Bullet resistant security desk updated pics (new)

[Crazyraceguy]

There isn't much to see yet, except for the actual fiberglass-like material. Once it is complete, you will never know it is even in there. It gets covered by a layer of 3/4" ply and some veneered panels on top of that. It's fairly big, but has to deliver through a pretty small doorway, so the field joints are not in ideal locations. That's just the way it has to be sometimes.
Level 3 protection is supposed to withstand a .44 Mag
This is just day one's progress, there will be more next week.

I had to buy the cement-board saw blade for this stuff. It is basically fiberglass and doesn't take to well to being sawn. It can be drilled pretty easily, with normal HSS bits. I made the first few saw cuts with the TCG blade that I have for Corian. It actually doesn't do that bad, especially after I figured out that slowing the blade to the minimum, helped. When the special blade showed up, I switched over to it.
The amount of force required to push the saw was reduced, but the cut wasn't significantly better, until I thought to speed the saw back up. With only 4 teeth, they need some speed to have more engagement.
That reduced to pushing force even more. It still kind of tears at the top layer of fibers, but the cut is far easier, and they sand right off.

 

[rst]

As commercial glazier in PA, we do a lot of bullet proof installs.  Ungodly expensive and heavy.  The ones for state police installs are 2+” tick and often require 6 man installs. We received one a couple weeks ago in a crate probably 6x4’- $12000.

 

[Packard]

Level III barriers are supposed to stop all known handgun rounds, .223 rifle (AR-16 and the NATO equivalent, and .308 Winchester (hunting and sniper rounds).

That would not be your everyday bank teller desk. It might be a police desk in a high crime neighborhood, or the Treasury’s department that stores currency.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It's a security desk for a government building that is home to the city attorney's offices and the tax department.

 

[HighlandMarine]

That looks like G10 FR4 composite, but instead of the fine fibers normally used, it looks like a heavy weight bi-axial glass as the top layer, and could have a Kevlar layer in the sandwich or some other secret sauce. I cut various thicknesses of FR4 sheet stock with the TSC55 and the CSC SYS 50 using the aluminum/composite blade using lower speeds/feeds, just got a al/comp blade for the Kapex for bar and round FR4. Mostly use it for mounting and backing plates for large inverter/chargers on yachts.

 

[MikeGE]

I've installed and supervised the installation of ballistic glass and doors, but have never built any.  Everything I installed came with the appropriate documentation certifying the components met the requirements.  How will you be testing the finished product to ensure it provides the Level III protection?

 

[Packard]

Kevlar behaves in unexpected ways sometimes. 

A level II Kevlar will stop a slow moving 45 caliber bullet, and a soft-nose .357”.  It has problems with small caliber-high velocity ammo, and fully jacketed .357, which will not flatten out and can pierce the Kevlar.

Surprisingly, an ice pick will readily thread its way past the woven fibers and icepick encounters are scary for police. 

Back in the late 1970s or so, I made an appointment to see Point Blank Armor in Amityville, New York (Long Island), an early producer of bullet proof vests. 

A friend’s daughter, a competitive figure skater, was practicing her triple jumps and landed one skate on the other. 

Competitive ice skaters’ blades are kept incredibly sharp.  And her landing was able to slice through the leather, her skin and most of the metatarsal bones.  She had major surgery to put everything back together again (apologies to Humpty Dumpty).

I wanted Point Blank to produce some lace on spats that would protect against this from happening. 

The owner said that they were too busy filling their police vest orders to undertake a new product.  My suspicions were that the ice skating spats would be too “girly” for them.  (I think they were very image conscious.)

At any rate, I never followed through.  I still think the idea has merit, but is perhaps too much of a niche business for most manufacturers.

 

[MikeGE]

[member=74278]Packard[/member] , you are correct about the unique properties of Kevlar.  I used to be a Deputy Sheriff and my ballistic vest, with front trauma plate, was part of my daily wear. 

I also wore cut resistant leather gloves that were lined with Spectra.  In my experience, the gloves were very effective against edged weapons, and I went through several pairs during my time with the Sheriff's Office.  I have no doubt that leggings or spats that incorporated Spectra might have been effective in the unfortunate ice skating accident.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That looks like G10 FR4 composite, but instead of the fine fibers normally used, it looks like a heavy weight bi-axial glass as the top layer, and could have a Kevlar layer in the sandwich or some other secret sauce. I cut various thicknesses of FR4 sheet stock with the TSC55 and the CSC SYS 50 using the aluminum/composite blade using lower speeds/feeds, just got a al/comp blade for the Kapex for bar and round FR4. Mostly use it for mounting and backing plates for large inverter/chargers on yachts.

It is definitely made from a multitude of layers, which appear different, viewed from the edge. The core looks much more dense, almost like those layers were cured in a press? Vacuum, maybe? Then the density seems to lessen toward the surface.
Yes, like I said before, the TCG with zero rake blade cut it ok, speed down to 3. It took only slightly more effort to cut than Corian. My concern was how long it would take that though. The Diamond does cut easier, but the main reason was life expectancy. I will have a second one of these, in a couple of months, so I expect this blade to complete that one too. It should, the carbide blade had done most of this one, before the new blade came in.

Mike,
To my knowledge, there is no warranty as to the product being fit-for-purpose. It was spec'd by someone else. All I have to do is install it in accordance with the manufacturer's directions.
Several of the guys have asked for off-cuts......for testing  [wink]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Some progress has been made on this one. It has been slow, with other things getting in the way.
It has been helpful that the whole thing gets covered with pre-veneered panels. That changes the dynamic of the application. Plus, the fact that it all has to be stained/finished before installation, well most of it anyway. One inner side had to be done raw, because of the odd placement of the field joints. This thing has to go through an oddly small doorway.
All of the exterior parts are now in the hands of the finishing guy

 

[Packard]

What are the windows going to be made from?  How well anchored will those be?

Back in the early 1970s, I worked in New England, but the home office was in Philadelphia.  Every 4 to 6 months I would visit the home office.

I would stop for lunch on the way home at a Roy Rogers restaurant.  They had counter to ceiling bullet proof glass with a bankers’ drawer to accept cash and to hand over the food. 

The workers were being paid minimum wage and they had to come out from behind the glass to mop the floors. 

They had, what looked like 1” thick Plexiglass (Perspex, for those in Europe).  They scratch up pretty fast though.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have no idea, but this is a re-fresh of an existing building. As far as I know, there is no exterior work at all, so it must be adequate for purpose?

 

[rst]

Bullet resistant glass now comes as polycarbonate in varying thickness' which determines the classification and is sandwiched between laminated glass which also may come in varying thicknesses.  Scratch resistance is lower for polycarbonate due to it's crosslinked nature which allows it to bend without breaking. Acrylic is more scratch resistant but will crack. Abrasion resistant polycarbonate is available but and is comparable to act is much more expensive than standard poly.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

One of the guys from work took a small piece home, for some testing. However, I forgot to take a pic before I left on Friday, so Monday afternoon will have to do.
I can say though that it did very well, in the way it was intended.....handguns.
The .44Mag made a pocket, but did not go through. IIRC, it wasn't really even noticeable on the back.
The rifle rounds were quite different.
Just out of curiosity, he hit it with a few .17HMR. They penetrated and got stuck inside.
.30-06 went right through, just as you would expect.

The surprising one was 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. Part of the effect may have been the location on the panel, but it was the one that did the most "damage" to the layers. They hit closer to the edge than some others and somewhat exploded the layers. That 1/2" panel is well over 1" at that point.
While this is a pistol, it's certainly not common, and of course none of this is accounting for at least 2 layers of 3/4" ply on top of the barrier panel and a 3rd layer inside, before it could ever reach a person.

 

[Packard]

The ratings tests for bullet proof glass are for a single round hitting the surface.

Several rounds hitting the surface in close proximity can do more damage.

Also, armor-piercing rounds, which do not expand at all, can do more damage than jacketed hollow points or even soft lead bullets. The armor piercing rounds, while able to pierce the armor, make small holes in people and are not nearly as deadly as the hollow points or the soft lead bullets which will expand when they hit flesh.

I would expect that a “full military jacketed” round, in accumulation over a small area might do quite a bit of damage to bullet-proof glass.  The full cladding of copper over the lead prevents the rounds from expanding, and is required by the Geneva Convention.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have a few final pics, as it is being broken down, to ship Monday. This went from "due next week sometime" (rather vague) to Monday, about mid-week last week.
My helper has been doing another hurry-up job, in the solid surface department, for over a week. So, I had to recruit the stain/finish guy to help my Thursday and half the day Friday.
There is a metal band that wraps around the left end, but it won't go on until final assembly. I crosses over a field joint and can't be in place for shipping.

I don't know why that last pic is so bad? I must have moved.

This one should look pretty cool, when fully assembled. I'll have to get some pics then too.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Really nice work CRG!

Good to see cathedrals up too! ;-)

 

[Crispy]

Some progress has been made on this one. It has been slow, with other things getting in the way.
It has been helpful that the whole thing gets covered with pre-veneered panels. That changes the dynamic of the application. Plus, the fact that it all has to be stained/finished before installation, well most of it anyway. One inner side had to be done raw, because of the odd placement of the field joints. This thing has to go through an oddly small doorway.
All of the exterior parts are now in the hands of the finishing guy

The end result is pretty cool, you would never know what is behind the wood - i get thats the idea, but i must say i've never thought about it either when on the pleb side of a desk/counter.

What method/ how do you stain your ply to get it looking so uniform?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

What method/ how do you stain your ply to get it looking so uniform?

The main thing is having the pieces that end up together aligned when applying the stain. All of the individual panels are marked on the back, with the area they fit, and the vertical order. They were also 2" over length, so they could be mitered at the corners, and fresh square cut at the field seams. Sanding/handling slightly rounds the ends, which emphasizes the seams.
Other than that, it's just years of practice. Large things are mostly what we do, though personally, I would rather see a clear finish on most things.