Can the new Impact Driver TID 18 be used to loosen wheel lugs?

[six-point socket II]

It's actually very relevant, it screams don't do it.

But honestly, do it all you want. Then come back here and tell everyone how that TID is a piece of junk.

I'll be here.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Spandex]

The tool is capable of outputting 180Nm. That’s it. If whatever the tool is trying to turn (wheel nut, coach bolt, wood screw, planet earth) isn’t moving, then 180Nm is what will be applied to the gearbox, mechanism and shank of the tid18.

If you’re suggesting that Festool have made a tool that literally can’t handle the torque it’s capable of outputting then you need to back that up because it’s quite the claim.

Obviously if you sat there with the trigger pulled for ages, heating up the tool, it will eventually take its toll, but there’s no reason why it can’t handle its own rated maximum torque momentarily.

 

[six-point socket II]

I have never said that the tool can't handle its own torque output.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Spandex]

I have never said that the tool can't handle its own torque output.

Kind regards,
Oliver

You said “it will suffer” and “it will fail”. Neither of these things should happen just because an impact driver (ANY impact driver) tries to turn a fixing (ANY fixing) that is beyond its maximum torque.

Telling people that the TID18 isn’t the best tool for wheel bolts is fine. Telling them that it will struggle to loosen anything other than clean, correctly torques wheel bolts is fine. But telling them that it will damage the tool isn’t helpful.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Telling people that the TID18 isn’t the best tool for wheel bolts is fine. Telling them that it will struggle to loosen anything other than clean, correctly torques wheel bolts is fine. But telling them that it will damage the tool isn’t helpful.

This is a clear cut case of looking for the boundaries of what a standard impact driver can do, and most certainly going over these boundaries. Seems only sensible to warn for damage to a $400 tool. I fiddled a Milwaukee impact wrench the other day and the thing weighed 4,5 Kilos! There is a difference for a reason you know, impact drivers and wrenches are just not in the same league.

Also amazing how you and some other folks here go by some numbers on paper. That's not how it works in real life. I had a T15 burn up just for driving a bunch of 10 cm screws too fast after each other.

And I grew up in body shop. I had to remove wheels many times, and those bolts can be incredibly tight. We used 1/2 inch hand wrenches, and the times we had to hammer them or put on a meter long extension rod are countless. Bolts rust or the original tension on them became much bigger due to the stress of driving.

 

[Spandex]

I’m not going by any numbers. It’s irrelevant what the maximum torque of the tool is - if the fixing is beyond that torque, the tool will exert its maximum torque with no rotation occurring. That’s the same for any impact.

Do you think the impact driver knows the difference between a stuck wood screw and a stuck wheel bolt?

 

[RKA]

I think we are just arguing for the sake of arguing, nothing new being brought to light.  So let’s let this line of conversation end, please?

 

[aloysius]

An important item to keep in mind is that torque specs are set for the fastening of dry and clean threads, both nuts and bolts, unless otherwise specified. Even a low grade lubricant can have a huge effect on the squeeze resulting from a specified torque. 30% over torque is not uncommon with a light oil on the threads. This is probably a cause of a lot of over torque. After a year on the road and that oil is no longer effective but the extra squeeze is still there. That is a contributing factor to why studs break and wrenches break.

Interesting!  Thanks for that.  I'd had regular studs shearing off from my Falcon Outback Ute-erus.  Which I'd put down to a combo of heavy loads:  slide-on camper or occasional 1500kg of fuelwood piled onboard over severe corrugations.  But it's successor (Falcon RTV) has never suffered similarly.  But probable airgun overtorqueing makes much more sense now.

 

[ach_78]

The tool is capable of outputting 180Nm. That’s it. If whatever the tool is trying to turn (wheel nut, coach bolt, wood screw, planet earth) isn’t moving, then 180Nm is what will be applied to the gearbox, mechanism and shank of the tid18.

If you’re suggesting that Festool have made a tool that literally can’t handle the torque it’s capable of outputting then you need to back that up because it’s quite the claim.

Obviously if you sat there with the trigger pulled for ages, heating up the tool, it will eventually take its toll, but there’s no reason why it can’t handle its own rated maximum torque momentarily.

I think you made it crystal clear.

Any impact tool that is not capable of doing this (hammering a nut that won't give) is pure sheite.

Considering Festool reliability track record I would bet that have been running those tools against welded nuts (thus at max torque) during tenth, if not hundreds of hours, in dedicated jigs during testing phase. I would be worried if I learned that they haven't done that.

Frankly I find it amusing that people get all worried at the toll an impact energized toll can take while impacting. It's what it's made for, guys, literally. But you can baby your impact, it'll be just fine too.

 

[ach_78]

Well, I've tried it, since I've recently got a TID 18.

The driver INSTANTLY busted the lugs free. Granted, they are not rusted or overtightened. The car is 9 years old, I rotate tires regularly and torque the bolts to spec (100N.m, dry).

For what it's worth. YMMV on over-tightened or seized lugs, don't know, can't tell.

 

[six-point socket II]

I'd be seriously interested in the details.

What car?

What adaptor(s) was/where used? 1/4" hex to 1/2" square? 1/4" hex to 3/8" square? No adaptor/ socket with 1/4" hex shaft?

What socket was used? Impact? Shallow or Deep? Size?

How many of the lugs were unscrewed?

Thank you & kind regards,
Oliver

 

[ach_78]

It is a small city car, steel wheels, lugs are torqued down to 100N.m as mentioned.

I used a 1/4" hex to 1/2" square from Grey Pneumatic
Socket is a wheel specific Facom 17mm with the plastic sleeve to avoid damage to rims, it is a long socket

Out of curiosity I'm going to torque them to more than 100N.m, see if/when the TID 18 will start to struggle.

 

[six-point socket II]

Thanks!

I can see how the TID was able to loosen those.

I wouldn't over torque lug nuts just for fun. Find some other bolts you can torque.

That out they way, I'm curious to hear at what number the TID fails to loosen the freshly torqued bolts/lug nuts.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[grobkuschelig]

Oliver for me it was:
- AUDI A1
- torqued to 120nm (Stahlwille Torque wrench)
- 5 bolts per wheel
- TID18, 4Ah Battery - Speed Set to “2”
- Milwaukee impact 1/4” to 1/2” Adapter
- Long Stahlwille Socket 17mm

Speed setting, as mentioned above at 2. (Don’t ask me why?!)
“Hammering” between 1 and 3 seconds per bolt.

No complaints here. And definitely faster than what I did before...

Putting the wheels back on I also used the TID18, but stopped pushing the trigger as soon as it started to impact (speed 2).
This gave me a good 1/4 turn before the torque wrench clicked.

Happy as a camper with these two...

 

[six-point socket II]

Awesome! (Still pains me to see it being done, but your tool, your choice.)

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[FestitaMakool]

Sure the TID can..
The little 12V on the left of the brothers seen here just loosened my wheel bolt (alloy wheels), close to 120Nm. The bigger is almost 60Nm more than it’s little brother and the same as TID18 (180Nm)
It shouldn’t have been more than 90Nm.. but now it is @90 using the correct bits for the job:
[attachimg=1]

Edit: But I do not use my impacts for this (car shops do..), I use pneumatic and more correctly as Grobkushelig correctly is showing a proper torque wrench.

 

[DavidCBaker]

Not on my big ag tractor, on which I attach the lug nuts at 450 lb ft.

 

[grobkuschelig]

...Still pains me to see it being done, but your tool, your choice....

I don’t really see an issue since the usage is well below the torque limits of the TID and at least in my mind there should not be any difference between how the torque is “seen” by the machine, since it always only has the 1/4” bit interface.

Looking at a smaller bolt or a Torx screw, you would face a similar range of forces, also applied through the same interface...

For sure I would go for a different tool in a commercial auto shop, but for the 2 times per year that I change tires, the old saying is applied:
“The tool cost enough, it’d better be able to do the job...!”

 

[FestitaMakool]

Not on my big ag tractor, on which I attach the lug nuts at 450 lb ft.

Well you could strip them with Milwaukee’s 2000+ Nm M18 impact:
Not recommended though [big grin]
[attachimg=1]

 

[ach_78]

For the sake of the experiment, I have cranked wheel bolts to 200N.m
Not willing to try higher

TID in position 2 : came out in maybe 2 seconds
In position 3 : took maybe 1 second

Tightening in position 1, lug was almost there at 100N.m, finished with the torque wrench.
Battery was a 5,2Ah battery around 70% charged.

Pretty impressed at the results. Didn’t think it was so powerful.

So to answer the original question, I’d say working on lug nuts is definitely well within the working enveloppe of the TID 18. It’s not a 1/2” air impact though, so I guess a seized bolt could stop it.

Properly torqued, clean bolts won’t be a problem.