Brines M10-A10 MLT Speaker Build.

[Tayler_mann]

I have to say I have never really gotten into hand tools to much. I have a Stanley plane and chisels. I have never sharpened the plane and it works like a champ for what I do with it. I have sharpened the chisels but nevet used a jig or anything just a stone and my hand. My mentor always frowned on them and said, "Why do you think we invented electricity!" I do respect the tools just never use them.

[member=28483]iamnothim[/member]

What's the final verdict for your material choice and build for your casings?

Here's my shop makeshift iPod dock. I need another set of parts to build the second for stereo than build a nice case for them so I don't accidently touch the wrong part and kill myself.

 

[iamnothim]

Tayler "never"?  Incredible.

I have never sharpened the plane and it works like a champ for what I do with it.

Do you use it to slice the Gouda before kickoff???

I couldn't tackle my projects without chisels and planes.  I love my planes.  If they weren't razor sharp..... worthless.  Especially figured wood.  I think my favorite tool is my shooting board.  I love my shooting board.  I have an idea to have one fabricated from AL...  maybe.

Here's my shop makeshift iPod dock. I need another set of parts to build the second for stereo than build a nice case for them so I don't accidently touch the wrong part and kill myself.

Pretty cool.  Are those 6N6P's?

The sides will be solid quilted maple to match the fronts.

 

[Tayler_mann]

Tayler "never"?  Incredible.

I have never sharpened the plane and it works like a champ for what I do with it.

Do you use it to slice the Gouda before kickoff???

I couldn't tackle my projects without chisels and planes.  I love my planes.  If they weren't razor sharp..... worthless.  Especially figured wood.  I think my favorite tool is my shooting board.  I love my shooting board.  I have an idea to have one fabricated from AL...  maybe.

Here's my shop makeshift iPod dock. I need another set of parts to build the second for stereo than build a nice case for them so I don't accidently touch the wrong part and kill myself.

Pretty cool.  Are those 6N6P's?

The sides will be solid quilted maple to match the fronts.

I guess I've never had the need for expensive chisels and planes. I have also had access to wide belt sanders, drum sanders and other large machinery since i started wood working. Also my mentor has the crappiest set of chisels you would ever see and an old rusted out saw and he can cut dovetails better than anyone I have seen. oddly enough when I get my Stanley hand plane tuned just right it'll take a nice clean cut off a boards edge with no tear out and for facing boards I use a Rotex or use a wide belt that I have access to that is free of charge. I also have access to a drum sander and both of the sanders regularly have 220 on them so the Rotex cleans that in a hurry. Maybe one day I will get into the fine hand tools and cash in my cheapos but for now they work well for the work given to them.

For everything else there's the OF 1400.  [big grin] (in most instances after that statement MasterCard should be included instead of OF 1400)

The tubes in that amp are 11MS8 I believe. I though about doing some mods and making the amp have a bit more gut but it honestly sounded incredible for the $75-100 of parts it took. I figured if I want to spend the money on a tube amp it would be mono blocks for my turntable to make that vinyl shine like it was back in 70's and actually have an amp with enough power to drive my phase techs.

I don't know about the hardwood for the speakers. I'll leave my opinion at that as this is a respectable thread and am enjoying it quite a lot.

 

[iamnothim]

Old Stanley hand planes are amazing. (Ditto old Diston/Pearson hand saws)  I'm not saying they need to be new.  I've got 4 from the 1950's - 1960's    It's cool you have access to all the equipment.  Learning to master hand tools is a skill I long to acquire.  It's a tactile experience; like opening an LP jacket, placing the vinyl on the turntable, dropping the stylus, and reading the jacket while listening via a nice valve amp.  Power tools are like mp3's on solid state..

I don't know about the hardwood for the speakers. I'll leave my opinion at that as this is a respectable thread and am enjoying it quite a lot.

Yes I know....  tradeoffs.  I'm late 50's and my hearing is headed southbound at a high rate of speed.  I don't go to meets or stores, so I don't have much of a reference point.  That's a very very good thing for my wallet.  The goal with the Brines MLT L's is to look good and sound descent "To Me".  Tactile, organic listening..... in my own little vacuum.  Example....Instead of exotic high performance car.... envision a guy driving a Rat Rod Lakester.

It turns out this "Mass Loaded Transmission Line Speaker" (aka Quarter Wave), design is it's own little hobby unto itself.  There's not much in googled material about how they sound, but there's terabytes of mathematical equations.  Martin King  seems to be the MLTL corner stone for these speakers.  Tom Christiansen of Neurochrome also has a bunch of information on MLT's.  Tom designs audio gear as a part time business.  He designed and made the boards for my 300B.

 

[Bohdan]

I ordered 4lb of Acousta Stuff
They have specific directions got MLT speakers.  That did it for me.

The material that you put into a loudspeaker enclosure has multiple uses. The resonance dampening lining is used to kill the box wall resonances (rattles) and usually the standing wave resonances. The thick fluffy stuff is used to insulated the air in the box. This affects the speed of sound in the box and effectively lowers the boxes resonance frequency which in turn lowers the bass response frequency.

It is most effective when you completely fill the box. The thin fiberglass layer that is usually stapled to the inside of the box in cheap speakers has very little acoustic value. A quick improvement to most cheap speakers is to fill the box with a light fluffed up insulating material like Dacron or long wool. If the box rattles then line it with the heavy adhesive sound absorbing material.

 

[Cheese]

Power tools are like mp3's on solid state..

That's funny...

 

[iamnothim]

The material that you put into a loudspeaker enclosure has multiple uses. The resonance dampening lining is used to kill the box wall resonances (rattles) and usually the standing wave resonances. The thick fluffy stuff is used to insulated the air in the box. This affects the speed of sound in the box and effectively lowers the boxes resonance frequency which in turn lowers the bass response frequency.

It is most effective when you completely fill the box. The thin fiberglass layer that is usually stapled to the inside of the box in cheap speakers has very little acoustic value. A quick improvement to most cheap speakers is to fill the box with a light fluffed up insulating material like Dacron or long wool. If the box rattles then line it with the heavy adhesive sound absorbing material.

Thanks for the information.  It's really the first information on the topic that I've been able to follow.  I'm slowly collecting tidbits of info on these speakers.  I bought four lbs. of Acousta Stuf from Madisound.  The link is to the Acousta Stuff instructions.  The instruction say exactly what you said.  For transmission line speakers fill the entire box.  Brines however, said line the top and two sides.  That presents a dilemma.

The boxes are 2 cubic feet each, so I should be able to take either route.  The design has a hole in the bottom with the plinth screwed on.  I didn't like that a lot so I made the bottom solid and II was going to permanently attach the plinth so there wasn't any vibration.  Now I think I'll cut a hole in the bottom so I can adjust the stuffing.  When it's done I'll glue and screw the plinth on.

Speaking of screws.
I've been a little nervous about getting a tight long lasting seal between the sides and the front/back/baffles.  I put dominos in the plywood so I'm going to have to transfer those positions to the quilted maple sides.  I think I'm going use screws as well.  I'll cut plugs to mask the screws.  I know they'll still be visible but I'll have the peace of mind that they won't come off.  I especially want a good bond in the middle of the cabinet to the internal baffles.  It's hard to clamp that area.  So I'm choosing function over form.  The grain on the maple is pretty busy, which should help.

 

[johnleve]

Speaking of screws.
I've been a little nervous about getting a tight long lasting seal between the sides and the front/back/baffles.  I put dominos in the plywood so I'm going to have to transfer those positions to the quilted maple sides.  I think I'm going use screws as well.  I'll cut plugs to mask the screws.  I know they'll still be visible but I'll have the peace of mind that they won't come off.  I especially want a good bond in the middle of the cabinet to the internal baffles.  It's hard to clamp that area.  So I'm choosing function over form.  The grain on the maple is pretty busy, which should help.

While not the strongest of connections you might consider pocket screws from the inside if you can.  The pocket is easily filled with their special plugs and they are easy to cut flush after the glue has dried. 

I used bolts and threaded insert to hold on the backs of mine, allows easy access and with a little searching you can find hardware that gives a nice industrial or retro look.  I just used hex cap bolts, same style I used to affix the drivers in place and I think it turned out well.  Used some of that foam that you would use to weather seal a door as the gasket, it was compressed enough that I think it is airtight.  Used the blue locktite on all the bolts so they won't vibrate out although I am not sure that was a realistic concern.

 

[iamnothim]

Hi John
I have the deluxe Kreg jig.  I use them all the time.  They aren't an option here because I can't access / control them and they only work for one side.  On this project cap bolts ain't my thing.  Other projects yes. 

I've pretty much settled in on screws and plugs.  That will give me the mechanical leverage I need to pull the sides tight and keep them there.

I appreciate your posts.

Luke

 

[benwheeler]

.  Power tools are like mp3's on solid state..

GOOD power tools are like SACD..

 

[iamnothim]

Spent today truing up the quilted maple sides.  There wasn't a big selection of 12" wide 4/4 stock.  I took the best 3 out of 4.  I had one piece with a bow and slight twist and another that tapered in at the end so it wasn't wide enough.  I sistered an off cut there to fill the void.  I used a bandsaw to double cut the pieces on a curved line.  I think it will turn out ok.  Again, I didn't have a choice.

I was able to hand plane flat the twist/bow on one side then I ran it through the surface planer. That was a big accomplishment for me to save stock like that.

Lastly, extracted some soft dead material from the back of two pieces and filled them with Bondo.  All day project.

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[tms0425]

I use this material for most of my speaker builds. It seems to be quite effective for taming box resonances.

GR Research No Rez

 

[canadamike]

Hi Luke,

Back to your hand plane and sharpening. Did you flatten the back of the plane iron? Just wondering, as once this is done (one time process for every iron/chisel you own), it is a very fast process to get a sharp edge and keep it.

Maybe I missed a posting and you have this dialed in. If not, I'd be happy to help out.

Mike

 

[JeremyH.]

I use this material for most of my speaker builds. It seems to be quite effective for taming box resonances.

GR Research No Rez

I brought it up too, it's been considered superior by numerous people. I'll confirm that it works great as well.

 

[iamnothim]

Hi Luke,

Back to your hand plane and sharpening. Did you flatten the back of the plane iron? Just wondering, as once this is done (one time process for every iron/chisel you own), it is a very fast process to get a sharp edge and keep it.

Maybe I missed a posting and you have this dialed in. If not, I'd be happy to help out.

Mike

Hi Mike,
Hope all is well.
The irons are/were new.  Lie Nielsen and Veritas PM-V11.  Both say not to lap the irons because it's done for you.  What I do is, when I get a wire on the edge, I pull one or two strokes on the fine stone to remove it.  Then I strop the iron on leather with micro grit.

Here's what is happening with the MK-II honing guide, and this is a one time problem.  Unfortunately the jig I was using honed the blades at too steep of an angle.  In the illustration below let's say the old jig honed them to 33 deg.  The correct angle is 30 deg.  This means that when a 33 deg iron is chucked up in the jig at 30 deg you must remove all the material starting at the heal to get to the edge.  It's also true if the old edge isn't at 90.

It wouldn't be as bad it the old jig honed them too shallow.  Then you are honing from the edge to the heal and you don't have to remove all the material on the face.  Unless you want it all purdy.
Note.  When turned, the brass knob on the roller will set a micro bevel.

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[iamnothim]

I have the sides to the proper dimension and I chamfered the front and top edges.  I put the dominos in the correct spots for one box and it is ready to glue.  I will domino the other sides when this box is drying.

I went back and forth about using screws and plugs.  I ended up putting them down the middle because the clamps can't get there.  I bored a test plug first and thought it was acceptable.  Not optimal but I'd rather know the box is solid.

Still mulling over putting a hole in the bottom.  That would give me the ability to adjust the stuffing.

Speaking of stuffing....The GR Research No Rez is $40 for a 24" sq. piece.  That $10 a square foot.  It would be about $200 for both boxes.  I'll take my chances with Acoutsa Stuff.

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[johnleve]

I have the sides to the proper dimension and I chamfered the front and top edges.

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I really like this look, I know you had some frustrations but in my personal opinion I think they just keep getting better looking.  I look forward to when you get to tell us about how they sound!

 

[canadamike]

Hi Luke,

Back to your hand plane and sharpening. Did you flatten the back of the plane iron? Just wondering, as once this is done (one time process for every iron/chisel you own), it is a very fast process to get a sharp edge and keep it.

Maybe I missed a posting and you have this dialed in. If not, I'd be happy to help out.

Mike

Hi Mike,
Hope all is well.
The irons are/were new.  Lie Nielsen and Veritas PM-V11.  Both say not to lap the irons because it's done for you.  What I do is, when I get a wire on the edge, I pull one or two strokes on the fine stone to remove it.  Then I strop the iron on leather with micro grit.

Here's what is happening with the MK-II honing guide, and this is a one time problem.  Unfortunately the jig I was using honed the blades at too steep of an angle.  In the illustration below let's say the old jig honed them to 33 deg.  The correct angle is 30 deg.  This means that when a 33 deg iron is chucked up in the jig at 30 deg you must remove all the material starting at the heal to get to the edge.  It's also true if the old edge isn't at 90.

It wouldn't be as bad it the old jig honed them too shallow.  Then you are honing from the edge to the heal and you don't have to remove all the material on the face.  Unless you want it all purdy.
Note.  When turned, the brass knob on the roller will set a micro bevel.

Hi Luke,

I hope all is well with you as well!

Sorry for the delay in responding. I work with a custom home builder during the day and also run a small cabinetry shop, so have many things to balance!

As far as flattening the backs of new LN or Veritas tools (or other plane irons and chisels) there is a huge benefit to flattening the backs. Even the best tools need a little work to get the best performance out of them. Flattening the backs is the only way to reliably dial in a sharp edge and will reduce the time needed to regain a sharp edge. I see you are doing some learning through Mark S (wood-whisper), he should be able to explain. I learned from Garret Hack, Rob Cosman and others. Its all pretty consistent though.

Re the honing angle on the veritas jig, you may just want to use the set-up jig as a rough guide. When you hone your primary bevel, just ensure the jig is set-up so the tip of your chisel or plane iron is in contact with the stone, not lifted above it. The heel of the iron or chisel can just brush the stone, it should not grind against it. If you using the jig to establish a secondary micro-bevel, just ensure it is set up at the correct position before you start (ie not the micro bevel position - that comes last). Lee Valley has a good video on their site on how to use it. You'll find after gaining experience with sharpening hand planes and chisels, you may not need the guides. With time, you'll just sharpen by feel alone.

If you want more info, please let me know, I'd be happy to give you more details!

Your speakers are looking great, BTW! I hope you share more of the electronics on the build!

Cheers Mike

 

[Runhard]

Hey Luke,

For a little inspiration check this video out from Bowers & Wilkins:

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/800_Series_Diamond

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/

Bowers & Wilkins is my favorite speaker company. I sold my B&W speakers awhile ago and have not really got back into music, but if I ever buy speakers again they will be B&W.

 

[travisj]

I was talked into buying some B&W speakers a decade ago by a buddy for my first "nice" home theater setup.  600 series if I recall.  At the time I had the 2 bookshelf speakers, the center, a Velodyne sub, and a little Sony ES receiver.  I have since added their in walls for the rears, switched from Sony to Denon, and added an Oppo DVD player.  I love those little speakers and I swear they keep sounding better as the years go by.  I can say that I did listen to their big Nautilus looking speakers at the same time I bought the 600s and to my ear, couldn't tell enough of a difference to jump from $600 to $25k, but I do like them (I guess I wouldn't fit into the audiophile category).