Built in Refridgerated Wine Cellar

[Electric Trim]

Anyone built one of these!?

I'm working for a builder on this and he is building a refrigerated wine cellar in the basement of an existing house.

My contribution at this point is really just installing plywood on the walls, waiting on the stucco guy to do his things and then building wine racks to finish it out which will be my main contribution. The builder mentioned using rough sawn oak for the wine racks, can you guys think of any other woods that would be a good wood to use in the rough? Obviously my mind goes to redwood, cedar, and cypress... any other thoughts?

Obviously this thing needs to be sealed in for several reasons... you want to contain the moisture and not affect the surrounding areas/building materials. Additionally you want the refrigeration to be efficient because it's ideally cooling the specified area.

The room is a 10'x14' room in the basement with an 8' ceiling.

Initially we were thinking cdx plywood with tyvek installed on top of that with a very good taping job on any tyvek seams. Then lathe with stucco would be installed on top of that.

Now part of me is wondering if we should treat it more like a walk in shower and use a concrete board on the walls, tape and mud the seams (and transition to the slab at the bottom plate) and paint a waterproof barrier on that. Then install the stucco.

What do you guys think?

 

[Ken Nagrod]

My vote for the shower treatment and closed cell spray foam poly insulation if it's in the budget.

 

[Electric Trim]

Money isn't usually a problem for this contractor, so I'll recommend anything.  Thanks Ken.

 

[Alan m]

yes shower treatment and insulate it. insulation is always the cheapest way to heat and cool anything.
you could use osb as a moisture vapour stop, silicone the edges as you install

as for the timber . is it speced for rough sawn timber or is that an idea. that will be a PITA to use as it will have to cut to size very accuratly and roughed up to make it match the roughness on the outside edges of the supplied boards.
it would be faster and cheaper and look a lot better to plane everything. unless it is wainscotting or similar it would be very hard to get to match

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Well then!  There's my FOG consulting fee and typing vs. verbal fee and a whatchamacallit fee.  I'll send you the bill to pass along.  Thanks.

 

[peter halle]

A refrigerated wine cellar will of course require insulation.  But the interior will be by nature be less moist than the room outside.  Planning for moisture will be less of an issue.  A wood that would stand up for both moist and dry conditions would be Spanish cedar in addition to others mentioned.  Any wood used within should be kiln dried prior to help with movement issues.

Moisture always moves from most moist to less moist - imagine a sponge in water.  The moisture / vapor barrier might be better served on the exterior versus the interior.  I suggest that you consult on your customer's dime a licensed professional for the design.  That way you are offered protection if is goes bad.

Just my thoughts.

Peter

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the vapor barrier system for the wine cellar should be installed opposite of the way you do it for the exterior of a house.

 

[junk731]

Just over a year ago I designed, constructed and installed racking and storage for a 5000 bottle wine cellar. We chose redwood for this design but real mahogany was a close second. Cedar and many other woods are not recommended because the off gassing will contaminate the wine over time. White oak was also found in the research. The design must also take into account the need for constant temperature and humidity regulation which is typically around 65 F and 65%. These conditions are borderline for the creation of black mold. Too low a humidity and you dry out the corks, too high a humidity and you create mold and rot. The cooling/humidity can be accomplished by proper sizing of ready made units. All this info is readily available, you just have to spend the time to do the research. The pic below shows some racking and a custom cabinet I built. The cabinet was an after thought by the customer and is reclaimed white oak for an old barn.

John

[attachthumb=1]

 

[peter halle]

Ken,

Where a vapor barrier is installed in a house could depend on a climate - different for each.  That is why I suggested that a professional be consulted.  The interior will have a tendency to suck moisture into room - like a dehumidifier.  The vapor barrier here would be different than a room that housed expensive cigars where the interior was designed to be moist.  Local conditions would apply in my guesses.

Peter

 

[peter halle]

Just over a year ago I designed, constructed and installed racking and storage for a 5000 bottle wine cellar. We chose redwood for this design but real mahogany was a close second. Cedar and many other woods are not recommended because the off gassing will contaminate the wine over time. White oak was also found in the research. The design must also take into account the need for constant temperature and humidity regulation which is typically around 65 F and 65%. These conditions are borderline for the creation of black mold. Too low a humidity and you dry out the corks, too high a humidity and you create mold and rot. The cooling/humidity can be accomplished by proper sizing of ready made units. All this info is readily available, you just have to spend the time to do the research.

John[attachthumb=1]

Great info.  Was the wine cellar refrigerated?

Peter

 

[Chris Hughes]

We recently built a climate controlled wine cellar.  We used a Cool-R chiller unit that keeps the space about 57 degrees and dry.  As mentioned by Peter, moisture is not so much a concern where climate control units are used because of there tendency to pull moisture from the air.  

We opted for red oak as spected by the architect and finished with a conversion varnish.  In addition to the racks we also installed a Liebear into a built in cabinet and had a carving integrated into the doors of the fridge.  I would have preferred quarter sawn white oak for this use.

The one major mistake we made, or I should say the architect made, was in the application of the chiller unit.  The drawing considered the controls of the unit but did not take into account for where the heat the chiller produced was discharged.  When we fired up the cooler we realized that the control side, hanging out of the bulkhead we built for was pumping out hot air.  We now have to turn the unit 90  degrees and cut through a common wall to keep the unit in the bulkhead.  It sucks but we can fix it.

 

[junk731]

Peter

Yes it was refrigerated but not humidity controlled, that was a big bone of contention when I took on the job. Homeowner already had the room hooked up for air conditioning and thought that because it was in a sub-basement made of solid concrete, that the humidity would stay. I put in a temp/humidity logger to prove a point. The air conditioning was the last thing to be installed. Before the unit was turned on the temp varied from a low of 62F to a high of 73F and humidity stayed around 62% over a 30 day period. When the unit was turned on, it maintained a constant temp of 65F but took down the humidity to below 50%. I just built the racking and cabinets and offered info gathered from other similar jobs and research. It was one of those situations where the customer is always right.

John

 

[Chris Hughes]

I remember that photo from when you contributed to my thread.  Very nicely done. 

 

[junk731]

Thanx Chris

I couldn't remember which one I posted to your thread. I think we both know the frustrations of working for those that don't listen but can ultimately affect our payments.

John

 

[Electric Trim]

Thanks for the input guys!

Anyone else out there have any experience with building the walls on one of these things?