Bury me with my CMS

[WarrenWeldon]

Man what a week ! Last night I brought home my new CMS  set it up and found some extra parts! Well I have all the rings for the OF 2200 in my USA model CMS!!! I noticed all I had to do was remove the small steel lift plate adapter for the 1010/1400 and rotate the index pin about 120 dgr. to starboard were there is a single hole for the OF 2200 ! it works like a champ! I watched one of the German language videos and every part was there so I tried it and it is MAGNIFICENT !!!! Now I have my OF 2200 permanently in the CMS and the 1400 is free to roam!!!.
PS, I have been asked if I use Festools in my luthery. After almost 40 years (261 and counting) of Hand builtAcoustic guitars I can't say I have incorporated anything other than buffing out nitro. But that is not to say that I will not replace some of my hard headed techniques for a Festool process. I got into Festools for my hobby which is building Federal Furniture.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Do you use the switch of the CMS with the OF2200? Rumour has it the USA switch is not rated for the large current the OF2200 draws.

 

[WarrenWeldon]

Yea that is just UL BS. I removed the cover and the wire gauge can handle 2/3 the Amps the OF 200 can draw. I also used a thermal unit on it nd it doesn't even register after 5 minutes of use.

 

[WarrenWeldon]

Correction OF 2200 draws less than 1/3 the Amps the wire can handle , sorry its late in Alaska,,

 

[WarrenWeldon]

I think it has more to do with the expense of the UL certification divided by the margin that is holding this up. Long story short it is not a mechanical hurdle it is a bureaucratic one.

 

[WarrenWeldon]

And the dust collection is OUT OF THIS WORLD !!!

 

[peter halle]

Statement from Festool.

Warning: The Festool CMS System is approved for use with only the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers in the US and Canadian markets.  It is not approved for use with the OF 2200, nor with any of the CMS modules currently available outside the US and Canadian markets (TS, Jigsaw and sanding modules).  Festool USA does not  endorse the use of these components and will not support them with spare  parts or repairs. The use of anything other than the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers and their related accessories with the CMS will void the warranty agreement on the entire system for customers within the US and Canada. Festool does not endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual.

 

[sancho57]

So when use your 2200  go buy a 6.2 (i think) mm collet so you can use 1/4 router bits with it. Saves ya the trouble of buying duplicate bits

 

[tjbnwi]

A word of advise seeing as you are [not] using the 2200 in the CMS table. There is a clear dust shield to keep the shavings out of the ratchet area. When you install it make sure you rotate it clockwise to lock it in place. If you don't you'll be here asking how to remove the bit because the ratchet does not work.

If you want to use 1/4" bits, the 1/4" collet from the 1400 fits the 2200.

Tom

 

[Sparktrician]

Do you use the switch of the CMS with the OF2200? Rumour has it the USA switch is not rated for the large current the OF2200 draws.

It's not a rumor!  The switch is rated at 13.5 amps, and the OF 2200 can draw up to 20 amps under load. 

[sad]

 

[AlexThePalex]

Yeah, I know Sparky.  [wink] I was just trying to break the news gently to Warren. But apparently he has had no problem with it yet.

Odd, by the way, that Festool can't find or engineer a switch that does have the proper rating.

I wonder what would happen if you exceed the switch' rated capacity. Would you just break a fuse, get a meltdown, or do we get to see a big explosion? 

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Do you use the switch of the CMS with the OF2200? Rumour has it the USA switch is not rated for the large current the OF2200 draws.

It's not a rumor!  The switch is rated at 13.5 amps, and the OF 2200 can draw up to 20 amps under load. 

[sad]

I am deliberately going to stop short of drawing any conclusions, and simply state my observations. As noted above, Festool does not authorize the use of the OF2200 in the CMS table, and I am not a Festool employee and do not represent Festool.

Two weeks ago I decided to take a closer look at the switch inside the enclosure. It's a mini magnetic contactor made by Tripus Systems in Germany. That really piqued my curiosity, because I have never seen a magnetic contactor this small before. Being a magnetic contactor means that the switch turns itself off if you unplug the CMS table from power. Most router table switches are just mechanical push buttons that won't turn off if they lose power.

It's actually a 4-pole contactor, meaning there are 4 separate switches (contacts) inside the single switch. Each of these 4 contacts are rated at 16 amps resistive load, or 12.5 amps inductive. Instead of controlling 4 separate circuits, though, they are all connected in parallel so that power is shared by all 4 contacts. In theory, 1/4 of the total amperage flows through each contact.

The bigger contactors you find in large power tools such as tablesaws, shapers, jointers, etc.; are mechanical-make, magnetic-break. This means that when you push the On-button you physically push the contacts closed, but when you push the off-button, you are only interrupting the electrical circuit to the solenoid, which opens the contacts via a small spring inside the contactor. This switch however, is mechanical-make, mechanical-break, magnetic-hold. This means that when you push the off-button you physically pull the contacts apart instead of relying on a small spring to pull them apart. The mechanical-break function is an improvement over the big contactors because I have heard of cases where tablesaws have failed to turn off when the contacts get fused together and the spring isn't strong enough to open the circuit.

 

[tjbnwi]

I do use the 2200 in the CMS. Pretty sure everyone has figured that out by now.

I did have a problem with the CMS switch. The bolt that holds the switch to the frame came a little loose and I had to tighten it.

Tom

 

[Sparktrician]

Like Tom, I chose to use the OF 2200 in the CMS, but also chose to eliminate the stock switch due to under-rating and its standard position in a place that's very awkward to access quickly.  I chose to substitute a 20-amp-rated push-button tool switch with a built-in circuit breaker located in a box mounted above the work surface where I can reach it VERY quickly, should the need arise.  I also use it on a 20-amp circuit with nothing else running on it.  I control the CT manually and run it from another circuit, just to be safe. 

 

[WarrenWeldon]

No the OF 2200 is a max draw of 15 amps, read the label people. In order to achieve 15 amp draw you would have to be a gorilla pushing as hard as you can through Ebony or ironwood or steel or something because on our load test this morning  it would draw no more than 12.8 and that was as hard as we could push. I wasn't born yesterday and my degree is in electrical engineering so I am no cheechacko when it come to this stuff. If you don't like the switch don't use it. It is just as easy to use an after market but you are totally wasting your money. There is no way you are going to smoke test this switch. Again get out your magnifying glasses and take a look and you will see that the OF 2200 is rated at MAX. 15 amps. We ran the CT46 and the OF2200 on a 20 amp with no heating of the mains.

 

[Sparktrician]

The label on the tool identifies it as having a 15 amp draw, no question.  The 2014 Festool catalog (p. 70) identifies the tool as being rated at 2200 watts.  When the standard power formula (P=EI) where Power (in watts) equals Energy (in volts) times Intensity (in amps) is applied, the lower the voltage is, the higher the current will be.  So according to the standard power formula, at 110 volts, the calculated max power draw will be 20 amps.  At 125 volts, the calculated max power draw will be 17.6 amps.  In both cases, the draw exceeds the standard CMS switch's 13.5 amp rating. 

BTW, I took a look at my own OF 2200 with no bit installed and no load applied.  At the lowest speed, it drew 6.0 amps; at the highest speed, it drew 8.9 amps.  Again, this is with no bit installed and no load applied. 

Take your choice as to which you believe.  I choose to err on the conservative side.  YMMV. 

 

[greg mann]

It is interesting to read the perspectives of three gentlemen with far more elctrical knowledge than I'll ever have and it occurs to me that each has something to offer. As an outside observer, it seems to me Warren is saying, based on his tests, no matter what the OF2200 is capable of drawing he can only make it work hard enough to draw 12.8 amps. I asked this question a while back in a similar thread hoping someone would chime in. IIRC, it went something like this: Other than adding a slight difference in no load draw, would an OF2200 draw any more amperage to take the same cut one could take with an OF1010? I understand the 2200 CAN take bigger cuts but if you are NOT taking bigger cuts is there any appreciable difference in amp draw?

Put another way, say I am taking a panel raising bit and pushing the 1400 to its limit. I am happy with the speed and feed but concerned about the router because I know I am maxing it out. Let's say I am drawing 14.8 amps for argument's sake. I switch to a 2200 and take the same cut at the same speed and feed. Will I draw anything significantly different doing the same work but with a bigger motor?

 

[teocaf]

re sparktrician's last entry: i'm curious, why did you not put a bit in and load up the router?  what's the point of doing it with no bit in and no load?  i'm also curious to see the specific switch setup you went with--is there a different thread that addresses that?

this is a very interesting thread because i'm also thinking of putting a 2200 in that table.  not to mention learning a great new word:  cheechako--i can't wait to use it in conversation!

 

[Sparktrician]

re sparktrician's last entry: i'm curious, why did you not put a bit in and load up the router?  what's the point of doing it with no bit in and no load?  i'm also curious to see the specific switch setup you went with--is there a different thread that addresses that?

The reason I chose to run no-load with no bit was to identify the measured minimum current drawn under those circumstances (in contrast to the theoretical calculated maximums I identified earlier).  To test using a number of bits at various speeds would be a wheel-spinning exercise due to the variety of available bits and the need to test them under very specific circumstances that would be appropriate to the bit being tested and very difficult to replicate in another person's setup due to the varieties of material being routed. 

There is no other thread dealing with my specific switch setup.  The reason for this is that Festool, who own this forum, have made a very legitimate and defensible choice to not allow threads dealing with unauthorized and unapproved modifications to Festool products which could conceivably put Festool in some bozo's soup pot, should said bozo get hurt by replicating the unauthorized and unapproved setup.  Further, Festool has made it abundantly clear that unauthorized and unapproved modifications can void one's warranty.  I, for one, have no issue with either position. 

 

[Sparktrician]

Put another way, say I am taking a panel raising bit and pushing the 1400 to its limit. I am happy with the speed and feed but concerned about the router because I know I am maxing it out. Let's say I am drawing 14.8 amps for argument's sake. I switch to a 2200 and take the same cut at the same speed and feed. Will I draw anything significantly different doing the same work but with a bigger motor?

With the OF 1400, the max calculated current draw is 12.73 amps at 110 volts.  At 125 volts, the max calculated current draw is 11.2 amps.  If you use the OF 1400 and then shift to the OF 2200 doing raised panels, you will not draw anywhere near the same current due to the different design of the routers' motors.  Examining your premise and the clear difference in routers named make this a pear-to-pomegranate comparison to which there is no truly legitimate answer.