Building a shop…. outfitting it with which Festool first? (long post)

[gstuartw]

I was introduced to woodworking 20 years ago when my father in-law and I built all the cabinetry for a total remodel of the house my wife and I were living in at the time. The house never had a garage while we lived there, only a carport so all the woodworking we did was at her dad's house. After we finished the remodel my stint in woodworking came to end. Fast forward to present day and we live in a new house with a garage. We have decided to remodel the kitchen and I'm going to restart my woodworking hobby and build the cabinetry. Once that is done I envision branching out some and making some interior doors as well as built ins. Since my wife is getting a new kitchen it wasn't difficult to convince her it was only fair I get a shop to build the cabinetry in rather than displace our cars and all the other stuff occupying our garage. As construction has been going on I've been acquiring equipment for the shop via Craigslist as well as some new purchases.

As far as large and stationary equipment I think I'm pretty well set:

Delta cabinet table saw. Jet 15" helical head planer. Jet 6" jointer. Jet belt disc sander (6x48 & 12). Delta 14" bandsaw with resaw riser. Jet 17" drill press. Supermax 19-38 drum sander. Clear Vue 1800 dust collector. Bench Dog router table with lift. (In addition to the Bench Dog I plan on building an extension to the  Delta TS and incorporating a lift mounted Porter Cable 3hp router.)

Bench and hand power tools are where I'm needing prioritizing. 

I've got an 18v Makita combo kit so for now my hand drill needs are met with the drill/driver/impact and an impact driver. The kit also has a circular saw and recipe saw. Corded tools include Milwaukee drill. Milwaukee hammer drill. Dewalt right angle drill. Dewalt palm sander. NEW Makita half sheet sander. Dewalt angle grinder. Hitachi 12" power miter. Milwaukee recip saw. Hitachi cut off saw. Hitachi framing nailer. Porter Cable finish nailer. Porter Cable brad nailer. Hitachi pin nailer.

All of my hand power tools have served me well over the years in both home projects and work. I do props and sets for TV commercials so I take them to the various locations and they get plenty of use and at times abuse, not to mention they get used my members of my crew that don't yet have an extensive selection of tools. The carpentry is I do in my work is not typically of a finish nature. Time is of the essence in my line of work and fine wood work takes too long. We build it fast and not meant to last.

I see the new shop being built in my back yard as a opportunity to separate work and pleasure and refine my tool inventory to more precise and never loaned tools. The work shop tools will stay in the shop and the others will be segregated. Fine woodworking will be done there. Enter Festool….

To date I have purchased the TS55, MFT3 and the CT 36. I've got about $2000 set aside to prioritize further Festool additions, but frankly it's like being a kid in a candy store, I don't know where to go next. I'd appreciate any input on how I prioritize my next purchases. I know I need the Domino and I assume the (500?) and the collection of tenons and cutters. That eats up half of my budget. What next?

Reminder. The bulk of my work in the shop will initially be kitchen cabinet making. Then built in book cases and after that perhaps doors and outdoor furniture.

Thanks to those who stuck it out and read this lengthy post.

 

[WPeters]

ETS 150 and/or RO 150 sanders.  Festool makes great sanders and the dust collection is nice for keeping the shop and lungs clean.  I know you mentioned you had some sanders, but the Festool sanders are so nice to use I would at least look at them.  1400 Router would also be a nice tool to have.  Out of the 6 or 7 routers we own, its the best.  As far as non Festool equipment, have you looked at the Kreg jig system? 
Just my 2cents.

 

[jacko9]

You sound like you have a very good start and the dust control system is perfect.  I have both the Domino 500 and 700 but for kitchen work the 500 will do and it will let you get experience with Domino joinery.  I think you will be very happy with the ETS 150/3 and buy the hard pad to go along with it.

The only thing I would change in your machinery at some point would be to get a wider jointer (at least 8").

Hand tools you might want would include a; block plane, Japanese (pull type) dovetail saw, some quality chisels.

Welcome to the FOG,

Jack

 

[Kev]

LR32 and OF1010 ... perfect for shelves and cabinets.

 

[stvrowe]

For casework, I would go with the Domino 500 and Domino assortment as priority number one.

Given the tools you listed as available, my second priority would be a router.  You haven't indicated whether you will do faceframe or frameless cabinets.  If you intend to do frameless, I would say a router such as the OF1400 and an LR-32 is a good choice. 

 

[BMH]

For kitchen cabinets and bookcase my first buy would be the 1400 with accessories and the LR 32 system. The domino is a great tool but not mandatory for cabinet making, but I suspect would be great addition to your day job tools. You are probably looking at 200-300 dollars more for all of it.

Sanders are great but you got yourself covered with the ones you have. You can always sale them bad get the RO 150.

Bruce

 

[semenza]

Hi gstuartw,

  Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]

  Definitely Domino.

Seth

 

[gstuartw]

ETS 150 and/or RO 150 sanders.  Festool makes great sanders and the dust collection is nice for keeping the shop and lungs clean.  I know you mentioned you had some sanders, but the Festool sanders are so nice to use I would at least look at them.  1400 Router would also be a nice tool to have.  Out of the 6 or 7 routers we own, its the best.  As far as non Festool equipment, have you looked at the Kreg jig system? 
Just my 2cents.

The Makita half sheet sander is pretty much a Festool knock off from what I have seen and I'm psyched it will hook  up to my CT 36! I do have some Kreg items and until I found out about the domino was planning on using Kreg for both the cabinet and face frame construction.

 

[gstuartw]

For casework, I would go with the Domino 500 and Domino assortment as priority number one.

Given the tools you listed as available, my second priority would be a router.  You haven't indicated whether you will do faceframe or frameless cabinets.  If you intend to do frameless, I would say a router such as the OF1400 and an LR-32 is a good choice. 

As of now I plan on building face frame cabinets.

 

[sancho57]

I suggest the LR 32 w/ 1010 and the domino w/ domino kit.
With everything else you own. Thats should just about do it.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

All good advice, so far.  From your description, I would spend the remainder on the Domino 500 with the accompanying Domino assortment systainer, the LR 32, and the MFK 700 EQ.  That would just be about $2,000 and you would have what you need to assemble cabinets and shelf pins.  One caveat, if you think that you will only be using the LR32 for just your own few builds, then I would suggest to just get an inexpensive shelf pin jig like the Rockler or the Kreg and using that $500 for something else.  Perhaps towards a new 8"+ jointer, some new Whiteside router bits, new chisels, an Oneida Cyclone or Laguna D16 ( to accompany the CT26), some Bessey clamps, and/or the long guide rail (for breaking down sheets.) Hope this helps. Please let us know what you decide to do...and welcome.

 

[gstuartw]

All good advice, so far.  From your description, I would spend the remainder on the Domino 500 with the accompanying Domino assortment systainer, the LR 32, and the MFK 700 EQ.  That would just be about $2,000 and you would have what you need to assemble cabinets and shelf pins.  One caveat, if you think that you will only be using the LR32 for just your own few builds, then I would suggest to just get an inexpensive shelf pin jig like the Rockler or the Kreg and using that $500 for something else.  Perhaps towards a new 8"+ jointer, some new Whiteside router bits, new chisels, an Oneida Cyclone or Laguna D16 ( to accompany the CT26), some Bessey clamps, and/or the long guide rail (for breaking down sheets.) Hope this helps. Please let us know what you decide to do...and welcome.

Thanks for the response. The Domino 500 has been consistently recommended in this thread and is now in my shopping cart at my favorite online Festool vendor! Your point about how often I'd use the LR32 is a good one as at this time I don't plan on making more than a few cabinets with adjustable shelves and I do already have a Rockler Jig. That purchase can fall to the bottom of the priority list.

 

[gstuartw]

First and foremost let me thank everyone for responding and offering advice as well as welcomes to the FOG. You are all a great group of Festool fans and I look forward to further interaction.

Here are my thoughts so far…

After the Domino the router is the next most suggested item and there doesn't seem to be consensus on this as I'm getting recommends ranging from the MFK 700 to the 1010 to the 1400. Routers seem to fall just after clamps as far as having multiples.

My quiver of routers at this point are:
Porter Cable 7518 3 1/4hp soon to be installed in my table saw extension.
Porter Cable 7539 3 1/4hp mounted in a Bench Dog router table
Porter Cable 6912  1 3/4  router with Plunge and D handle bases
Bosch Colt 1hp palm router

I know myself and I'll eventually succumb to the Festool Addiction and buy a router….

After the router comes the sander as far as suggested buys. There are a lot of fans of the RO 150 here it seems and in fact I purchased the 150 from Woodcraft recently only to return it the next week. Discussion with a veteran woodworker who makes his living building custom furniture yielded that he felt it was too much a "multiple hats" kind of sander. He finds that he uses his RS 2 more than anything else. He says the large surface makes for a stable, flat sanding operation and allows one hand use so as to free his other hand to keep the Festool cord and vac hose off his surfaces. Another benefit of the RS 2 he likes is that he can use his own sandpaper. When I was about to go for the RS 2 he turned me on to the Makita BO4900V which is a RS 2 clone. That sander coupled with Festool's paper punch saved me a couple hundred bucks, not to mention the dust collection nozzle on the Makita fits my CT 36.

So lets pretend I have the RS 2 already. What sander then brings the most versatility to my operation given the nature of what I'll be doing?

I'm surprised there were not mentions of a drill. I have to admit that while on Festoolproducts.com there banner promoting a Centrotec set caught my eye and made me wonder if I might do myself good by finding a replacement for my bulky/heavy Makita 18v. How often to you all use a drill? Does the versatility and range of options of the Festool line of drills really offset the cost? What about the Centrotec sets? I really don't have an extensive set of drills and drivers but rather a mish mosh of various bits etc in various states of condition. Might this be the time to start over in this area and step up to a complete set and a new drill?

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

First and foremost let me thank everyone for responding and offering advice as well as welcomes to the FOG. You are all a great group of Festool fans and I look forward to further interaction.

Here are my thoughts so far…

After the Domino the router is the next most suggested item and there doesn't seem to be consensus on this as I'm getting recommends ranging from the MFK 700 to the 1010 to the 1400. Routers seem to fall just after clamps as far as having multiples.

My quiver of routers at this point are:
Porter Cable 7518 3 1/4hp soon to be installed in my table saw extension.
Porter Cable 7539 3 1/4hp mounted in a Bench Dog router table
Porter Cable 6912  1 3/4  router with Plunge and D handle bases
Bosch Colt 1hp palm router

I know myself and I'll eventually succumb to the Festool Addiction and buy a router….

After the router comes the sander as far as suggested buys. There are a lot of fans of the RO 150 here it seems and in fact I purchased the 150 from Woodcraft recently only to return it the next week. Discussion with a veteran woodworker who makes his living building custom furniture yielded that he felt it was too much a "multiple hats" kind of sander. He finds that he uses his RS 2 more than anything else. He says the large surface makes for a stable, flat sanding operation and allows one hand use so as to free his other hand to keep the Festool cord and vac hose off his surfaces. Another benefit of the RS 2 he likes is that he can use his own sandpaper. When I was about to go for the RS 2 he turned me on to the Makita BO4900V which is a RS 2 clone. That sander coupled with Festool's paper punch saved me a couple hundred bucks, not to mention the dust collection nozzle on the Makita fits my CT 36.

So lets pretend I have the RS 2 already. What sander then brings the most versatility to my operation given the nature of what I'll be doing?

I'm surprised there were not mentions of a drill. I have to admit that while on Festoolproducts.com there banner promoting a Centrotec set caught my eye and made me wonder if I might do myself good by finding a replacement for my bulky/heavy Makita 18v. How often to you all use a drill? Does the versatility and range of options of the Festool line of drills really offset the cost? What about the Centrotec sets? I really don't have an extensive set of drills and drivers but rather a mish mosh of various bits etc in various states of condition. Might this be the time to start over in this area and step up to a complete set and a new drill?

The vet gave sage advice. Yes, to the RS 2. Another sander to take a look at is the Rotex 90.  I love my ETS/125. Also, I love the CXS. It's flexibility has been very handy. 

 

[panelchat]

since you are doing lots of cabinets i highly suggest focusing on panel breakdown and sizing.
i did some cabinet making jobs last year and focused on how to do them using only the festool kit.
the trick is to use the ten foot rail to cut a new long edge on a sheet, then continue doing long cuts/repeat cuts with parallel guides on the ten foot rail.
then cross cut these long pieces to size on the mft.
(i edgeband them first before cross cutting, saves time)
you can use the table saw of course, but since you are curious about the festool system, you might like this track saw method, using it as a "portable panel saw"
it works well and has some advantages.

you can also just do one long cut on each panel for a new reference edge then go straight to the table saw. this makes the table saw work easier/more accurate.

i did long cuts on a torsion box type platform holding the 4x8 panels.
i applied a right to left starrett tape to my mft fence, plus a hairline modfication to the flag stop, for very accurate/fast cutting, similar to using a uni or beisemeyer fence on a table saw.
then qwas dogs behind the mft fence as a way to ensure square.

some clamps for the mft make it a great casework assembly table.
most cabinet makers i know use the basic 5" random orbital sander, its easy to use one handed which makes the workflow go fast.

have fun!