c12 drill vs. impact

[Nigel]

       
        I've used Spax and thought they were good but those Wurth are something else.Anypne else used them?Problem is availability......

 

[Dan Clark]

I use GRK and Spax.  Spax are available at the local Home Depot.  Excellent screws and drive in easier and faster than GRK.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Deansocial]

The only screws I will use now are

* Reisser R2 cutter
Not very commen but very good screws.  Good for on ends of timber without splitting the timber

* Ultimate (which comes with a long blue bit free brilliant bit hardly every breaks with impact drill)
Most commen screws in UK

* Spax
Also most commen screws in the UK

* Classic Plus (Comes with Free hex torx bit)
Also not very commen scews but with the Hex end its very good for high torque

Non of these screws above need a pilot hole  especially the Reisser R2 cutter they have  two slots in the screws which allows you to screw right on an edge of timber or on the end of a timber with out it splitting

They are all better quality so PZ2 bits fit in them very tight so very easy to screw in even with high torque you dont often slip especially the Ultimates and Classic Plus.  

I use the Ultimates most because my local sells them and you get a free bit in every box I only need one for about 10 boxes to be honest before they break.

I hate using normal screws now they are rubbish especially the silver screws they never seem to fit the bit right and the tips arnt as sharp.

I have all the screws above mentioned of all sizes from 25mm to 100mm so if any one wants to see a demo of these screws VS ordinary screws ill be happy to do a demo so you can see the difference between them.

i wouldnt say the ultimate screws are most common really, around here only travis' sell them. i prefer spax myself as the ultimate hase a funny countersink that doesnt sit right in ironmongery.

 

[jmbfestool]

The only screws I will use now are

* Reisser R2 cutter
Not very commen but very good screws.  Good for on ends of timber without splitting the timber

* Ultimate (which comes with a long blue bit free brilliant bit hardly every breaks with impact drill)
Most commen screws in UK

* Spax
Also most commen screws in the UK

* Classic Plus (Comes with Free hex torx bit)
Also not very commen scews but with the Hex end its very good for high torque

Non of these screws above need a pilot hole  especially the Reisser R2 cutter they have  two slots in the screws which allows you to screw right on an edge of timber or on the end of a timber with out it splitting

They are all better quality so PZ2 bits fit in them very tight so very easy to screw in even with high torque you dont often slip especially the Ultimates and Classic Plus.  

I use the Ultimates most because my local sells them and you get a free bit in every box I only need one for about 10 boxes to be honest before they break.

I hate using normal screws now they are rubbish especially the silver screws they never seem to fit the bit right and the tips arnt as sharp.

I have all the screws above mentioned of all sizes from 25mm to 100mm so if any one wants to see a demo of these screws VS ordinary screws ill be happy to do a demo so you can see the difference between them.

i wouldnt say the ultimate screws are most common really, around here only travis' sell them. i prefer spax myself as the ultimate hase a funny countersink that doesnt sit right in ironmongery.

Yes very true ultimates dont sit right for hinges and other ironmongery because they have very deep counter sink heads which is good for making sure your bit doesnt slip out and they counter sink really nicely.

So I dont use Ultimates for Ironmongery BUT
I wouldnt use Spax for ironmongery either because they have spax written on them and someother stuff and they dont look very nice on the head and they arnt really proper brass colour and you can tell easily with them on hinges they look to dull.

I use the screws supplied but they are often very soft and the heads damage easy so ill get screws which look the same I have been on jobs where people do use Ultimates for the hinges it looks RUBBISH I hate screws not being flush on hinges Id rather have them slightly set in then proud.

What I ment was for screwing wood together things like that because your not going to use a 60 80 90 or 100mm screw for ironmongery normally which is where you use the torque with them sizes. Every where I work Ultimate are often used and I see alot of people with the blue bits. My firm always supplied Ultimate where ever we worked they got Ultimate from a local store near by sometimes.

Spax are more common yes  but thats maybe because places like Focus sell them im not sure if B&Q sell them do they?!?

 

[Warrior]

I have the C12 and just love it and all the accessory chucks too. but am I the only one that has learned how to properly use an impact driver?

"Its too fast" uhm hello? it has a variable speed trigger.

"Its too powerful for small fasteners" With that variable speed trigger comes variable torque. pull lightly on the trigger and you get a slow spinning low torque drive. and visa versa.

I do use my impact to build furniture and my C12 too. I find I have much more control on the depth of drive with an impact than I do with the best of torque settings on a drill. No way can a torque setting on a drill give you consistent depth of drive into hardwoods. there is just too much variablilty in the density from one part of the board to the next. I can also drive the small screws just as well with an impact as my C12. All it takes is a little practice with your trigger finger.

 

[Winchester]

I love the impact for driving screws and lags and tightening bolts.

For all of you complaining about impact being too fast, my panasonic brushless motor impact has 3 speed settings.

for drilling I use a normal cordless drill (also panasonic).

I like having two drills anyway, one for drilling and one for driving, as I hate changing bits.

I also often use spade bits in my impact and that works pretty good too.

 

[Deansocial]

The only screws I will use now are

* Reisser R2 cutter
Not very commen but very good screws.  Good for on ends of timber without splitting the timber

* Ultimate (which comes with a long blue bit free brilliant bit hardly every breaks with impact drill)
Most commen screws in UK

* Spax
Also most commen screws in the UK

* Classic Plus (Comes with Free hex torx bit)
Also not very commen scews but with the Hex end its very good for high torque

Non of these screws above need a pilot hole  especially the Reisser R2 cutter they have  two slots in the screws which allows you to screw right on an edge of timber or on the end of a timber with out it splitting

They are all better quality so PZ2 bits fit in them very tight so very easy to screw in even with high torque you dont often slip especially the Ultimates and Classic Plus.  

I use the Ultimates most because my local sells them and you get a free bit in every box I only need one for about 10 boxes to be honest before they break.

I hate using normal screws now they are rubbish especially the silver screws they never seem to fit the bit right and the tips arnt as sharp.

I have all the screws above mentioned of all sizes from 25mm to 100mm so if any one wants to see a demo of these screws VS ordinary screws ill be happy to do a demo so you can see the difference between them.

i wouldnt say the ultimate screws are most common really, around here only travis' sell them. i prefer spax myself as the ultimate hase a funny countersink that doesnt sit right in ironmongery.

Yes very true ultimates dont sit right for hinges and other ironmongery because they have very deep counter sink heads which is good for making sure your bit doesnt slip out and they counter sink really nicely.

So I dont use Ultimates for Ironmongery BUT
I wouldnt use Spax for ironmongery either because they have spax written on them and someother stuff and they dont look very nice on the head and they arnt really proper brass colour and you can tell easily with them on hinges they look to dull.

I use the screws supplied but they are often very soft and the heads damage easy so ill get screws which look the same I have been on jobs where people do use Ultimates for the hinges it looks RUBBISH I hate screws not being flush on hinges Id rather have them slightly set in then proud.

What I ment was for screwing wood together things like that because your not going to use a 60 80 90 or 100mm screw for ironmongery normally which is where you use the torque with them sizes. Every where I work Ultimate are often used and I see alot of people with the blue bits. My firm always supplied Ultimate where ever we worked they got Ultimate from a local store near by sometimes.

Spax are more common yes  but thats maybe because places like Focus sell them im not sure if B&Q sell them do they?!?

thats great till you are on maintainance and need to screw a door back on and all you have are ultimate screws, personally i hate em. that probly because we get bought the multipacks which only seem to have the larger sizes in them. they are also pozisquare drive not pozi drive. yes they come with bits but they are the double ended type that wont go in the magnetic holder.

 

[jmbfestool]

I love the impact for driving screws and lags and tightening bolts.

For all of you complaining about impact being too fast, my panasonic brushless motor impact has 3 speed settings.

for drilling I use a normal cordless drill (also panasonic).

I like having two drills anyway, one for drilling and one for driving, as I hate changing bits.

I also often use spade bits in my impact and that works pretty good too.

The new makita has 3 settings also.  My mate I work with sometimes has the Panasonic Impact its feels very light. I like it. but the Drill/driver is heavy though.

 

[jmbfestool]

The only screws I will use now are

* Reisser R2 cutter
Not very commen but very good screws.  Good for on ends of timber without splitting the timber

* Ultimate (which comes with a long blue bit free brilliant bit hardly every breaks with impact drill)
Most commen screws in UK

* Spax
Also most commen screws in the UK

* Classic Plus (Comes with Free hex torx bit)
Also not very commen scews but with the Hex end its very good for high torque

Non of these screws above need a pilot hole  especially the Reisser R2 cutter they have  two slots in the screws which allows you to screw right on an edge of timber or on the end of a timber with out it splitting

They are all better quality so PZ2 bits fit in them very tight so very easy to screw in even with high torque you dont often slip especially the Ultimates and Classic Plus.  

I use the Ultimates most because my local sells them and you get a free bit in every box I only need one for about 10 boxes to be honest before they break.

I hate using normal screws now they are rubbish especially the silver screws they never seem to fit the bit right and the tips arnt as sharp.

I have all the screws above mentioned of all sizes from 25mm to 100mm so if any one wants to see a demo of these screws VS ordinary screws ill be happy to do a demo so you can see the difference between them.

i wouldnt say the ultimate screws are most common really, around here only travis' sell them. i prefer spax myself as the ultimate hase a funny countersink that doesnt sit right in ironmongery.

Yes very true ultimates dont sit right for hinges and other ironmongery because they have very deep counter sink heads which is good for making sure your bit doesnt slip out and they counter sink really nicely.

So I dont use Ultimates for Ironmongery BUT
I wouldnt use Spax for ironmongery either because they have spax written on them and someother stuff and they dont look very nice on the head and they arnt really proper brass colour and you can tell easily with them on hinges they look to dull.

I use the screws supplied but they are often very soft and the heads damage easy so ill get screws which look the same I have been on jobs where people do use Ultimates for the hinges it looks RUBBISH I hate screws not being flush on hinges Id rather have them slightly set in then proud.

What I ment was for screwing wood together things like that because your not going to use a 60 80 90 or 100mm screw for ironmongery normally which is where you use the torque with them sizes. Every where I work Ultimate are often used and I see alot of people with the blue bits. My firm always supplied Ultimate where ever we worked they got Ultimate from a local store near by sometimes.

Spax are more common yes  but thats maybe because places like Focus sell them im not sure if B&Q sell them do they?!?

thats great till you are on maintainance and need to screw a door back on and all you have are ultimate screws, personally i hate em. that probly because we get bought the multipacks which only seem to have the larger sizes in them. they are also pozisquare drive not pozi drive. yes they come with bits but they are the double ended type that wont go in the magnetic holder.

I know they are different pozi but normal Pozi do scew them in also.  What do you mean by double ended?!?!? you mean they are longer?! The ones I use only have one end on them.

 

[Deansocial]

i have snapped no end of pz2 bits with them, i know they drive them but i think it strains the bit more

we get 1 of these and about 5 @ 50mm like that in the multi packs

 

[jmbfestool]

Must be different Ultimates then!  Do your boxes look like these

These are the bits I  get with the boxes all ways have done never seen them double ended one with ultimates.

[attachimg=#]

 

[Deansocial]

yes they are the same screws but as i said before i get the multipacks that come in a case and they have the double ended bits,  i had some of those but all snaped now

 

[Sparktrician]

I have run in hundreds of 5/16"x 10" GRK RSS screws with my C-12.  Most into ancient oak and chestnut framing around here.

I have yet to strip a head or break a tip.

I love those GRK's and their tips.

I concur on the GRK screws.  The damn things are good and spendy, but they really do what they're supposed to do without breaking driver tips.  The GRK cabinet screws are wonderful for hanging heavy cabinets and the large heads spread the anchoring tension without pulling through the material.  They're also great for hanging closet conversions that ultimately carry some pretty significant weight when loaded, and I've never had one tear out. 

Another thing that I really appreciate about the C12 is that when the clutch reaches its limit, the motor shuts off rather than having the driver ratcheting against the screw wasting battery energy. 

 

[Sean7a]

Wonderful discussion guys.  I deal with this just about everyday or so on the sales floor.  Why an impact, which one is the best, how does it work, why not a drill, etc?

Some of the biggest things, which mostly have all been mentioned are the speed, but most importantly (in my mind), is the almost 100% complete absence of any rotational torque forces.  This means supreme control, no stripped heads and a calm work environment where you have full control over the workpiece.  You're never fighting the drill. 

We sell quite a few impact wrenches (different "chuck") to linesmen who throw on an adapter chuck and then BIG auger bits to drill through telephone poles 30 ft up in the air.  The reason they choose an impact wrench over a drill is due to the absence of any torque.  The ratcheting functionality in an impact driver / wrench make these tools perfect in delicate situations.  When you're up in the air, in a harness, you don't want to be fighting a big Makita 18 volt or Dewalt 24 volt 1/2" drill driver that's trying to torque you around this way and that.

 

[grobin]

IMHO impacts are for the real tough jobs not driving most screws.  The lack of torque is a big deal for me as I have bad Rheumatoid arthritis.  That being said I usually use a screw gun for most screws.  But lag screws in decking and drilling hard materials like steel or aluminum are where you need the impact.

 

[Sparktrician]

I agree with Grobin that the impact drivers are WONDERFUL on the heavier-duty projects like decks and places where the additional torque comes in very handy for driving lag screws, tightening carriage bolts and the like.  I prefer to use the big Milwaukee corded impact driver for those things.  When it comes to cabinets and closets, the battery-powered impacts really shine in my world.  I've been using a Bosch 14.4 volt one for a couple of years, but have to be careful to NOT overdrive and lose the strength of the wood by going through it.  That's where the C12 seems to fill the void.  When it hits the limit, it just stops and doesn't keep on hammering.  Combine the C12 and some GRK cabinet screws with the wide heads, and the cabinets stay securely on the wall, and the closets don't fall down.  Mo' bettah good!!!  [smile] 

 

[TJ Cornish]

Hello all - 1st post here.  I am a long-time home improvement addict that has started moving towards cabinetry.  My tools reflect this history - most of my stuff is large and heavy duty.  As the next few projects on the plate require some more precision, both in terms of my craft and the tools, I've had to spend a few bucks on things to do a better job - cabinet saw, Kreg jig, rail/style router bit set, etc.

I've been a long-time impact driver user - I got the old blue Makita 14.4 volt stuff back in 2005 and just this past January upgraded to the new Dewalt 18v lithium drill and impact driver.  Other than the noise, the impact driver has been one of the most revolutionary tools I've used since my first pneumatic nailer.  Until I started assembling the pocket hole joints in the Melamine that I'm working in, that is.  I am pretty adept at using the impact driver even for tasks like hanging drywall, but I just couldn't swing it for the pocket holes, and had to go to the drill with the clutch. 

While you'll have to pry my impact driver from my cold, dead fingers to get it away from me, for the first time in a long time I'm actually drooling over a regular drill - the T15+3.  Horses for courses - you need both!

 

[James Watriss]

Agreed that most impacts are for heavy jobs. I use my 14.4 Makita for lag bolts and such pretty regularly. I also use it for screws sometimes, but my T15 handles most of the screws and drilling.

That said, I use a Bosch 10.8 impact for screws and small jobs all the time. For generic handyman-ish crap, it's great, it's light, and it's easy to throw in a small tote and bring with me. I worked at a boatyard last year, and it's become one of the 'big things' around there... both because of the versatility in conjunction with hex-shank drill bits, and the size... it's easier to get into tight spaces.

I still love my C12 and T15. But the little Bosch is a sneaky one... it's still a closet favorite of mine.

 

[Sparktrician]

Hello all - 1st post here.  I am a long-time home improvement addict that has started moving towards cabinetry.  My tools reflect this history - most of my stuff is large and heavy duty.  As the next few projects on the plate require some more precision, both in terms of my craft and the tools, I've had to spend a few bucks on things to do a better job - cabinet saw, Kreg jig, rail/style router bit set, etc.

I've been a long-time impact driver user - I got the old blue Makita 14.4 volt stuff back in 2005 and just this past January upgraded to the new Dewalt 18v lithium drill and impact driver.  Other than the noise, the impact driver has been one of the most revolutionary tools I've used since my first pneumatic nailer.  Until I started assembling the pocket hole joints in the Melamine that I'm working in, that is.  I am pretty adept at using the impact driver even for tasks like hanging drywall, but I just couldn't swing it for the pocket holes, and had to go to the drill with the clutch. 

While you'll have to pry my impact driver from my cold, dead fingers to get it away from me, for the first time in a long time I'm actually drooling over a regular drill - the T15+3.  Horses for courses - you need both!

Ah, yes, Melamine and MDF are a recipe for re-work if one uses an impact driver.  My Kreg tool and I are long-time friends, and I learned early on that the pocket joinery works great with most materials, including MDF, and even pressure-treated pine for outdoor applications, but when joining the pieces, the clutched drill is far more dependable in getting the screw just so tight and not one bit more, while the impact driver hammers past and destroys the best holding power of the wood.  And this is where my C12 really shines.  It never overdrives the pocket screws. 

Another recipe for re-work is using hex-shanked drill bits in an impact driver.  Most times one will get away with it, but just remember that drill bits are designed to be used with constant tension applied, or even gradually-increasing tension, not hammering impacts.  Break off one drill bit using an impact driver in the final stages of a great cabinet installation and you'll get the picture VERY quickly as you try to get the broken bit out without buggering the cabinet's finish.  And you don't even want to think about having to repair the damage to the otherwise fine finish when the broken-off stub left in the impact driver contacts the finish before you can back away from the drilling action.  Been there, done that. 

 

[TJ Cornish]

I just bought a Domino - I'm not sure how long the Kreg jig and I will remain friends!  Anyone want to buy a biscuit jointer?  [big grin]