CMS Inserts

[Dave Rudy]

Question for Christian:

Is there any way we can get CMS inserts for sale in North America, whatever the status of the rest of the CMS system?

I am sure that there are UL issues and maybe other commercial issues with importing CMS, but since the inserts alone have no electrical connections, etc., could we get them in the meantime?  I know I would (and I suspect there are others) happily make my own table if I had access to the plates.

Thanks.

Dave Rudy

 

[Michael Kellough]

Me too! It'd be a damn sight better than the one I made of 1/2" plywood to hold a Sears Craftsman saw in 1977 

 

[jonny round boy]

but since the inserts alone have no electrical connections, etc....

I don't have a CMS insert, but from what I remember they all have a built-in NVR (no-volt release) switch, with a plug & lead, and a socket for the tool. That's possibly what UL's issue is with them?

edit: Oops, just checked, and it's the CMS frame that has the NVR switch on it, not the inserts themselves...

 

[Christian93117]

Dave,

Thanks for the question.

My understanding is that a router and a router mounted into something (like CMS insert) need separate approvals. That is why
we cannot offer the insert right now.

Nobody wants to have the router table part of the CMS here in the US more than we do, and we are working on it.

Regards,

Christian

 

[Dave Rudy]

Nobody wants to have the router table part of the CMS here in the US more than we do, and we are working on it.

Regards,

Christian

Thanks, Christian, for the prompt reply.  What about the jigsaw and TS55 parts of the system?  Are those in process as well?

Dave

 

[Christian93117]

Dave,

According to our R&D department it is pretty much hopeless to get those items approved. However, we keep looking for
possible solutions and who knows, maybe we find a way to get approval.

Christian

 

[Dave Rudy]

Thanks for the info, Christian, disappointing though it might be. 

Dave

 

[nickao]

Dave,

According to our R&D department it is pretty much hopeless to get those items approved. However, we keep looking for
possible solutions and who knows, maybe we find a way to get approval.

Christian

Are we that much safer in the USA or is this bull crap? Either our rules are to strict or they are not, what is up? With all the tools already on the market I find it hard to believe the UL rules are to hard to accommodate. Those rules must be their for a reason.

Do US companies have to abide by the same group of rules? Just change the tools and get them over here to one of the biggest markets for Festool in the world. Even in this economy I believe we are out buying any other country by far.

Festool get those tools here you will sell them. Now that I have seen the vacuum clamps I see how many products Festool just is not bringing here. It doesn't make sense. They must be able to make money.

Is our country limiting their scope or are they limiting themselves?

Nickao

 

[Paul Franklin]

Nickao

I believe the European CE cert is better. Festool could bring them over with out UL but that would not be good as we live in a society that loves to sue for any reason. Plus they would not be have insurance.
So as frustrating as it is, in the long run it is better for all of us. Don't get me wrong I have lusted for years over the CMS systems, I have even thought of importing one, but the exchange rate is a killer. I for one can not wait for the Vac system.

Regards

Paul

 

[Ned]

Is our country limiting their scope...?

Yes, and the strange thing is that we North Americans are protected from things Europeans are allowed to have, and vice versa.  I'd laugh that apparently Europeans can't be trusted with a dado set on a table saw, but then on the other hand it seems that Canadians and Americans are certain to hurt themselves if they mount a jigsaw upside down in a table.

While some concerns might differ based on local conditions, I think most of the difference is what the certifying organization is used to.  Unfamiliar stuff has a tough time getting through the process anywhere.

Festool's only part in this is that much of their current product line was designed when they were dancing only to the tune played by the Euro certification organization.  I'm sure that all new design work also takes into account the preferences and biases of UL and CSA.  If we live long enough, we'll see the full line here.

Ned

 

[Steve Jones]

What's REALLY strange is that a private company (UL) decides what products you can purchase.

and YOU don't get a vote on it.

 

[Ned]

What's REALLY strange is that a private company (UL) decides what products you can purchase.

UL doesn't decide what you can buy, and they don't decide what can be sold.  The UL certification is an opinion respected by insurance companies as they try to determine the risk involved in a situation.  UL doesn't automatically have the force of law, but various states and localities may by their laws make UL certification "official".

It's true that UL doesn't seem to have much competition in the certification biz, and so inevitably starts to act like a government bureaucracy. 

Like everything else Festool does, their view of doing business in the USA is sober and conservative.  Part of that attitude would be to acquire adequate insurance.  The sober and conservative insurance company would insist on evaluations by a respected third party, that is, Underwriters Labs.

I have no idea if the Canadian CSA is in the same position, or if that organization is "official" within Canada.

Ned

 

[Dave Rudy]

If we live long enough, we'll see the full line here.

Ned

Good luck on that one, Ned! 

Is our country limiting their scope or are they limiting themselves?

Nickao

I share the frustration, but I am confident that Festool is the answer.  Indeed, I appreciate that Christian is willing to answer our questions and give us honest information.  We should applaud Festool (USA) for the consistent dialogue and interaction with its customers.  Obviously, Festool wants to sell as many tools in the US as we will buy.  Why would they not import the  whole CMS system if they had the chance? 

 

[nickao]

" Why would they not import the  whole CMS system if they had the chance? "

I don't know I really don't, why? Everything is money.

My guess is: The initial outlay needed to get the products to market in  the USA is to much and they do not see a profit in it.

Or

They have to jump through rings and hoops and they just aren't done jumping yet.

Nickao