Carvex Question..

[WelshWood]

Hey Guys,

Been tempted to get he Festool Carvex jigsaw to do some roofing cuts that I have coming up..

I normally use a circular saw to cut the birdsmouth and then use a hand saw to finish the cut where the circular saw can't reach, but if the jigsaw is good enough to do perfectly square cuts, I can see the investment being a massive timesaver..

One thing that worries me though is the power of the Carvex, every video that I've seen it seems to struggle compared to other jigsaws. I don't expect a below par product for a high end price, and whats more worrying is the clip i've seen of the Carvex against a Mafell Jigsaw which I have attached here;

Any feedback would be appreciated,

~WW

 

[peter halle]

The video mentioned in the previous post has been removed.  There are a couple of threads here regarding that "review".  The threads were locked but are viewable.

The locking of the threads and the removal of the video had nothing to do with the concept of showing a review or even showing the capabilities of the Mafell.

Peter Halle - Moderator

 

[Locks14]

I have the Mafell instead of the Carvex. Partly because of the video, I know some people have questioned the validity of that review, but there's no smoke without fire. Also partly because of many other independent threads stating problems with the Carvex. Finally I handled one and I just wasn't that impressed with it. The best way I can describe it, is the Mafell was "eager" to eat its way through the material, whilst the Carvex felt a little reluctant/underpowered.

In another thread I remember reading, a member (forget which one) summed up as:

Bosch jigsaws = power/brute force
Festool jigsaws = precision
Mafell = Both power and precision.

 

[wrightwoodwork]

Best thing to do is try them both.  I have the mafell. The thing that put me off the carvex is having to mess about with guide roller adjustment every time you change the blade. Just seems s faff in my mind.    The only real negative with the mafell is price

 

[Phil Beckley]

Hi
  Again, this Mafell / Carvex 'review' comes to the surface for another breath of air. There is a historical element behind this video as to were it came from and the reasons why it was published which personally i think are best left alone.
If you are not sure use the 15 day return policy.
keep or return and use it for the applications you work on.
Visit one of our trade shows and try it out.
The Carvex is an excellent machine...........
rg
Phil

 

[mrboult]

That video people are talking about is a joke. I've done that cut many times perfectly with no issues. It might be that the Mafel is quicker (I've no idea) but I've never found my carvex underpowered.

It is a wonderful jigsaw that I can not fault. The Carvex 420's blade guides are a faff when adjusting them often, but without them the jigsaw wouldn't be the great tool it is. (The 400 has a 'normal' non-adjustable guide that leaves the saw lacking in accuracy in many cuts)

When I bought my 420 battery carvex I was going to sell my older Festool Trion. But I can't part with it. For all the wonderful features and advancements in the Carvex, the Trion is still the best feeling jigsaw I've ever used. It's smooth and solid like nothing else.

 

[Locks14]

Hi
  Again, this Mafell / Carvex 'review' comes to the surface for another breath of air. There is a historical element behind this video as to were it came from and the reasons why it was published which personally i think are best left alone.
If you are not sure use the 15 day return policy.
keep or return and use it for the applications you work on.
Visit one of our trade shows and try it out.
The Carvex is an excellent machine...........
rg
Phil

If this is such a bone of contention why not organise for a better review to take place?  Festool organise/fund the purchase of a Mafell P1CC and send it along with a Carvex to someone who is independent and respected to do a side by side review and give an honest assessment of the pro's and con's of each machine.

For less than £500 this could be the best investment Festool ever make in putting this issue to bed, that is if they are confident the findings in that video are less than transparent!

 

[Brent Taylor]

If the video in question is the one I'm thinking of and the reason that you are referring to it is the need for speed.  If so there are other methods of making that type of cut. I used to gang cut rafters and heavy timber with  a Dado cutting saw that Makita made (and still makes for other countries )I believe Mafell and Festool. A simple jig and you can cut as many as you chose.  If you want to have quality of cut a jigsaw and reasonable SPEED, you shouldn't have any melted blades.

 

[SittingElf]

Hi
  Again, this Mafell / Carvex 'review' comes to the surface for another breath of air. There is a historical element behind this video as to were it came from and the reasons why it was published which personally i think are best left alone.
If you are not sure use the 15 day return policy.
keep or return and use it for the applications you work on.
Visit one of our trade shows and try it out.
The Carvex is an excellent machine...........
rg
Phil

If this is such a bone of contention why not organise for a better review to take place?  Festool organise/fund the purchase of a Mafell P1CC and send it along with a Carvex to someone who is independent and respected to do a side by side review and give an honest assessment of the pro's and con's of each machine.

For less than £500 this could be the best investment Festool ever make in putting this issue to bed, that is if they are confident the findings in that video are less than transparent!

Where would that end?  Next, people would be calling for "independent" comparisons of drills, compound miter saws, sanders, tracksaws?  Festool doesn't NEED to prove anything. Their sales speak for themselves. No need to create a public war between companies.  Even independent tests can be manipulated.

I really don't think Festool has to worry much about Mafell.  The sales of the Carvex aren't being pummeled, and Festool is doing just fine. Additionally, their support is unparalleled, with many dealers for support and assistance,  while Mafell has ONE SINGLE dealer in the USA.

My  [2cents]
Frank 

 

[Locks14]

Hi
  Again, this Mafell / Carvex 'review' comes to the surface for another breath of air. There is a historical element behind this video as to were it came from and the reasons why it was published which personally i think are best left alone.
If you are not sure use the 15 day return policy.
keep or return and use it for the applications you work on.
Visit one of our trade shows and try it out.
The Carvex is an excellent machine...........
rg
Phil

If this is such a bone of contention why not organise for a better review to take place?  Festool organise/fund the purchase of a Mafell P1CC and send it along with a Carvex to someone who is independent and respected to do a side by side review and give an honest assessment of the pro's and con's of each machine.

For less than £500 this could be the best investment Festool ever make in putting this issue to bed, that is if they are confident the findings in that video are less than transparent!

Where would that end?  Next, people would be calling for "independent" comparisons of drills, compound miter saws, sanders, tracksaws?  Festool doesn't NEED to prove anything. Their sales speak for themselves. No need to create a public war between companies.  Even independent tests can be manipulated.

I really don't think Festool has to worry much about Mafell.  The sales of the Carvex aren't being pummeled, and Festool is doing just fine. Additionally, their support is unparalleled, with many dealers for support and assistance,  while Mafell has ONE SINGLE dealer in the USA.

My  [2cents]
Frank

To say they don't need to prove themselves is a cop out. It is standard in many industries to submit your products to reviewers for comparisons. It happens in the car industry, electronics industry, etc. It's not about a war, it's about manufacturers demonstrating confidence in their products.

If Festool has nothing to worry about with Mafell, how come the moderators/staff seem to go to DEFCON 1 each time that video is posted/mentioned?

Finally its' not all about the USA. Festool are an international company, and this forum has members from all over the world. The UK and Europe have multiple Festool and Mafell dealers in most countries.

 

[SittingElf]

Despite all that.... the solution is really simple:

Buy a Carvex.
Don't like it, or decide you think something else might be better?  RETURN IT! No harm, no foul. Money back and move on!

Frank

 

[tjbnwi]

I've been using the cordless Carvex for years to finish circular saw stopped cuts. Have yet to find a better way to accomplish the task.

Tom

 

[Locks14]

Despite all that.... the solution is really simple:

Buy a Carvex.
Don't like it, or decide you think something else might be better?  RETURN IT! No harm, no foul. Money back and move on!

Frank

I agree, the no questions return is a great service from Festool. Though for my money the more information available in the first place, to be able to buy the most appropriate product first time round, is still better than the ability to return an unwanted tool.

 

[WelshWood]

Seems like i've cooked up a storm with this post..

Genuinely didn't know that this video has had so many comments about it already so sorry if you thought I was bringing it back from the dead..

I can understand some comments comparing speed to quality, and would rather quality over speed anyday. However, it just seemed alarming the difference between the two.

Even so, with any tool you will get there will be people for an against it, and through experience, I haven't had any trouble with Festool as the quality speaks for itself, seems like i'll have to take advantage of the 15 day send back option

~WW

 

[Wuffles]

...I haven't had any trouble with Festool as the quality speaks for itself, seems like i'll have to take advantage of the 15 day send back option

~WW

Unless like me your Carvex starts to "under-perform" outside the 15 days, goes off for repair and is returned without much clue as to what went wrong with it. You lose confidence (and money in the 5 blades it torched whilst being "faulty" even though an employee of Festool USA is convinced it's YOU who are at fault) and decide to sell it on and get the Mafell and wish you'd just gone down that route in the first place.

 

[Phil Beckley]

Hi
  Again, this Mafell / Carvex 'review' comes to the surface for another breath of air. There is a historical element behind this video as to were it came from and the reasons why it was published which personally i think are best left alone.
If you are not sure use the 15 day return policy.
keep or return and use it for the applications you work on.
Visit one of our trade shows and try it out.
The Carvex is an excellent machine...........
rg
Phil

If this is such a bone of contention why not organise for a better review to take place?  Festool organise/fund the purchase of a Mafell P1CC and send it along with a Carvex to someone who is independent and respected to do a side by side review and give an honest assessment of the pro's and con's of each machine.

For less than £500 this could be the best investment Festool ever make in putting this issue to bed, that is if they are confident the findings in that video are less than transparent!

Where would that end?  Next, people would be calling for "independent" comparisons of drills, compound miter saws, sanders, tracksaws?  Festool doesn't NEED to prove anything. Their sales speak for themselves. No need to create a public war between companies.  Even independent tests can be manipulated.

I really don't think Festool has to worry much about Mafell.  The sales of the Carvex aren't being pummeled, and Festool is doing just fine. Additionally, their support is unparalleled, with many dealers for support and assistance,  while Mafell has ONE SINGLE dealer in the USA.

My  [2cents]
Frank

To say they don't need to prove themselves is a cop out. It is standard in many industries to submit your products to reviewers for comparisons. It happens in the car industry, electronics industry, etc. It's not about a war, it's about manufacturers demonstrating confidence in their products.

If Festool has nothing to worry about with Mafell, how come the moderators/staff seem to go to DEFCON 1 each time that video is posted/mentioned?

Finally its' not all about the USA. Festool are an international company, and this forum has members from all over the world. The UK and Europe have multiple Festool and Mafell dealers in most countries.

Sure we have to prove ourselves and the products go out for review - which is fair and balanced which the video is not. 'Defcon 1' [wink] is reached because the video has been posted many times and creates the debate which was the intended point three years ago when the CARVEX was launched. As such i will go up against it and defend the CARVEX.
  The Owners group is global and so are Festool so the information that is released needs to be correct with no underhand methods used.
The CARVEX is excellent.
rg
Phil

 

[peter halle]

Regarding the video - go find it on YouTube just like others have.  Am I at Defcon 1?  No.  But my antenna is up.  Not because of the video or the fact that it has surfaced again, but rather because I have a pretty good memory and pay attention to Members, posts, and posting patterns.  So just like earlier this month when a heated debate occurred here regarding content on the FOG I will make the same offer that was made to that Member - if you ever think that my actions here are out of line I would appreciate the feedback via a PM.

Here is why the video is not allowed as explained by Shane Holland in another thread:

"Just to add to what Peter and others have said, the Mafell dealer in question (Sander is his name) came onto the forum and began promoting and advocating Mafell products and never disclosed his affiliation with Mafell. Even after I messaged him, he denied any affiliation and pretended to just be another guy like one of you. I later found definitive proof that he was being dishonest. So, he was banned from the forum. Per our forum guidelines, another member cannot post on behalf of a banned member. This rule was in place long before this transpired.

Some time later, a thread began with a new member making their first post with a video of the Carvex bending a blade in what was portrayed as an unbiased video comparison with the P1CC. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, myself and others attempted to offer assistance only to find out later that this new forum member, as well as two others who later joined the thread, were affiliated with the aforementioned Mafell dealer, Sander, and did not disclose that information up front.

Despite what I personally felt was compelling evidence that the video was extremely biased and meant to discredit the merits of the Carvex, the thread was allowed to continue until the tests results were completed.

This Mafell dealer in the Netherlands, Sander, and his testers have been deceptive here on the forum multiple times now and I do not condone his practices. I'm surprised that Mafell allows this type of thing because I believe it hurts their brand image.

Since this thread, we have had several forum members replicate the cut without issues and post their results.

Here's a link to the fiasco, which I would agree that's what it was. Please feel free to read it, but I'd respectfully ask that we not get back into a heated debate. Use it as a reference and form your opinion. I've not revisited that thread since it was originally made, so let me apologize in advance for anything I might have said that was out of line. I believe strongly in what Festool represents and feel compelled to protect what I believe in.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/carvex-420-first-impressions"

Peter Halle - Moderator

 

[Phil Beckley]

Seems like i've cooked up a storm with this post..

Genuinely didn't know that this video has had so many comments about it already so sorry if you thought I was bringing it back from the dead..

I can understand some comments comparing speed to quality, and would rather quality over speed anyday. However, it just seemed alarming the difference between the two.

Even so, with any tool you will get there will be people for an against it, and through experience, I haven't had any trouble with Festool as the quality speaks for itself, seems like i'll have to take advantage of the 15 day send back option

~WW

Hi
P.M me your details and i will ask one of our guys on the road to stop by and then you can do a hands on 'review' to suit the work you carry out - and of course there is no obligation on this to purchase anything.
rg
Phil

 

[Phil Beckley]

Regarding the video - go find it on YouTube just like others have.  Am I at Defcon 1?  No.  But my antenna is up.  Not because of the video or the fact that it has surfaced again, but rather because I have a pretty good memory and pay attention to Members, posts, and posting patterns.  So just like earlier this month when a heated debate occurred here regarding content on the FOG I will make the same offer that was made to that Member - if you ever think that my actions here are out of line I would appreciate the feedback via a PM.

Here is why the video is not allowed as explained by Shane Holland in another thread:

"Just to add to what Peter and others have said, the Mafell dealer in question (Sander is his name) came onto the forum and began promoting and advocating Mafell products and never disclosed his affiliation with Mafell. Even after I messaged him, he denied any affiliation and pretended to just be another guy like one of you. I later found definitive proof that he was being dishonest. So, he was banned from the forum. Per our forum guidelines, another member cannot post on behalf of a banned member. This rule was in place long before this transpired.

Some time later, a thread began with a new member making their first post with a video of the Carvex bending a blade in what was portrayed as an unbiased video comparison with the P1CC. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, myself and others attempted to offer assistance only to find out later that this new forum member, as well as two others who later joined the thread, were affiliated with the aforementioned Mafell dealer, Sander, and did not disclose that information up front.

Despite what I personally felt was compelling evidence that the video was extremely biased and meant to discredit the merits of the Carvex, the thread was allowed to continue until the tests results were completed.

This Mafell dealer in the Netherlands, Sander, and his testers have been deceptive here on the forum multiple times now and I do not condone his practices. I'm surprised that Mafell allows this type of thing because I believe it hurts their brand image.

Since this thread, we have had several forum members replicate the cut without issues and post their results.

Here's a link to the fiasco, which I would agree that's what it was. Please feel free to read it, but I'd respectfully ask that we not get back into a heated debate. Use it as a reference and form your opinion. I've not revisited that thread since it was originally made, so let me apologize in advance for anything I might have said that was out of line. I believe strongly in what Festool represents and feel compelled to protect what I believe in.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/carvex-420-first-impressions"

Peter Halle - Moderator

I believe this explains the reasons behind my defence also. Thank you for posting Peter
rg
Phil

 

[fshanno]

I can't pay $735 for a jigsaw.  Sparks or no sparks.  I assume the Mafell is a good saw, probably the best saw, but I'll never know.  I see that people have posted reviews and videos and comments about the P1cc and I wish I could read and hear and see that stuff.  But a filter somewhere between my sensory organs and my brain blocks the information and replaces it with white noise an image of a price tag that reads $735.  Sort of like a TV test pattern.  Interesting sensation.  I will pay Old 735 the compliment of asserting that if my dentist was going to use a jigsaw in my mouth I would insist that he use a P1cc.  And he can afford one.

But back on Earth, it seems to me the real comparison is between the top of the line Bosch and the Carvex.  Buy both of them and try them out side by side and keep the one you like.  Or keep both of them and that would still be cheaper than Old 735.

The problem for me with the Bosch JS572EBL is the old school base.  The Carvex clip on base system is impressive.  (Let me stop here and say that I sense that I may be seeing that test pattern soon.  It has something to do with the the clip on base but I'll never know.  Oh well.)  The base is the clincher in light of the Carvex Mount Adapter from Multiblades.  With that base I suppose you don't absolutely have to have the Carvex assessory kit.  Just buy one of those adapters and build whatever kind of bases or trammels you want.  Circles nothing.  You could have ellipses if you want.  It's so easy to make an aftermarket base that we may see something from some of the other Festool add on people.  And of course Collins has a foot.

I noticed that ACME Tools has the Bosch JS572EBL on for $240.  That is significant.  You could have a Bosch and a Carvex for $600.  Now that's an interesting concept isn't it?  Would one each of the top of the line Bosch and Festool be better than one Mafell?  The duo would certainly be cheaper, $135 cheaper.  But don't tell my dentist.