CMS Router Table vs Incra table combo? I can't friggin' decide.

Toolinator

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Dec 22, 2014
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As background, I'm a hobbyist. Apprentice at best. I'm searching for a versatile router table solution for a relatively small shop (single car garage). What will I use it for? Everything. Hopefully some joinery, profiling edges, pattern cutting.

I can't decide between the Incra table combo #3 vs CMS router table. Both seem to have equal pros and cons. I need help tipping the scale one way or another. I don't need portability, I like the idea of building a router table cabinet for more storage and stability. CMS seems to have better dust collection, but the fence seems more of a pain to set up and align.

Any helpful thoughts one way or the other? Am I crazy for thinking CMS isn't the miracle table?
 
Unless you need a portable router table at a jobsite or you drank a powerful batch of festoolaid, I think the Incra is the clear winner.
 
Do you have a Festool router? The CMS is not much use without one. And if you don't have one, do you plan on buying one?

One of the advantages of a Festool router is that it lets you get by with just one router for table-based routing (CMS) and regular plunge/ fixed based routing.

Aligning the fence is rarely important. For the three applications you mentioned it isn't relevant.
 
I bought the Incra #3 late last year after doing a lot of research, including the CMS option as I already owned an OF1400 router. I finally decided that the Incra was the most versatile and was actually less money than the CMS (even including a Porter Cable 7518 motor and the Jessem Master Lift). I think you get some percent off the first purchase if you sign up for their email list (or maybe just because it's your first purchase). With the 10% off, the pricing was attractive, given all the other options on the market.

I am a hobby woodworker for quite a few years. I have only practiced to this point to get the feel of the setup and cutting dovetails, but was able to cut a set of half blind dovetails for a small box perfect on the second try (well the wood slipped so one pin/tail on one corner was not perfect).

The accuracy and ease of use are the best parts for me. The video included with the combo is a great way to get started and very complete. The book included (which also contains  the information on each template) is also very clear and easy to follow. I also bought the Projects book which has some extra information which is useful (although not really many projects I'd build). Jessem Master Lift is great and, I think, will fit almost any router with the included adapters although it is setup for the Porter Cable 7518 motor right out of the box.

The assembly and setup of the table and fence takes awhile, but it's kind of rewarding to see the whole thing take shape and you get a little better understanding of how to use the fence and its parts while assembling.

You can tell I like it, so I would say if your two choices are the CMS and Incra, I think you get more for your money with the Incra, especially if you don't already own a Festool router that will fit in the CMS (OF1400 and maybe the 1010). However, there are a lot of ways to go with router tables from making your own, buying the top/plate/lift and making your own base. I just am a big fan of the Incra positioners. They are so accurate and the work  you do is always repeatable.

After I make a set of drawers for one of my work tables, I will know more about the table's application to a more practical project.

Really what you buy all depends on what you will use it for and how often. A lot of options exist.
 
Hi!
I'm an amateur woodrat living in Europe and the advantages i see with the CMS are the following:
1. I can use all modules for the CMS, i.e. for the tracksaw, jigsaw. I do not have a lot of space in my workshop, so that's a big bonus in my book.
2. The CMS has the same height as the MFT, so i can use the MFT as an outfeed table.
3. The CMS has a high resale value.
I realize in NA you don't have all the modules, so if i lived there, i would probably have gone with Incra.
 
I have the incra after considering the CMS.  The CMS is a portable router table.
The incra positioner is a router table with built in jigs for box/dovetail and all kinds of other joints. So theres no need to buy an extra jig for doing those things.  I added some blocks and T bolts to make it attach to my mft.
 

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INCRA TABLE !

The dust collection with the Clean sweep dust box is freaking awesome! 

http://www.incra.com/product_rta_cleansweep.html

The insert rings that work best with the clean sweep box are a must.

http://www.incrementaltools.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=INC-CSMLRINGSET

Changing the bit with the Mast-R-Lift II  just looks a lot easier then changing the bit with the CMS.   

http://www.incrementaltools.com/INCRA_Mast_R_Lift_II_p/incra%20mast-r-lift%20ii.htm

I know that the CMS is a portable table.  The only benefit I can see from it is that you could fold it up and it can free up some space for you.  That's the only benefit I see in it. 

I've never used the CMS. But from looking at it while at a Woodcraft store, changing the bit seemed like a P.I.T.A.

I don't want to keep installing and uninstalling the OF1400 for table and free hand work. 

The price of the CMS is just crazy !  The whole CMS system is NOT available in the US, so that as a HUGE impact on me not owning one. 

The fact that the OF2200 can "NOT" be used in the CMS here in the states is also a negative for me. 

And did I mention the price?  And a router, OF1010 or OF1400 is not part of the price.  Maybe it's just me, but I can't understand the price tag on the CMS.

I don't like the idea of the two axis feather board on the CMS.  It looks like the arm gets in the way.

I'm sure there are more things I don't like about the CMS, but I'll save you from the rest of the list.

Save your money and buy the Incra system.  The fence on the Incra system is the best on the market, my opinion.  That's why you see guys incorporate it on the MFT/3.    [tongue]

Put on any motor only router in the lift and you'll be a happy guy.  I have the Porter Cable 7518  3-1/4hp motor only router in mine. Works like a champ.

The router table generates a lot of dust and chips.  Keep that in mind when you're thinking about dust collection.  I'll hook up my Incra to a Delta dust collector.  But sometimes if I'm doing a small project I can just hook it up to a Ridgid Shop Vac with a Vortex cyclone separator.  CT bags can fill up fast on a router table.  Especially a CTmini or midi. 

Eric
 
erock said:
INCRA TABLE !

Save your money and buy the Incra system.  The fence on the Incra system is the best on the market, my opinion.  That's why you see guys incorporate it on the MFT/3.    [tongue]

HEY!  I resemble that remark  [wink]

I am one of the "dark side" guys that like the CMS, strike that... LOVE my CMS.  I am also in the minority that have the VL (has to connect to the MFT).  I do agree that you will need to evaluate how you mostly will be using it.  When I was going through that process, I had the same thoughts.  Do I want a solid setup of red and gold that will be pretty stationary OR do I want one that is part of my Festool system and can leverage my existing components.  Mainly my MFT and OF 1400 router.

I do this as a hobby with the occasional commission for some work for my wives friends... thank you Pinterest (fists shaking to the sky).  For me, portability was about 10% of my equation, the rest was "will it meet what I hope to do" which at the time was to make some new cabinets/doors for a kitchen and a small bath project.  I had worked with Incra stuff in the past and had already planned for an LS 25 before I even bought the CMS.  Expensive option... check!  Does it do everything I throw at it... check!  Do I wish i had the modular purching options of the EU and other parts of the world outside of North America... CHECK!  [wink]

Here is my breakdown so you don't need to sort through a large # of threads (but you should becuase there are a lot of nice setups from lots of members on this forum):

~MFT/3
~CMS-VL (full kit with sliding table)
~OF Module/fence/bits and peices
~OF 1400
~Incra LS 25 (with Superfence)
~KA UG Wings (L & R to use for infeed/outfeed)
~CT 26
~Precision Dogs Precision Plate (interface between my MFT and the Incra LS)
~Some other NAINA CMS items that make this all REALLY worth while...

As you can see, each item serves a specific purpose for me and the 90% that it is all in my shop, it works great.  I have a very nice setup, that can be broken down quickly, stood up just as quick and offers me very quick and repeatable operations.  On the off chance that I need to load it up in my SUV, tote it across to a McMansion nearby, set it up in one of their open bays in their 8 car garage, do some work and pack it up just as quick without cleaning up a huge dust pile... it will be a bit slower, but I can do it.  Freehanding with the 1400 is great, ripping and cross cutting with the 55 or 75, also great.  Doing a majority of this on a movable table... really great.

You are bound to get a ton of people chime in from either side and the problem is that we are all correct... either setup is great.  It depends on what you NEED/WANT out of it.  Oh, and one other thing... forget what Eric said as he is from the wrong side of Ohio... just ask him what we did to his Indians last night.  [wink]  I kid... I kid...

Hope this is somewhat of use to you...

Cheers.  Bryan.

 
Just a follow-up to my previous post. If you are just starting out, there are other options that won't cost you even close to what the Incra system or the CMS will cost you and they will likely serve your needs for many years to come. Until this year I had a Rockler top/fence/plate and used an old Makita plunge router (30 years old). Rockler use to sell the Incra UltraLite positioner for use on their tables. I don't think they do, but you could buy a Rockler (or other top), add an Incra positioner, build the base, and I bet it would serve your needs. It worked for me for years and years. On the other  hand, if you want something that will likely last and serve your needs the rest of your life, then I vote for the Incra. It's hard for me to imagine a task you won't be able to do on the Incra table from simple rabbeting to dovetails. However, you pay for that also. Just a comment . . . I do wish I had bought the Incra system/table years ago, though, as it would have made my life easier no matter what I have made. I do not do this professionally, but do enjoy using a great tool to make something and the result I get with it.
 
Wish I could help but I'm in the same place as you. For those of you with the Incra, could you post some pics of your set-up, or link to what you are using? Thanks.

Rock
 
bkharman said:
erock said:
INCRA TABLE !

Save your money and buy the Incra system.  The fence on the Incra system is the best on the market, my opinion.  That's why you see guys incorporate it on the MFT/3.    [tongue]

...Oh, and one other thing... forget what Eric said as he is from the wrong side of Ohio... just ask him what we did to his Indians last night.  [wink]  I kid... I kid...

Cheers.  Bryan.

Hey Bryan, you've got to remember that Eric lives up here in King James' territory.  Maybe that's why he prefers the Gold one!  LOL!!

Mike A. (also from Cleveland)
 
Hi,

More input from an Incra user.

1) Doing dovetails on it is a pain.  You need to do some chisel work afterwards, and I still don't have it right.
2) I built my own dust collection box for under the table, out of 3/4" MDF.  Easy to do and much cheaper than the Incra version.  Though not so pretty.
3) You can put wheels on the Incra.  But that does not make it portable, as the CMS is.
4) If you want to do dovetails & box joints, the Incra offers far more options than does the CMS.
5) The Incra is less expensive.
6) If you are dealing with larger sized lumber, the CMS is easier to add wings & support to than is the Incra.

To me, the Incra is the better option if you want to a more flexible table environment.  The CMS is a pure production system.

All that said, I would like a CMS.  Someday......

edg
 
mike_aa said:
bkharman said:
erock said:
INCRA TABLE !

Save your money and buy the Incra system.  The fence on the Incra system is the best on the market, my opinion.  That's why you see guys incorporate it on the MFT/3.    [tongue]

...Oh, and one other thing... forget what Eric said as he is from the wrong side of Ohio... just ask him what we did to his Indians last night.  [wink]  I kid... I kid...

Cheers.  Bryan.

Hey Bryan, you've got to remember that Eric lives up here in King James' territory.  Maybe that's why he prefers the Gold one!  LOL!!

Mike A. (also from Cleveland)

LOL !  That was a good come back Mike!

I could care less about the Tribe or Cavs.  Heck, I could care less about any Cleveland sports team.  They all have terrible management.   

But lets not get off topic.  The topic is.....What router should I buy for the Incra router table.......right?    [tongue]

Eric
 
roblg3 said:
I have the incra after considering the CMS.  The CMS is a portable router table.
The incra positioner is a router table with built in jigs for box/dovetail and all kinds of other joints. So theres no need to buy an extra jig for doing those things.  I added some blocks and T bolts to make it attach to my mft.

I'm curious as to how exactly you were able to attach that router table to your MFT. It looks like a solution to a problem I may have -- mainly space. If I can manage to make the Incra table attach to my MFT, I could break it down and set it up as needed.
 
guitar_ed said:
Hi,

More input from an Incra user.

1) Doing dovetails on it is a pain.  You need to do some chisel work afterwards, and I still don't have it right.
2) I built my own dust collection box for under the table, out of 3/4" MDF.  Easy to do and much cheaper than the Incra version.  Though not so pretty.
3) You can put wheels on the Incra.  But that does not make it portable, as the CMS is.
4) If you want to do dovetails & box joints, the Incra offers far more options than does the CMS.
5) The Incra is less expensive.
6) If you are dealing with larger sized lumber, the CMS is easier to add wings & support to than is the Incra.

To me, the Incra is the better option if you want to a more flexible table environment.  The CMS is a pure production system.

All that said, I would like a CMS.  Someday......

edg

The chisel work is for through dovetails. No extra chisel work is needed for half blind. They are the easiest to do on Incra of any dovetail jig I've used. My second try was perfect just following the Incra instructions.  I bought the Jessem Clear-Cuts for the router fence for holding down longer pieces. With the wheels on the table the mobility around the shop is all I need. If you want to be able to move it from job site to job site out of the shop, then I would agree the CMS is a much better option. I feel the Incra table/fence/positioner is really a system for in the shop only. Portability is not one of its strong points.
 
You have a MFT3 and the 1400. I had a small shop initially so I went the CMS route and got the TS55 insert. I needed portability and dust collection. I also used the CMS as an extra table for infeed out feed table when cutting large pieces on the MFT3. I was also able to store it on a shelf system to make more space in the shop.

The other thing I took in account is the ability to run very long pieces of molding using the UG stand wings as it is a complete system. That being said the incra is a good system all depends on your shop layout and personal needs.
 
Tough decision. The decider for me for not buying the CMS is that I run some large pieces across my router table and wanted a large work surface and maximal stability. If I could get the CMS dust collection and sliding table features combined with the large work surface and great fence, I'd buy the product today.
 
I'm completely happy with my Incra setup.  I read mixed reviews of their stands (specifically, that the caster locks stick out too far), so I went with the (excellent) Kreg stand with their casters.
 
[attachthumb=2][attachthumb=3][attachthumb=1]Not too good doing pictures but here is my Incra table. Top, Cleansweep, Router Plate, Magnetic Inserts to extract dust , Bosch 1617 EVS, and my old Incra Jig Ultra. Works great.
 

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jplemons...
    I hesitate to show this cobbled photo because it looks terrible, but this is what I tried to see if it would work...it did and was not redesigned or "finalized" and may be changed.....
here ya go[attachimg=1]
 

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