c12 drill vs. impact

[jframe]

Just out of curiosity,who uses C12 or other festool drills instead of an impact to drive screws and why?
I like the features of the C12 alot,but have vever used one on a job.I prefer to use my 18vlxt impact.Are these festool drills ''magic'' or what?

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have not used an impact driver since I bought my c-12 a couple years ago.

The one thing I don't miss is all the noise.

 

[jframe]

other than the noise(WICH SUCKS) why not? does it do something that my regular makita cordless doesn't do?

 

[mastercabman]

I use the C12 (2)!!  No impact for me.I just think it's over kill for me.  And i hate the noise!!!

 

[mastercabman]

other than the noise(WICH SUCKS) why not? does it do something that my regular makita cordless doesn't do?

If you like your Makita drill then be happy with it.I like my C12 for few reasons.
1; I like the size and weight
2;I like the RA attachment
3;I can drill holes without blow out
4;I can use any drill bit,hole saw,fostner bit,etc...
5;I have had my C12'S for about 5 years and not a problem.
6;Speed is also an issue with impact,I can drive small screws at low speed without damaging them.
7;Did i mention that i did not like the noise of impact drill?
Maybe i'm just old school but i really like my C12.

 

[jmbfestool]

I use both  IMPACT drill and Fesotol T15 Drill.  You can but you dont really use a Impact drill to drill holes into to wood.  I think you should use a Impact for large screws its much easier than any drill driver even Festool because you dont have to put alot of pressure onto the drill to stop the head from spinning in the screw and it flys the screws in.  What a impact CANT do easily is small screws for kitchens and they havnt got angle attachments which is often used for kitchen fitting or other jobs similar where you have tight spaces hence why they dont have lights on them or belt hooks because festool have made them really for workshop type joinery.  Alot of Festool Drill owners are workshop joiners thats why they prefer the Festool Drills and you dont use a impact to make furniture.  Its the mentality of the people really most Festool drill owners are finishing joiners  you wont see alot of site workers (house bashers) own festool drills they are more for POWER get it done quick quick quick rough rough rough so prefer impact drills.. 

I think you need to use both depending on the job I dont think you can just replace one with the other but ofcorse you can do everything with a driver but not a impact because of the chuck. So you could just use the Festool drills but you could just use a makita driver or other brands.

The reason why the festool drills are special  well the one I own T15 is its only a 14.4V but it is stronger than most 18V and even as strong as 24v drills  its one of the smallest drills in length so for size and power ratio its the most powerfull drill on the market.  The attachments are so usefull  I love the angle attachment and the offset attachment does come in alot with my work. The batteries last a long long time I have used a drill yet which last longer.

Downfall no LED light and no belt hook so not site friendly I would say!!!

The new 18V is coming with Belt hook

 

[Brice Burrell]

Besides the noise, I don't the gearing on impacts. They'll super fast, too fast to have good control without the tip jumping out screw, very frustrating. I'm sure someone using one all the time might be about to control the thing better than I can. I understand Makita has come out with an impact with 3 speeds settings, that seems like a step in the right direction.

 

[justinmcf]

i could not build steel framed houses without an impact driver. the bits we often use are the 5/16 roofing/tech bits. we also use no 2 philip heads for screwing aluminium doors and windows to the frames, and we also use the square head bits when we have to modify the windows and doors as the joinery workshops tend to use the square headed screws these days.

for every 1 screw i can screw in using my protool 18 volt cordless drill, a carpenter beside me can screw in 2 screws using the 18 volt makita impact driver.

the impact drivers are a necessity these days because of speed.

yes they are noisy, and yes i wear earmuffs, and yes i shout at my carpenter to stop using the impact driver when i am on the phone!

for workshop use, such as making furniture and cabinet making, i could get by with the festool or protool cordless drills.

but for general building and construction work, its a no brainer, i need impact drivers.

currently i have 5 makita impact drivers.

so the sooner protool get their act together, the sooner i can sell the makitas and buy the black and orange impact drivers (protool)!

justin.

 

[Dan Clark]

I have the little Makita "White Whale" impact driver.  Nice tool great for tough screws, but a little slow.  Then I noticed that 1) the new Makita 3-speed impact driver could use the White Whale batteries and 2) the bare tool (tool-only) driver was offered on Amazon for $135.  I jumped on it.

Outcome?  It is AWESOME!  The new brushless motor is much more powerful than the White Whale.  It's not quite as smooth as my C12, but it's MUCH smoother than the White Whale motor. 

And the power?  In "3" mode, it powers the biggest screws I have (3-1/2" X 5/16" lag screws) into a 4X4 lickety-split.  In "1" mode it gently taps in the smallest screws.  I find that the "2" mode works well most of the time.  If flush installation is critical, I'll use 2 or 3 to get them most of the way in and change to 2 or 1 to gently tap them home.  I love this thing.  8)

Now the bad news... The bare tool is now up to $150: http://www.amazon.com/Bare-Tool-Makita-BTD144Z-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B002BA5YO4/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1277350376&sr=8-9 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[fso]

I recently sold my Dewalt 18V NiCd cordless gear which I did not like very much in order to buy the T15+3. Actually ended up buying a Panasonic 14.4 V Li ion based drill with impact driver and flashlight for the fraction of the cost of the Festool driver. I paid 350 EURO for the complete set, the Festool T 15+3 would have cost me EURO 510 for the plus version or 617 for the complete set.

The impact driver has three speed settings and works very well for smaller screws as  well and is incredibly fast with large screws. I find that for most of my screw driving (diameters 3-5 mm, screw length 20-70 mm) I prefer to use the impact driver. After a very short period you get the hang of it. It drives these smaller screws without going to impact mode untill the screw head is starting to work its way into the wood (I don't pre-drill or counter sink). Then the impact mode starts to deliver the higher torque, which is the acoustic trigger to stop driving the screw, which by then sits nicely flush with the wood surface.

The impact driver additionally seems much more capable in removing old screws without stripping the heads when compared to a regular drill driver.

Occasionally I use it for large screws and bolts and then of course it is working on impact mode and making quite a bit of noise, but for those screws the drill/driver is a poor choice.

This is my first impact driver, previously I assumed they were only usefull in framing. I regred that I did not get one sooner.

Besides the big cost savings compared to the festools (because unlike festool other brands can be found at a discount) you get a set of tools that is light, handles very well (good balance, grip), does have a useful integrated LED and belt hook. What you don't get is the angle chuck and other festool goodies. But having said that I did not run into a need for them (yet).

 

[Nigel]

             The main difference for me apart from speed   is the type of screw head you are using.For pozi head I would only use  impact.You can drive in and out easy and quick.Sometimes you have to dismantle something  built with pozi.Try it with a cordless,nightmare cam out.Try it with an impact, screws back out no cam out[or they snap!]

           Torx are another story.They drive easy with a cordless.I've used a c12 on torx and was impressed.If I could get rid of all pozi I would happily trade Makita LXT for c12 15 or18.

          One other thing with impacts is you can smash bits fairly easy but you can get special impact bits if you look around.

 

[justinmcf]

hi nigel.

speaking of torx screws.

i notice in all the festool and protool promo videos, they show their drills screwing torx screws with ease.

thats great that they screw these big torx screws in so easily, but these torx screws are not generally used in australian construction.

maybe in other parts of the world they are common, but not on building sites down under.

justin.

 

[jvsteenb]

Perhaps it's about time you changed that ?
Pozidriv is somewhat nice, but only an adaption to the Phillips head, wich is DESIGNED to cam out.

Torx is a LOT better, trust me. but someone has to start using them.

Regards,

Job

 

[Nigel]

         Speaking of Torx ,I recently used  these http://wurthproducts.com/products.aspx?SectionID=3

and they are phenomenal.They really do drive so easy.It's hard to work out why cause they are not particularly sharp!

 

[marrt]

I have two impacts and if you do "rough" work, like building decks for example, they are absolutely the way to go.  In my opinion, NOTHING drives screws like an impact.  You will rarely strip the head of a screw using an impact (maybe never if you use torx headed screws).  But, as mentioned, it's not for precision work. 

 

[Sparktrician]

I find that using the C12 is better when installing MDF products (cabinets and the like) since the impact drivers tend to tear out MDF VERY quickly.  [scared]  Any drill-driver used carefully on low speed allows far better control and feel when driving screws into MDF of any thickness.  Now if I were building a deck, I'd be using impact drivers in a heartbeat, both battery-powered and corded (for lag screws and carriage bolts). 

 

[Rob-GB]

As a comparison, just recently I had to help out on a job to get some drylining done in advance of the plasterer. The plasterer was on site and helping too.
Now that is what you call teamwork [big grin].
Anywho, he had an Hitachi impact cordless and me my new T15( without the drywall chuck as yet). We were fixing into a mix of new CLS studs and oak beams ranging in age from circa 1690 to 1870 give or take a decade or two!
The Hitachi got those drywall screws in, regardless. [smile]
But many of them ended up below the paper surface [sad]
The T15 got them in, with the aid of a thumb flick of the torque dial, and when I went too excitable with my thumb we got an extra deep setting [embarassed]. Ended up him cutting and me screwing fixing the stuff.  ;D
Rob.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have run in hundreds of 5/16"x 10" GRK RSS screws with my C-12.  Most into ancient oak and chestnut framing around here.

I have yet to strip a head or break a tip.

I love those GRK's and their tips.

 

[jframe]

I bought the LXT211 set back in Jan and am really happy w/ it.It came with impact and hammer drill I use the drill as a pre-drill and the impact for driving screws.Works really well for me,I do alot of different work from commercial trim and window installs one week to framing an addition,hell last month I poured a foundation. I was just wondering if there was something I was missing about the festool drills. Thanks for all the responses

 

[jmbfestool]

The only screws I will use now are

* Reisser R2 cutter
Not very commen but very good screws.  Good for on ends of timber without splitting the timber

* Ultimate (which comes with a long blue bit free brilliant bit hardly every breaks with impact drill)
Most commen screws in UK

* Spax
Also most commen screws in the UK

* Classic Plus (Comes with Free hex torx bit)
Also not very commen scews but with the Hex end its very good for high torque

Non of these screws above need a pilot hole  especially the Reisser R2 cutter they have  two slots in the screws which allows you to screw right on an edge of timber or on the end of a timber with out it splitting

They are all better quality so PZ2 bits fit in them very tight so very easy to screw in even with high torque you dont often slip especially the Ultimates and Classic Plus.  

I use the Ultimates most because my local sells them and you get a free bit in every box I only need one for about 10 boxes to be honest before they break.

I hate using normal screws now they are rubbish especially the silver screws they never seem to fit the bit right and the tips arnt as sharp.

I have all the screws above mentioned of all sizes from 25mm to 100mm so if any one wants to see a demo of these screws VS ordinary screws ill be happy to do a demo so you can see the difference between them.