Centrotec

[semenza]

Because we need another topic on Centrotec  [big grin]

From me ....... I am curious about the slipping on the Centrotec extension. Are you talking about the 492540 6" bit holder? I have several of those and have used them when needed. I haven't noticed any slipping but maybe I just missed it. What exactly is slipping?

From Harvey..... WRT slipping, my experience was that 1/4" ball detent straight bits wobbled so badly that they slipped in the slot.  I got the Snappy Centrotec to 1/4" ball detent adaptor and use now anytime I'm using a 1/4" ball detent bit.  Wish Festool made a 1/4" ball detent chuck to compliment the Centrotec chuck.

For me the beauty of the Centrotec system is that it is a compact quick change chuck (built in so to speak) that doesn't need adapters and added length to become quick change. I do wish the line of available bits would be expanded. However I have been able to put together a Centrotec set of bits that do 90%  (guesstimate) of what I need. And I only need to swap out for the Jacobs chuck for a few once in a while uses.

Seth

 

[Michael Kellough]

I wish there were more Centrotec bits too.

The beauty of the Festool drill/driver system is that you can get into closer/tighter confines with the accessory chucks than any other system available (in the US).

When there are no space restrictions I actually prefer a longer bit holder to more easily judge direction. My favorite is the Milwaukee 48-28-1010 6-Inch-by-1/4-Inch All Hex Extension. The unique thing about that particular bit holder is that it holds Centrotec bits very well. Seems to be discontinued and replaced by a less capable but smaller diameter and more conventional version...

 

[HarveyWildes]

I have a good collection of 1/4" ball detent bits.  Many of them are available in a Centrotec form factor, but I also have many that are not.  Furthermore, drilling is not a focus of most of the work that I do, at least not driver bits and small diameter holes, so my current collection of 1/4" ball detent bits is sufficient.  I very occasionally need a specialty bit, and only buy those as needed.  All of the 1/4" ball detent bits are held securely with minimal wobble in a variety of tools that I have, including my Milwaukee M12 screwdriver, impact driver, M18 impact driver, various 1/4" ball detent holders and extensions, and so on.

I decided to buy a Festool C18.  The immediate motivation was to use it with the Parf Guide System, taking advantage of the removable chucks with the aftermarket Centrotec bit for the system.  Worked great for that.  But I was also thinking in terms of just getting a higher quality drill, and wanted to see if the Festool fit the bill.  It does have a lot of nice features, but neither the drill itself nor any of the Festool adapters that I've tried do a good job of holding 1/4" ball detent bits.  The wobble (which translates to slipping for straight bits) is unacceptable.

Given that the Centrotec chuck works great with Centrotec bits, and given that other drill manufacturers have done a good job with their 1/4" ball detent bits, you'd think that Festool could make a great 1/4" ball detent chuck for the C18.  They are obviously motivated to make other good chucks, like the right angle and low clearance chucks, so they could do it.  It almost appears to me like they have gone out of their way to make using 1/4" ball detent bits an inferior experience with the C18 - in this case, vastly inferior to my Milwaukee drivers.  Perhaps they think that it will get people to buy Centrotec installer kits.  But the two weaknesses of this plan are (1) the selection of Centrotec bits is limited and the ones that are available are expensive, and (2) people are going to use 1/4" ball detent bits anyway, and using a 1/4" ball detent bit with a C18 and Festool accessories is just a bad quality experience.  The experience was so very bad that I was ready to take the C18 back.

So I tried a couple of after market adaptors, including an expensive one from Wera, but they were all designed with a 1/4" ball detent shaft with an adaptor to take Centrotec bits, rather than the other way around.  Finally I found the Snappy adaptor, which has a Centrotec shaft and an adaptor to take 1/4" ball detent bits.  The fit is just as good as the fit on my Milwaukee drivers, although it still adds weight and length.  But now I'm happy.  WRT this particular situation, Snappy made me happy, Festool just made me frustrated.  This seems to go against the grain of the Festool system quality philosophy.  IMHO, Festool should make a quality 1/4" ball detent chuck that works like their Centrotec chuck, so that I can eliminate the extra weight and length of the Snappy adaptor.

From another perspective, Festool is trying to win customers who currently are using Milwaukee, Makita, DeWalt, et al tools, all of which do a reasonably good job of holding 1/4" ball detent bits.  Those potential customers, like me, have built a collection of bits over the years, and they should reasonably expect to be able to use them with a Festool drill that they just paid $500 for, and they should work as well as or better than they work in their old drill.  So they take the drill out of the box and put in a ball detent bit, and it doesn't fit.  They use the supplied adaptor, and it wobbles.  Doesn't matter if Festool didn't design it to be used that way, it looks like a poor quality tool to the buyer because they can't get their standard bit to work right.

When I've tried to make this point in the past, people always respond by reciting all of the things that do work well with the C18, and they are right, but that's not my point.  My point is that 1/4" ball detent bits do not work well, and I think that should be a fundamental use case for easing new buyers into liking Festool tools.

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi,

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] could you take/post a picture of one of those 1/4" ball detent bits please?

I find your findings very interesting but I'm not sure I know for sure what kind of bit you are referring too.

And I would like to reply to this thread, but I want to see the "full picture" first.

Thank you!!!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[peter halle]

Yes, ball detent bits do wobble more with the FESTOOL system.  The FESTOOL system (right or wrong) for the 1/4" bits was design for the wire detent bits.

Peter

 

[HarveyWildes]

Hi,

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] could you take/post a picture of one of those 1/4" ball detent bits please?

I find your findings very interesting but I'm not sure I know for sure what kind of bit you are referring too.

And I would like to reply to this thread, but I want to see the "full picture" first.

Thank you!!!

Kind regards,
Oliver

Sure - Can't do it now, but I'll try to get it done tonight.

 

[Frank-Jan]

The eccentric chuck does have a ball detent, but it makes my c12 feel unbalanced (nose-heavy). (So it isn't a good option to use that as an adapter for the ball detent bits when you don't need the close-to-an-edge feature.)
And the even more annoying thing is, when I have to drill close to a side, and I only have centrotec drillbits at hand, those aren't held in by the ball detent eccentric chuck.

 

[semenza]

Yes, ball detent bits do wobble more with the FESTOOL system.  The FESTOOL system (right or wrong) for the 1/4" bits was design for the wire detent bits.

Peter

Yes, that's what I was going to say. I would expect 1/4" ball detent to  not  work well at all in the Festool holders. I have used them this way on occasion for oddball access situations.

I do see the use for the chuck that Harvey suggests. And I too would like a chuck designed and styled like the Centrotec chuck that would hold ball detent bits.  (BTW, nice write up Harvey).

I guess the current solution is the Snappy adapter or just put a regular 1/4" ball detent quick change into the Jacobs chuck or just put the ball detent into the Jacobs chuck. Think I might get one of those Snappy Centrotec adapters.

BTW, I love the fact that the Wera Rapidapter takes both wire and detent equally well and was designed to do just that.

A lot of the usefulness of the available Centrotec bits depends on the work being done. Like I said, for me ,  I get  90% coverage by using a combination of Festool and Snappy centrotec bits.

Seth

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Seth

I think that is also worth mentioning that as well as a short compact (Centrotec) chuck the Festool drill/drivers can operate without any chuck at all and take normal hex bits. I have often found this useful to get into tight spaces.

I am a fan of Centrotec and am pleased that other manufacturers are taking Festool's lead and producing some very useful additions to the line.

It would be nice to have more magnetism in the Festool bit holder/bits.

Peter

 

[semenza]

Hi Seth

I think that is also worth mentioning that as well as a short compact (Centrotec) chuck the Festool drill/drivers can operate without any chuck at all and take normal hex bits. I have often found this useful to get into tight spaces.

I am a fan of Centrotec and am pleased that other manufacturers are taking Festool's lead and producing some very useful additions to the line.

It would be nice to have more magnetism in the Festool bit holder/bits.

Peter

Yes, to the bold, me too. I have used 1" wire detent bits and short drill bits directly in the drill shaft many times. And also directly in the right angle shaft.

  And yes, to all of that in general.

Seth

 

[HarveyWildes]

Hi,

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] could you take/post a picture of one of those 1/4" ball detent bits please?

I find your findings very interesting but I'm not sure I know for sure what kind of bit you are referring too.

And I would like to reply to this thread, but I want to see the "full picture" first.

Thank you!!!

Kind regards,
Oliver

[member=61712]six-point socket II[/member], the mention of the Wera Rapadaptor made me think that I could supply you with a link:https://www.amazon.com/Wera-Rapidaptor-Universal-Holder-Drives/dp/B000X1R26Q.  The shaft on this adaptor is a 1/4" ball detent shaft.

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi,

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] could you take/post a picture of one of those 1/4" ball detent bits please?

I find your findings very interesting but I'm not sure I know for sure what kind of bit you are referring too.

And I would like to reply to this thread, but I want to see the "full picture" first.

Thank you!!!

Kind regards,
Oliver

[member=61712]six-point socket II[/member], the mention of the Wera Rapadaptor made me think that I could supply you with a link:https://www.amazon.com/Wera-Rapidaptor-Universal-Holder-Drives/dp/B000X1R26Q.  The shaft on this adaptor is a 1/4" ball detent shaft.

Thank you very much [member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] ! Now we're on the same page. And yes, this shaft is indeed wobbly as hell when used with the "short-sleeved" magnetic bit-holders from Festool (and others).

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[kdzito]

Thanks Harvey Wildes for mentioning the Snappy adaptor and as you quote "which has a Centrotec shaft and an adaptor to take 1/4" ball detent bits".  I ordered one of these today.

 

[HarveyWildes]

Thanks Harvey Wildes for mentioning the Snappy adaptor and as you quote "which has a Centrotec shaft and an adaptor to take 1/4" ball detent bits".  I ordered one of these today.

I hope you like it - now my reputation is on the line for this recommendation .

 

[leakyroof]

Hi,

[member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member] could you take/post a picture of one of those 1/4" ball detent bits please?

I find your findings very interesting but I'm not sure I know for sure what kind of bit you are referring too.

And I would like to reply to this thread, but I want to see the "full picture" first.

Thank you!!!

Kind regards,
Oliver

[member=61712]six-point socket II[/member], the mention of the Wera Rapadaptor made me think that I could supply you with a link:https://www.amazon.com/Wera-Rapidaptor-Universal-Holder-Drives/dp/B000X1R26Q.  The shaft on this adaptor is a 1/4" ball detent shaft.

  These ^^^^^ are my favorite 1/4" Ball Detent Chucks- Easy on, easy off, snug but not too tight. I have both the long and short versions. Regarding Snappy Centrotec, maybe it's just the batch I got[ got 'em when they first were introduced] but I don't feel the bits fit into a Centrotec Chuck as smoothly as a Festool Bit. Some are worse than others though... [blink]
Now I have to look and see if my kit came with the adapter chuck or not...

 

[harry_]

Hi Seth

I think that is also worth mentioning that as well as a short compact (Centrotec) chuck the Festool drill/drivers can operate without any chuck at all and take normal hex bits. I have often found this useful to get into tight spaces.

I am a fan of Centrotec and am pleased that other manufacturers are taking Festool's lead and producing some very useful additions to the line.

It would be nice to have more magnetism in the Festool bit holder/bits.

Peter

I have to agree with you. It's nice to drop the Centrotec chuck and be immediately a few inches shorter. However i also wish there was either a wire detent or magnet inside the motor shaft so the bit stays put.

WRT to others complaining about their collection of ball detent bits, I had the same complaint 6 (almost 7) years ago when I bought my T15+3. The reality is/was in my case the vast majority of those bits are consumable/disposable. They can, do, and will wear out. Eventually I purchased the adapter and life is better. The ball detent system IMO never was about performance but rather convenience.

 

[Jerry White]

My sorta new Snappy Centrotec set.  I find this is a nice supplement to the Festool bits.

 

[Len R]

Harvey, your reputation is solid! Thank you so much for mentioning this Snappy Centrotec adapter, which I was not aware of.  I have a very large collection of 1/4 hex shanks bits, including a custom order set of Fuller drill bits from 1/16" to 1/2" in 1/32" increments.  I have tried using these bits in the Festool adapters and there is tremendous play, lots of wobble, they fall out, etc.  This is with every adapter Festool offers.  I ordered the Snappy adapter and it is superb, no slop, no play, it is like the 1/4 bit is a Centrotec.  I now have the ability to use my entire 1/4" hex shank drill and driver collection with my TXS and my T18, and it is like using a Centrotec bit, there is no difference.  Awesome and Thank You! For anyone interested, the Snappy part is called the "Centrotec 1/4" Chuck", and the Snappy part # is 90011.  Got it on Amazon for $24.95.  Going to order another one....

Len

 

[HarveyWildes]

Hoorah!