]

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[iamnothim]

Working on the dry fit of the front,back, and baffles.  I am very happy with the results.  Once again the MFS400 was indispensable.
With the alignment foot I was able to clamp it at a perfect 90 to put dominos in the field.

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[Wuffles]

What's with the second pair of dominos under the top at the back?

 

[GarryMartin]

You might try double stick tape on a sacrificial surface to hold the disappearing disk.

Haven't used double-sided tape on templates etc. for quite a while now after finding this gem of a tip involving masking tape and super glue. Thoroughly recommended.

 

[johnleve]

This is a neat project, looking forward to seeing the final result. 

Here is how I have handled cutting holes in the past: use a circle jig to cut 3/4 of the way through the material.  Use hole saw or jigsaw to cut through the remaining material making sure to stay on the waste side.  Use flush trim router bit to finish off the hole.  It has always ended up being perfect for me and avoids the issue of the disappearing support and pivot point.

I have built a few myself in the past, albeit much more basic than what you are doing, and had great fun.  I was able to build my current speakers into my built in entertainment center.  They look better than if they were separate and they sound fantastic, better than anything I have ever heard.

If anyone is interested I think that Zlaytron is a great place to order drivers from.  The Focal drivers I have ordered from them in the past are incredible.  They also have crossover components and will design a system for you based upon your needs.  I had a little trouble with making the crossovers even though sent me diagrams, they were far more complicated than the electronic crossovers I was used to using.  They don't keep the website updated so it is probably best to call.  I am sure there are many other great places, I just get a real kick out of ordering from an old school company.

One more thing to consider is that some of these speakers draw a lot more power than the ones you would tend to buy at a Best Buy.  I had a decent amp that was only a few years old, had no problem handling the old speakers.  I had to turn it up really high to drive the new  speakers I made and you could hear that the amp was not liking it and/or it was really not a very good amp.  I upgrade to a Marantz and have been extremely pleased ever since.  I was not expecting to have to spend the money on the amp, fortunately for me it was when Best Buy was on the verge of collapse and I was able to get the thing as an open box for about 1/5 of the MSRP.

 

[iamnothim]

What's with the second pair of dominos under the top at the back?

Those are spares.  I love making dominos so much I always put in a few extra. [smile]

Actually the top is double thick, but I didn't calc the thickness/position correctly, so that panel will be butt glued to the top.
I also managed to auger some holes clear through the front.  Forgot to change the depth.  Thankfully there's veneer.

 

[iamnothim]

This is a neat project, looking forward to seeing the final result. 

Here is how I have handled cutting holes in the past: use a circle jig to cut 3/4 of the way through the material.  Use hole saw or jigsaw to cut through the remaining material making sure to stay on the waste side.  Use flush trim router bit to finish off the hole.  It has always ended up being perfect for me and avoids the issue of the disappearing support and pivot point.

As long as the center waste is secure, you are golden.  Everything is done in one step with one tool.  I consider the pivot point on the MFS400 a huge benefit as the tool moves as you pull the extrusion.  No hose/cord tangles.  It is dead on accurate.  And you can use it for a lot of other things.

If anyone is interested I think that Zlaytron is a great place to order drivers from.  The Focal drivers I have ordered from them in the past are incredible.  They also have crossover components and will design a system for you based upon your needs.  I had a little trouble with making the crossovers even though sent me diagrams, they were far more complicated than the electronic crossovers I was used to using.  They don't keep the website updated so it is probably best to call.  I am sure there are many other great places, I just get a real kick out of ordering from an old school company.

I like Madisound a lot.  They carry higher end products.  I purchased some specialty Mundorf caps from them when I was building the 300B.  They have a very wide range of drivers, and parts.  Everything necessary to build some great speakers.

Keep in mind the Brines MLT speaker enclosure is engineered specifically for the Markaudio Alpair 10M.  There's a lot of physics involved in matching the two.  The 300B was able to drive Thiel CS1.5 3-way speakers ....barely.  They are rated 4Ω 50-150W.  I added an Adcom Pre-Amp and they really opened up.  A pre-amp is for weak inbound source signals.  Just as most turntables and stylus require a phono-pre-amp.  The Alpair 10M are 8Ω 30W.  Although the SPL's are almost equal.  From my understanding the 8Ω speaker should be much easier for the 300B to drive.  I am hoping to eliminate the pre-amp.  The shorter the circuit path the better.  And that's one of the benefits of a single driver MLT.  No crossover circuit.

Here's what Bob Brines says about the pluses and minuses of a single driver.  He is very direct.  His web site, as well, couldn't be more old school.

"Who Should Use Single Driver Speakers?"
"Single-driver speakers are not for everyone. Single-driver speakers are about finesse, not power. Any speaker, single-driver, 2-way, 3-way, whatever, is a compromise. Each will have sonic advantages and failings. Therefore, you will wind up choosing speakers that work well with the bulk of your library and OK with the rest. There just isn't a speaker out there that plays everything well.

Again, single-driver speakers are about finesse. They provide a special purity of tone without the phasing problems inherent with multi-way cross-overs. The human ear is particularly sensitive to phase in the 300-3000Hz band. This is how we locate sounds in space. While the combined phase of a multi-way speaker may sum flat, we can still hear the phase rotation of each driver as it enters the cross-over range. This phase rotation confuses the ear, causing a lack of definition to the sound. A single-driver speaker obviously doesn't have this problem and the mid-range of a single-driver speaker is unexcelled.

But, of course, there is a trade-off. The nemesis of single-driver speakers is frequency modulation (FM) of the upper ranges by the bass. (Doppler distortion is a type of FM distortion, not the other way around.) A higher frequency becomes a warble tone, the frequency and depth of the warble depending on the frequency and driver displacement of the bass tone. The result is when there are many bass frequencies in the music, as the music becomes loud (more driver excursion) the upper ranges become harsh and tonally indistinct. The driver "falls apart".

How bad is the FM distortion on a single-driver speaker? It depends! Music with simple bass lines never sound better than on a single-driver speaker. Jazz trio, girl-and-a guitar, classical chamber music. If you listen to your music a moderate levels -- ~70dB and the listening chair 6-8feet from the speakers, you can play almost anything. Music to avoid: Hard rock, most anything mastered this century for radio and ear-buds, romantic symphonies at concert levels.

So you have been warned. If you are into polite genre and moderate levels, my speakers are for you. If you are into heavy, loud music, you need to look elsewhere.

One more thing to consider is that some of these speakers draw a lot more power than the ones you would tend to buy at a Best Buy.  I had a decent amp that was only a few years old, had no problem handling the old speakers.  I had to turn it up really high to drive the new  speakers I made and you could hear that the amp was not liking it and/or it was really not a very good amp.  I upgrade to a Marantz and have been extremely pleased ever since.  I was not expecting to have to spend the money on the amp, fortunately for me it was when Best Buy was on the verge of collapse and I was able to get the thing as an open box for about 1/5 of the MSRP."

The 300B and a Marantz are really apples and oranges.  Tube amplification is analog.  The speaker cones move, and this is difficult to describe, in a sinusoidal fashion rather than solid state amps where the cone moves like a square wave.  Jiggly versus precise.  Except I don't like precise in this case.  Very much like digitized music rather than vinyl.  This is one of the most subjective hobbies going.  It's challenging non-technical folks to determine what's fact and what's fiction.  Even engineers disagree.  Some claim to hear a difference, others think it's snake oil and every system sounds the same.  Just depends on your passion.

 

[mike_aa]

[member=28483]iamnothim[/member]
Luke, this is a crazy cool thread!  I feel like you skyrocketed this thread up to the exosphere while I'm still down here in the stratosphere!  [eek]  Way beyond my comprehension, but I love reading your stuff.

[member=11629]GarryMartin[/member]
Thanks for posting the video on the masking tape/super glue tip.  Really brilliant idea.

Mike A.

 

[iamnothim]

[member=28483]iamnothim[/member]
Luke, this is a crazy cool thread!  I feel like you skyrocketed this thread up to the exosphere while I'm still down here in the stratosphere!  [eek]  Way beyond my comprehension, but I love reading your stuff.

@GaryMartin
Thanks for posting the video on the masking tape/super glue tip.  Really brilliant idea.

Mike A.

Here's the thing.  I don 't know what stuff I say is true and what isn't.

 

[iamnothim]

Two assemblies...
The last of the maple edges on the sides are drying.  Tomorrow I'll plane them flush and work on the fit.  Then I begin working on the plinth.

The speakers arrive thurs. afternoon, the veneer fri.
I am really looking forward to veneering again.

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[johnleve]

Here are some photos of the sound bar / speakers that I last built.  They were part of a builtin so the wood species was chosen to match the trim already in the house.  This post has really inspired me that one of my next projects should be to build some standalone speakers for music, the sound bar is really intended for television and movies.  I hope others receive similar inspiration.  I cannot think of anyone that doesn't get some enjoyment out of music and this type of project is incredibly rewarding in my opinion.

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[iamnothim]

[member=22405]johnleve[/member]
OUTSTANDING JOB!

 

[Cheese]

Here's what Bob Brines says about the pluses and minuses of a single driver.  He is very direct.  His web site, as well, couldn't be more old school.
Again, single-driver speakers are about finesse. They provide a special purity of tone without the phasing problems inherent with multi-way cross-overs. The human ear is particularly sensitive to phase in the 300-3000Hz band. This is how we locate sounds in space. While the combined phase of a multi-way speaker may sum flat, we can still hear the phase rotation of each driver as it enters the cross-over range. This phase rotation confuses the ear, causing a lack of definition to the sound. A single-driver speaker obviously doesn't have this problem and the mid-range of a single-driver speaker is unexcelled.

Curiously enough, this sounds like the mechanical version of the Magneplanar speaker. The Magneplanar had similar timbres in it's reproduction capabilities and it was always considered to be a symphonic reproducer as opposed to be a rock reproduction system. Inherent in it's reproduction capabilities, it was noted for its pristine reproduction of the higher frequencies, while it was always lacking in producing substantial lower frequencies. 

 

[Wuffles]

What's with the second pair of dominos under the top at the back?

Those are spares.  I love making dominos so much I always put in a few extra. [smile]

Actually the top is double thick, but I didn't calc the thickness/position correctly, so that panel will be butt glued to the top.
I also managed to auger some holes clear through the front.  Forgot to change the depth.  Thankfully there's veneer.

I like spares. And curious depth changes. I need someone with an authoritative voice just watching me when I domino.

[member=11629]GarryMartin[/member] handy tip, shame it took the guy 12 mins to explain it  [eek] - I guess I'm too used to DiResta imparting knowledge at the speed of a Max Headroom blipvert.

 

[JeremyH.]

Oh boy... audiophiles here too huh?

It could be bad I came upon this thread... The last guy who built one of my items came out like this

 

[iamnothim]

Oh boy... audiophiles here too huh?

It could be bad I came upon this thread... The last guy who built one of my items came out like this

Was he invited to the White House?

oops.  my bad
[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member]
better keep an eye on this thread Marshal Peter.  It could go bad in a hurry.

 

[johnleve]

Oh boy... audiophiles here too huh?

It could be bad I came upon this thread... The last guy who built one of my items came out like this

I am guessing that with the receptacles on the front that this is some type of power cleanser?  I have never seen much value in them, do they come more into play when using analog amplification?  I have never understood how they could improve a digital amplifier given how they work but I might not understand it well enough so I could be wrong.

 

[JeremyH.]

Done correctly they make everything much better. There's a few common mistake among even the biggest manufacturers of them, and they don't even implement some of the best stuff!

They benefit digital the most, but that said there is "digital amplification" but perhaps you mean class D. Hypex SMPS modules are difficult to do power conditioning correctly with, as there's a simple mistake made by them and power conditioning companies that snowballs into bad sound.

Number ### 1 !! Misunderstanding is that you're buying a power conditioner because you hear "noise" from the speaker. Nope, nada, worthless thought. That's more of a design problem with your equipment or implementation if you hear anything besides vinyl sound or if your hear is next to speaker you might hear something. Power conditioning is removing the affects of noise on your music reproduction. So what actually happens is it's improving the music you hear, not removing artifacts that are heard with the music (which almost no one has unless something is very wrong).

Number 2. I think I've got clean power! *cough* bull. It doesn't matter if you run a separate line, live in the most ideal spot, etc... it's in the air just as much as on the line from somewhere else in the house and it doesn't stop there because your equipment will share noise between appliances within your stereo [scared].

I do some other things, PSU's, amps, stuff. My recent amp bested an Aleph J and F5. It's all too much fun. I probably shouldn't be surprised people that like Festool aren't satisfied with a boombox.

 

[iamnothim]

Okie Dokie Folks

We've wandered too far off the Wood/speaker path and devolved into a pure audio thread.
I ask that we bring her back on coarse.

There's a "General Discussions" section on FOG with topics like photography and whatnot.

Thanks

Luke

 

[iamnothim]

Curiously enough, this sounds like the mechanical version of the Magneplanar speaker. The Magneplanar had similar timbres in it's reproduction capabilities and it was always considered to be a symphonic reproducer as opposed to be a rock reproduction system. Inherent in it's reproduction capabilities, it was noted for its pristine reproduction of the higher frequencies, while it was always lacking in producing substantial lower frequencies.

It's going to be Real Interesting to hear them.  A real roll of the dice.