Can hobbist buy and spray pre-catalyzed lacquer on site?

[tjbnwi]

Tom, do you use a Zipwall system for containment?

Yes.

Tom

 

[Scott B.]

Tom, do you use a Zipwall system for containment?

Yes.

Tom

Liking your recent economy of words.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I'll mention again, whatever you decided shoot only waterborne products. You're not set up for solvents.

I assume you're concerned with the explosion risk?

Yes.

Tom

The Lower Explosive Limit (LEL) of lacquer is higher than the IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health).

In other words, if you are going to have an explosion, you won't care about it, because you will already be dead. If you don't believe that, go look up the numbers on the MSDS sheets.

 

[tjbnwi]

I'll mention again, whatever you decided shoot only waterborne products. You're not set up for solvents.

I assume you're concerned with the explosion risk?

Yes.

Tom

The Lower Explosive Limit (LEL) of lacquer is higher than the IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health).

In other words, if you are going to have an explosion, you won't care about it, because you will already be dead. If you don't believe that, go look up the numbers on the MSDS sheets.

My concern is, most people starting out spraying run cheep fans to evacuate the area. Running the air/fuel mixture through a motor can be an issue. Most do not own explosion proof fans.

Thus my statement--you are not set up to shoot solvents. Maybe "equipped" would have been a better word to use.

Tom

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Tom, if you're going to advise people on this, you really need to increase your information sources. The OSHA PEL for lacquer is about 150ppm. The LD50 (Lethal Dose) is about 2000 ppm. The LEL is about 20,000 to 120,000 ppm. You are wearing a non-fit-tested APR, which will have a protection factor well below 5 (10 if fit tested).

The bottom line is that if you have personnel in the room, they will be long dead before you reach even the bottom LEL concentration. The concentration passing through your fan will be no higher than the ambient level in the room, and most likely lower due to speed and mixing. Additionally, most window fans are induction. They don't make sparks.

The situation could be different if you are using a small vent-hood type spray booth, where the operator is outside the spray cabinet.

 

[tjbnwi]

Tom, if you're going to advise people on this, you really need to increase your information sources. The OSHA PEL for lacquer is about 150ppm. The LD50 (Lethal Dose) is about 2000 ppm. The LEL is about 20,000 to 120,000 ppm. You are wearing a non-fit-tested APR, which will have a protection factor well below 5 (10 if fit tested).

The bottom line is that if you have personnel in the room, they will be long dead before you reach even the bottom LEL concentration. The concentration passing through your fan will be no higher than the ambient level in the room, and most likely lower due to speed and mixing. Additionally, most window fans are induction. They don't make sparks.

The situation could be different if you are using a small vent-hood type spray booth, where the operator is outside the spray cabinet.

I don't need to---you're there to fill in the gaps (I mean this in the most proper and respectful way, please take it this way).

Thank you for the info by the way.

Tom

 

[brewster201]

Hello Rick I believe Tom is talking about water-based precat Lacquer.

Just adding my 2 cents, I recently switched over from a Fuji 4 stage/pressure pot setup to Kremlin 15-25 AAA pump.
The Kremlin has a much softer spray with very little bounce back. Remember with the Fuji setup you are pushing product through a nozzle and air to at atomize, the Kremlin is compressing the paint through a nozzle (500-800 psi) and using a small amount for the tails (10-20 psi)
There is 0 noise and just lays down Kem Aqua plus like glass and really just prefer the Kremlin. There is no dry mist issues (tiger stripping)
The time you purchase a Fuji 5 stage, T-70 gun hoses, pressure pot you could buy a decent AAA pump for not much more.
Just a thought to ponder.

 

[tiralie]

Just adding my 2 cents, I recently switched over from a Fuji 4 stage/pressure pot setup to Kremlin 15-25 AAA pump.

Interesting, why the 15-25 AAA and not the new 10:1?

The time you purchase a Fuji 5 stage, T-70 gun hoses, pressure pot you could buy a decent AAA pump for not much more.
Just a thought to ponder.

Unfortunately this is correct, with the caveat that "much more" is a relative term when you are talking about $1500-2000.
However, the world of AAA up until fairly recently is complex in terms of pumps and set ups etc. and it is easy to buy the wrong unit.
Graco amoung other vendors produces some very good "generic" information on AAA and Airless systems that help make purchasing the right systems easier.
Tim

 

[brewster201]

Hello Tim it has been a quick learning curve but really happy with the results
The 15-25 was recommended for WB. I was fortunate to find a good used one in Mississuga and including the hoses, filter, Xcite gun and fluid heater.
I'm very interested in getting the fluid heater setup, a large learning curve lol
Nice setup with y at the gun and spill back to the suction to circulate for temp control, not to sure on the temp I need, maybe 80-90egs

Bruce

 

[brewster201]

This is my setup, I have not completed the spill back
I have dual control for pump and air to gun control. One outside and inside the booth
Having it outside makes it easier for cleanup

 

[Klemm]

Why undertake a complex project with no prior experience with the material, the process, the particular equipment in the most difficult setting for this process?

How about starting with lawnfurniture  or shop cabinets sprayed in your garage to see what you are getting into first? Something with much greater tolerance for your lack of experience  [smile]
Hans

 

[brewster201]

I'm not sure if your responding to me lol
You sell truck accessories!
These forums are here to share ideas and have good conversation
I'm fortunate to have years of experience with HVLP and decided move to a better system. I have sprayed around 40 Kitchens and too many cabinets
I'm trying to make my jobs better and easier on my myself. I retired 4 years ago after 37 years in the oil gas industry,  power house, operation and maintenance.
Was involved in refinery grass-root startups, HP Boiler operation, Co-gen and water treatment plants.
I'm now happy to be involved in my passion

My pump setup is positioned outside my 8x10 spraybooth and have been using a 50 door vertical door rack

This is not a hobby but a business

The Kremlin system is not rocket science!

Bruce

 

[tjbnwi]

I'm not sure if your responding to me lol
You sell truck accessories!
These forums are here to share ideas and have good conversation
I'm fortunate to have years of experience with HVLP and decided move to a better system. I have sprayed around 40 Kitchens and too many cabinets
I'm trying to make my jobs better and easier on my myself. I retired 4 years ago after 37 years in the oil gas industry,  power house, operation and maintenance.
Was involved in refinery grass-root startups, HP Boiler operation, Co-gen and water treatment plants.
I'm now happy to be involved in my passion

My pump setup is positioned outside my 8x10 spraybooth and have been using a 50 door vertical door rack

This is not a hobby but a business

The Kremlin system is not rocket science!

Bruce

Bruce,

I read it as Hans is questioning the original poster.

Tom

 

[usatu]

Thanks all especially Tom for your input. I am willing to learn although there is a huge learning curve for me. First thing in mind is safety then comes the finish. For sure I will use water based products   

I am wondering whether 1000 cmf attic fan+ filter is good enough for ventilation? What kind of impact if I open the windows/door next to kitchen but not directly facing kitchen? Will that be helpful for ventilation if I spray in a calm day? Will dry paint particles travel that way and make a mess? 

 

[brewster201]

Oops I must apologize, sorry it was after my story

Too much coffee

Bruce

 

[Klemm]

I'm not sure if your responding to me lol
You sell truck accessories!
These forums are here to share ideas and have good conversation
I'm fortunate to have years of experience with HVLP and decided move to a better system. I have sprayed around 40 Kitchens and too many cabinets
I'm trying to make my jobs better and easier on my myself. I retired 4 years ago after 37 years in the oil gas industry,  power house, operation and maintenance.
Was involved in refinery grass-root startups, HP Boiler operation, Co-gen and water treatment plants.
I'm now happy to be involved in my passion

My pump setup is positioned outside my 8x10 spraybooth and have been using a 50 door vertical door rack

This is not a hobby but a business

The Kremlin system is not rocket science!

Bruce

My post was in response to the stated topic of this thread : "can a hobbyist spray . . ."
my suggestion, in keeping with sharing experience on this forum, is for a  hobbyist to consider the learning curve in finishing and practice in an environment that is more forgiving than a residential interior.
I had not considered that what I do for a living negates my decades of experience with finishing of all types of processes and qualifies me from making a suggestion intendeds to help.
Hans

 

[brewster201]

Sorry Hans but you came off as very condesending and really not very helpfull!!
One should not highlight there product info/TSO(retailer) in these forums!
Who cares!

Bruce

 

[tiralie]

I'm trying to make my jobs better and easier on my myself. I retired 4 years ago after 37 years in the oil gas industry,  power house, operation and maintenance.
Was involved in refinery grass-root startups, HP Boiler operation, Co-gen and water treatment plants.
I'm now happy to be involved in my passion

Bruce:
Thanks for the background, nice story.

I notice that Richelieu is selling the 15-25c pumps and excite guns but not their other systems. Interesting.
Tim

 

[brewster201]

Hello Tim
Thank You

Richelieu has the Kremlin EOS 10-C18,15-C25 and the 30C-C25 listed

Really enjoy the Xcite gun and have been using the fine finish tip from CAT #411. 30% cheaper than the Kremlin tip and works great

There is a wide range of tips for whatever your spraying, I had been using the Kem Aqua but this year now only Kem Aqua plus (Thanks to Tom)

I was fortunate when I purchased the system it included many spare parts and gun kits

Bruce

 

[mike_aa]

Sorry Hans but you came off as very condesending and really not very helpfull!!
One should not highlight there product info/TSO(retailer) in these forums!
Who cares!

Bruce

Hi [member=47700]brewster201[/member] As far as I know, retailers of Festool and aftermarket products are customarily recognized here on FOG.  If you peruse even this thread you will see at least one other post from another retailer.

That being said, I am happy that individual retailers like Hans from [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] are active here.  He has been an incredibly helpful member in many ways and his innovative GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares are a superb addition to the various Festool aftermarket accessories that I have been exposed to on this forum.

Thanks, Mike A.