CMS Modules in the US

[Darobe]

I understand that most / all but one of the CMS modules aren't available in the US. But can someone explain why? I would love to get a CMS with the tracksaw module. I would probably buy two CMS's so I could have a tracksaw and a router setup all the time.

I honestly can't wrap my head around why the other modules aren't available. Does somebody think they won't sell?

Thanks for any insight available.

 

[copcarcollector]

From what I understand, UL (Underwriters Laboratory) issues

Same reason you can't (aren't supposed to...) use the OF2200 router in the CMS in N America

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

My understanding is UL issues. Specifically, the big, wide open space in the motor side of the upper blade housing. I've been told that UL is worried users will start the saw, then reach underneath to adjust something and stick their fingers into the blade housing.

I've tried the TS CMS module. Based on my experience, my opinion and advise is: Assuming you have access to NAINA items, unless you are the most casual of woodworkers, you will be unhappy with the CMS-TS, compared to a traditional table saw. The weakness lies in the fact that you are trying to adjust an upside-down handheld saw. Want to adjust the bevel? Get ready to get down on your knees, loosen the front and rear bevel knobs, try to read a relatively small, upside down bevel gauge, and then tighten the front and rear knobs. Certainly not impossible, but ponderous when trying to work at anything approaching production speed. Depth setting is a little tricky as well, since now you're not only fighting gravity, but the spring action in the plunge mechanism.

If you have access to NAINA items, for a little more money I think you'd be MUCH happier with one of the Festool Precisio saws, either the CS-50 or CS-70. The CS 50 looks like it's based on the CMS base architecture, but is a purpose-built table saw, with the added functionality of a pull-push saw. Another German tool manufacturer produces a saw called the Erika which is available in North America, but with a price tag of $3,000+ it is priced squarely in the professional market, likely out of reach for the casual woodworker.

I hope this helps!  [big grin]

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

As was already mentioned, UL approval is the road block for the other modules. There are various reasons for each of them.

The goal is, of course, to make more of them available. I just don't know if or when that might happen.

Shane

 

[Darobe]

Thanks that sheds a lot of light onto things. Looks like I might have to find somebody that can get me a CS 50 then.

 

[sancho57]

The blade height adj is easy from the front, just turn the knob and raise it. As one coming from the states to europe, I find the module safe as any normal table saw.  I dont see where there is any danger in accidentally cutting your self with the blade any more then any other saw.

I have heard some ruminit (rumor intelligence) that one reason that festool doesnt release the CMS into NA is because of the ability for them to be able to keep up with the production demands. From what Ive heard they are a relatively small family owned company.

NA has such a huge population base (300million people in the USA and what 30-40 million in Canada) that I can see that as being a issue. To be able to keep up demand and still maintain a quality production line with out out sourcing the logistics would be phenomenal.

Rumor control maybe inaccuate but IMO it does ad to the situation if there is a UL issue as well. So it might be both.

 

[grbmds]

My understanding is UL issues. Specifically, the big, wide open space in the motor side of the upper blade housing. I've been told that UL is worried users will start the saw, then reach underneath to adjust something and stick their fingers into the blade housing.

I've tried the TS CMS module. Based on my experience, my opinion and advise is: Assuming you have access to NAINA items, unless you are the most casual of woodworkers, you will be unhappy with the CMS-TS, compared to a traditional table saw. The weakness lies in the fact that you are trying to adjust an upside-down handheld saw. Want to adjust the bevel? Get ready to get down on your knees, loosen the front and rear bevel knobs, try to read a relatively small, upside down bevel gauge, and then tighten the front and rear knobs. Certainly not impossible, but ponderous when trying to work at anything approaching production speed. Depth setting is a little tricky as well, since now you're not only fighting gravity, but the spring action in the plunge mechanism.

If you have access to NAINA items, for a little more money I think you'd be MUCH happier with one of the Festool Precisio saws, either the CS-50 or CS-70. The CS 50 looks like it's based on the CMS base architecture, but is a purpose-built table saw, with the added functionality of a pull-push saw. Another German tool manufacturer produces a saw called the Erika which is available in North America, but with a price tag of $3,000+ it is priced squarely in the professional market, likely out of reach for the casual woodworker.

I hope this helps!  [big grin]

I have always longed for this to be sold her also. However, with your comments (which make sense) I might be better off  in the long run with a more portable bench saw which can be made compact and moved out of the way. I find with the track saw I just don't have a great need for a table saw. I can foresee rare uses for a table saw but not many. Plus, I still have my old one. It's jut that it takes up a lot of space I could use.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I have heard some ruminit (rumor intelligence) that one reason that festool doesnt release the CMS into NA is because of the ability for them to be able to keep up with the production demands. From what Ive heard they are a relatively small family owned company.

That's not the case at all. If that were true, we wouldn't be able to offer new tools worldwide due to production capacity, nor would we be able to grow. Demand is a good problem to have and easily fixed with expansion or addition of production facilities.

It's a UL issue. That's it. Nothing more.

 

[sancho57]

I have heard some ruminit (rumor intelligence) that one reason that festool doesnt release the CMS into NA is because of the ability for them to be able to keep up with the production demands. From what Ive heard they are a relatively small family owned company.

That's not the case at all. If that were true, we wouldn't be able to offer new tools worldwide due to production capacity, nor would we be able to grow. Demand is a good problem to have and easily fixed with expansion or addition of production facilities.

It's a UL issue. That's it. Nothing more.

Like I said it was ruminit, rumor intel, thanks for clearing it up. i will tell the folks at rumor control that they are incorrect

IS this what hes talking about?

 

[Rick Christopherson]

From what Ive heard they are a relatively small family owned company.

For just an itty bitty family owned company, they sure have a big-asterisk facility!!!  [big grin] [big grin] I don't remember much from my visit there many years ago, but I do remember how big it was. If I remember correctly, they not only fabricate their own motors, but are also the main supplier of motors for several other tool manufacturers...just for example.

Some of the largest companies in the world are actually family owned.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

My understanding is UL issues. Specifically, the big, wide open space in the motor side of the upper blade housing. I've been told that UL is worried users will start the saw, then reach underneath to adjust something and stick their fingers into the blade housing.

I've tried the TS CMS module. Based on my experience, my opinion and advise is: Assuming you have access to NAINA items, unless you are the most casual of woodworkers, you will be unhappy with the CMS-TS, compared to a traditional table saw. The weakness lies in the fact that you are trying to adjust an upside-down handheld saw. Want to adjust the bevel? Get ready to get down on your knees, loosen the front and rear bevel knobs, try to read a relatively small, upside down bevel gauge, and then tighten the front and rear knobs. Certainly not impossible, but ponderous when trying to work at anything approaching production speed. Depth setting is a little tricky as well, since now you're not only fighting gravity, but the spring action in the plunge mechanism.

If you have access to NAINA items, for a little more money I think you'd be MUCH happier with one of the Festool Precisio saws, either the CS-50 or CS-70. The CS 50 looks like it's based on the CMS base architecture, but is a purpose-built table saw, with the added functionality of a pull-push saw. Another German tool manufacturer produces a saw called the Erika which is available in North America, but with a price tag of $3,000+ it is priced squarely in the professional market, likely out of reach for the casual woodworker.

I hope this helps!  [big grin]

I have always longed for this to be sold her also. However, with your comments (which make sense) I might be better off  in the long run with a more portable bench saw which can be made compact and moved out of the way. I find with the track saw I just don't have a great need for a table saw. I can foresee rare uses for a table saw but not many. Plus, I still have my old one. It's jut that it takes up a lot of space I could use.

If you want to avoid the expense on an Erika, or a black market Precisio or CMS unit, but still want a saw that works with your other Festool equipment, I suggest buying a decent quality bench top table saw that comes with a scissor stand, then cut the legs down to match your MFT table height for out feed support for both your MFT and table saw.....

 

[b_m_hart]

My understanding is UL issues. Specifically, the big, wide open space in the motor side of the upper blade housing. I've been told that UL is worried users will start the saw, then reach underneath to adjust something and stick their fingers into the blade housing.

I've tried the TS CMS module. Based on my experience, my opinion and advise is: Assuming you have access to NAINA items, unless you are the most casual of woodworkers, you will be unhappy with the CMS-TS, compared to a traditional table saw. The weakness lies in the fact that you are trying to adjust an upside-down handheld saw. Want to adjust the bevel? Get ready to get down on your knees, loosen the front and rear bevel knobs, try to read a relatively small, upside down bevel gauge, and then tighten the front and rear knobs. Certainly not impossible, but ponderous when trying to work at anything approaching production speed. Depth setting is a little tricky as well, since now you're not only fighting gravity, but the spring action in the plunge mechanism.

If you have access to NAINA items, for a little more money I think you'd be MUCH happier with one of the Festool Precisio saws, either the CS-50 or CS-70. The CS 50 looks like it's based on the CMS base architecture, but is a purpose-built table saw, with the added functionality of a pull-push saw. Another German tool manufacturer produces a saw called the Erika which is available in North America, but with a price tag of $3,000+ it is priced squarely in the professional market, likely out of reach for the casual woodworker.

I hope this helps!  [big grin]

I have always longed for this to be sold her also. However, with your comments (which make sense) I might be better off  in the long run with a more portable bench saw which can be made compact and moved out of the way. I find with the track saw I just don't have a great need for a table saw. I can foresee rare uses for a table saw but not many. Plus, I still have my old one. It's jut that it takes up a lot of space I could use.

If you want to avoid the expense on an Erika, or a black market Precisio or CMS unit, but still want a saw that works with your other Festool equipment, I suggest buying a decent quality bench top table saw that comes with a scissor stand, then cut the legs down to match your MFT table height for out feed support for both your MFT and table saw.....

Black market?  There are online retailers (well, at least one) that will ship directly to the US.  I just received a TS75 module.  I am a responsible adult with a healthy mix of respect for and fear of power tools.  The UL can bite me.  I will save MUCH valuable space getting rid of the old Bosch contractor saw

EDIT> moved reply out of quote box.

 

[semenza]

Statement from Festool.

Warning: The Festool CMS System is approved for use with only the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers in the US and Canadian markets.  It is not approved for use with the OF 2200, nor with any of the CMS modules currently available outside the US and Canadian markets (TS, Jigsaw and sanding modules).  Festool USA does not  endorse the use of these components and will not support them with spare  parts or repairs. The use of anything other than the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers and their related accessories with the CMS will void the warranty agreement on the entire system for customers within the US and Canada. Festool does not endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual.

 

[Peter Durand]

I think you folks should add this to the beginning of that message:

UL has forced us to say this......

[wink]

Cheers,
Peter

 

[b_m_hart]

I think you folks should add this to the beginning of that message:

UL has forced us to say this......

[wink]

Cheers,
Peter

nah, just Festool doing some very reasonable CYA...

 

[icdb]

which online retailer please? interested in a cs 50 for usa use, 110v.

thanks!

[/quote]

Black market?  There are online retailers (well, at least one) that will ship directly to the US.  I just received a TS75 module.  I am a responsible adult with a healthy mix of respect for and fear of power tools.  The UL can bite me.  I will save MUCH valuable space getting rid of the old Bosch contractor saw

EDIT> moved reply out of quote box.
[/quote]