Comment on Festools & Improvements you may want to see for them.
- Thread starter nickao
- Start date
sorry to hear your problems..... i have not had your problems,,,,the only problems i have were small and only required a little fiddling, though i did have to get the larger hose to get the most out of my 75 saw....i would like to have know about that earlier.
Per Swenson
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 875
Ok,
I am commin.
6 of 10 complaints are solved with a phone call.
Lets take the other 4,
The hose issue. I can't help you there, but you have a boom arm, what's it doing on the floor?
Systainer/sortainer latch's, apply wax or silicone spray. Problem solved.
You are not happy with the vacs. Ok, you are not happy.
And the manuals.... yup, they suck. But that is why you are here, no?
Do I have complaints?..sure
Stoopid stuff though, I never had any precise results with the angle unit for the guide rail.
I wish they gave a extra strip with each and every guide rail.
And the design of the dust collection of the 1400 router should be rethought,
but they did it on the 2200 so expect a new model soon.
I will say this though, many of the issues I previously had were born of
my know it all attitude. That's right, who cares if the manuals are awful, I never read them anyway.
It took me sometime to learn how to think of it as a system. Or, to consider how well these
tools are thought out. I learn something new every day from tools Ive been running for some time.
Per
I am commin.
6 of 10 complaints are solved with a phone call.
Lets take the other 4,
The hose issue. I can't help you there, but you have a boom arm, what's it doing on the floor?
Systainer/sortainer latch's, apply wax or silicone spray. Problem solved.
You are not happy with the vacs. Ok, you are not happy.
And the manuals.... yup, they suck. But that is why you are here, no?
Do I have complaints?..sure
Stoopid stuff though, I never had any precise results with the angle unit for the guide rail.
I wish they gave a extra strip with each and every guide rail.
And the design of the dust collection of the 1400 router should be rethought,
but they did it on the 2200 so expect a new model soon.
I will say this though, many of the issues I previously had were born of
my know it all attitude. That's right, who cares if the manuals are awful, I never read them anyway.
It took me sometime to learn how to think of it as a system. Or, to consider how well these
tools are thought out. I learn something new every day from tools Ive been running for some time.
Per
Per Swenson
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 875
I guess things are complicated, Nickao.
See this here,[attachimg=#]
Per
See this here,[attachimg=#]
Per
The TS75 saw cuts the bevel farther out from the strip than the 90 deg cut. So when cuttn the 45 after the 90 it leaves a flat. I fixed it myself with no help from fesfool. I tried calling the service dept with this issue and they could not help. I have to say they have been great with everything else but on this issue they ignored me. Total false advertising here.
Jesse Cloud
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,746
Per Swenson said:
OK, I think I have the answer to this. No real cost to anybody. Festool starts a "Trade in your extra plug-it cords" program. I rummage through my junk systainer and send my half a dozen unused plug-its to Festool in return for some guide rail strips, vac bags, or something like that.
;DPer Swenson
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 875
nickao said:
And this is unnecessary
Per
Jesse Cloud
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,746
Oh, also, next time Festool fine tunes the OF1400, how about a better solution to the problem of keeping the router level with the guide rail, that plastic outrigger thingy is lame. Dave Dubbya solved the problem with an auxiliary base plate and some longer screws, how about making that a product.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 759
nickao said:
I have no interest in ganging up on you. I generally don't have time to respond to whining threads and I do think this is one. Your statement above is erroneous. Festool will work to get it right but not by reading fallacious complaints on a forum. This isn't their forum; it is ours. We are lucky that the powers that be at Festool do read many of these threads. We do see that product improvement is very much a part of their charter. Phoning their tech support to get answers to your problem is a part of that system. No call; no report one way or another.
Daviddubya
Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
- Messages
- 704
First, I agree with what John Lucas said. A negative thread like this will surely cause negative responses to the originator. Are there some things that Festool can do better? Of course. But I'd call those ideas enhancements, not complaints.
Second, the only complaint I can recall was a systainer that was broken in shipping. Festool sent me a new one with one phone call. I have been buying and using Festool products for several years. I put the router fix that Jesse Cloud mentioned in the enhancement category, not a complaint.
Second, the only complaint I can recall was a systainer that was broken in shipping. Festool sent me a new one with one phone call. I have been buying and using Festool products for several years. I put the router fix that Jesse Cloud mentioned in the enhancement category, not a complaint.
i am sorry that you have difficulties......i agree that at the price point there should not be any problems.i will say no company is perfect, in my opinion it is important how they handle the problems.....in this case i have no complaints.......as for examples, i received bent rail which they replaced no question asked, other things were in the line of missing screws, and bits ,that kind of thing, no excuses but they did send me the parts pront
, i did have to have the switch on my drill replaced.they did a compete service and replacement of the switch, this was after 1.5 years of hard use.they mailed the drill to my house in a couple of days,can't beat that. i am not saying it is ok but they always have fixed the problem,,,,i never got mumble mouth or go stuff it ,so i feel ok.
, i did have to have the switch on my drill replaced.they did a compete service and replacement of the switch, this was after 1.5 years of hard use.they mailed the drill to my house in a couple of days,can't beat that. i am not saying it is ok but they always have fixed the problem,,,,i never got mumble mouth or go stuff it ,so i feel ok.o, yea the out rigger is weak but it does work.....being an engineer i would say it is a suboptimal solution, I also think the hole cutter for the jigsaw is also weeeek, ok i should not have to have modified my angle attachment for the rail to stop it from moving.,,,,,ok a couple of gripes. :-\
Steve Jones
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 405
Nickao,
I think you have a reasonable idea, but have bumped into some knee jerk reactions to your thread - some folks who have spent a lot of money on a brand of tools is going to fight you if you claim there are some flaws (or maybe room for improvement). They will fight without thinking because they feel they have to defend that investment. in my case I use my tools to make my living, a surprising amount of my recently purchased tools turn out to be Festools because they really are better than the alternatives in most cases.
The fine line we probably could all follow is that these are truly great tools, and that nothing is perfect and never will be.
For one example of an ongoing problem that probably should get some attention: Has anybody on the list truly received a new Domino that was aligned correctly, specifically the transparent guide on the base? I got the impression from this forum from the number of comments over the last few months that probably everyone who brought one and actually tried to use it found it off. also the circular location pins never seem to have been aligned from the factory (mine certainly weren't).
I think you have a reasonable idea, but have bumped into some knee jerk reactions to your thread - some folks who have spent a lot of money on a brand of tools is going to fight you if you claim there are some flaws (or maybe room for improvement). They will fight without thinking because they feel they have to defend that investment. in my case I use my tools to make my living, a surprising amount of my recently purchased tools turn out to be Festools because they really are better than the alternatives in most cases.
The fine line we probably could all follow is that these are truly great tools, and that nothing is perfect and never will be.
For one example of an ongoing problem that probably should get some attention: Has anybody on the list truly received a new Domino that was aligned correctly, specifically the transparent guide on the base? I got the impression from this forum from the number of comments over the last few months that probably everyone who brought one and actually tried to use it found it off. also the circular location pins never seem to have been aligned from the factory (mine certainly weren't).
Nick,
I think I know where you're coming from. I too have some problems/complaints/etc. with Festool, as I do with any complany I buy product from. There is NO perfect tool or product. Even the goods or services WE sell.
If I may... perhaps give the forum members (me included) time to formulate some ideas and thoughts. I personally started to think through my experience with FESTOOL after I first read your post. I'm confident that the knee-jerk response you are expecting will be tempered after this holiday weekend passes and we all get back to thinking about our shops, tools, jobs, etc.
Just a thought. Dan
To all, Please remember our Vets on Monday.
I think I know where you're coming from. I too have some problems/complaints/etc. with Festool, as I do with any complany I buy product from. There is NO perfect tool or product. Even the goods or services WE sell.
If I may... perhaps give the forum members (me included) time to formulate some ideas and thoughts. I personally started to think through my experience with FESTOOL after I first read your post. I'm confident that the knee-jerk response you are expecting will be tempered after this holiday weekend passes and we all get back to thinking about our shops, tools, jobs, etc.
Just a thought. Dan
To all, Please remember our Vets on Monday.
i have read a great deal on this thread and to say that there is no negative content is not even close to right. just look at the complaints about saw alignment or the domino alignment. there is the section on wishes that is all about needed improvements. i think that thicker skins are needed in this discussion, it has been made clear that people have different ways of interfacing with their tools and different expectations. good points have been raised on all sides,,,,i think that the diversity of responses show that this is not a homogeneous group, this is good even when people disagree.
Steve Jones
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 405
Nickao,
In both cases (on mine anyway) it was purely an alignment problem, I just can't believe that either of those parts (the transparent plastic gauge and the locating pins) have enough mass to have shifted during shipping.
I've heard the story about Festool having a test block from every domino that leave QC and that they store some vast rack of little blocks of wood with holes in them and corresponding serial #s - sorry guys
1: it does not sound likely
2: why would they do that unless they receive a massive overload of complaints about domino alignment so heavy they feel they have to prove their efforts
3: wouldn't it be "faster, easier, and smarter" to have ONE jig that is actually accurate to set these machines up correctly?
Underused, I got mine aligned too, I didn't need to modify anything, but it took me an hour and fiddling around with a feeler gauge in order to get it perfect (I was using the domino to make 5 piece door frames and needed perfect alignment.)
In both cases (on mine anyway) it was purely an alignment problem, I just can't believe that either of those parts (the transparent plastic gauge and the locating pins) have enough mass to have shifted during shipping.
I've heard the story about Festool having a test block from every domino that leave QC and that they store some vast rack of little blocks of wood with holes in them and corresponding serial #s - sorry guys
1: it does not sound likely
2: why would they do that unless they receive a massive overload of complaints about domino alignment so heavy they feel they have to prove their efforts
3: wouldn't it be "faster, easier, and smarter" to have ONE jig that is actually accurate to set these machines up correctly?
Underused, I got mine aligned too, I didn't need to modify anything, but it took me an hour and fiddling around with a feeler gauge in order to get it perfect (I was using the domino to make 5 piece door frames and needed perfect alignment.)
Daviddubya
Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
- Messages
- 704
Nick - I want to highlight a few of your own statements that led me to say this thread is negative. I did not say it earlier, but this thread is also NOT constructive, IMHO.
"Everything else on this forum is about the good stuff."
That's simply not true. There are lots of threads and posts about issues with Festool.
"Instead of making the manuals better Festool seems to link us to FOG members who have made good manuals. This is the best deal a company has ever gotten. Free manuals. How about investing in a technical writer that is a wood worker who uses the tools and making good, no great, manuals to begin with."
I have always assumed the manuals that people like Chris Christopherson and Jerry Work write are commissioned by Festool USA. I think Festool USA is making an effort to get the manuals improved, not simply relying on people to volunteer to write improved manuals.
"...if this crap all happened in two months..."
You might have toned that down a bit.
"I should not have to make a call..."
This sounds like whining to me. If you have an issue, give the company an opportunity to fix it.
"If the consensus is that I am off base please tell me..."
OK - you're off base.
ps - The Angle Unit is a weak design, but there has already been lots of discussion about that.
"Everything else on this forum is about the good stuff."
That's simply not true. There are lots of threads and posts about issues with Festool.
"Instead of making the manuals better Festool seems to link us to FOG members who have made good manuals. This is the best deal a company has ever gotten. Free manuals. How about investing in a technical writer that is a wood worker who uses the tools and making good, no great, manuals to begin with."
I have always assumed the manuals that people like Chris Christopherson and Jerry Work write are commissioned by Festool USA. I think Festool USA is making an effort to get the manuals improved, not simply relying on people to volunteer to write improved manuals.
"...if this crap all happened in two months..."
You might have toned that down a bit.
"I should not have to make a call..."
This sounds like whining to me. If you have an issue, give the company an opportunity to fix it.
"If the consensus is that I am off base please tell me..."
OK - you're off base.
ps - The Angle Unit is a weak design, but there has already been lots of discussion about that.
Michael Kellough
Member
Eiji Fuller said:
Eiji, if I remember correctly you and Mirko figured out that a shim needed to be added to your TS 75 saws between the saw mounts and the shoe (base plate). Do you remember the thickness of that shim?
Hi Nick,
I tend to stay out of these type discussions, but here's my nickels worth.
I understand (I think) what you're going for. It would be helpful for a new member to be able to see a list of issues with each tool. It may also be helpful to Festool.
However, If a new user stumbled onto a thread of issues or a search engine indexed it.
It is likely that it could also be a negative thing.
If a new user came here and saw a list of only the bad things are they likely to look further for the good things and purchase a Festool?
If only praise for the tools are found is it believable?
Same goes for only negatives. But people tend to take the negative as truth faster than positives. ???
Like the old saying goes;
"Do something right, if your lucky a customer well tell one or two others"
"Do something wrong & they will tell everyone they know"
I'm not saying that all Festools are perfect, although I haven't had any issues. But unless this could be put in some sort of table like "XX tool Plus's" / "xx tool Minuses" all in one place I'm not sure how helpful it will be.
Like you, I do wish there was some organized repository of the benefits and drawbacks of each tool, I'm just not sure how to go about it. It can be very time consuming searching forums for information, there is a lot of "discussion" mixed in with the facts
.
And if it does come to be, will it be believable to a stranger who comes across it?
If you can build some sort of database with the good and bad it would be a great asset in the reference section.
Sorry, I have no Idea how you would go about that.
Best,
Scott W.
I tend to stay out of these type discussions, but here's my nickels worth.
I understand (I think) what you're going for. It would be helpful for a new member to be able to see a list of issues with each tool. It may also be helpful to Festool.
However, If a new user stumbled onto a thread of issues or a search engine indexed it.
It is likely that it could also be a negative thing.
If a new user came here and saw a list of only the bad things are they likely to look further for the good things and purchase a Festool?
If only praise for the tools are found is it believable?
Same goes for only negatives. But people tend to take the negative as truth faster than positives. ???
Like the old saying goes;
"Do something right, if your lucky a customer well tell one or two others"
"Do something wrong & they will tell everyone they know"
I'm not saying that all Festools are perfect, although I haven't had any issues. But unless this could be put in some sort of table like "XX tool Plus's" / "xx tool Minuses" all in one place I'm not sure how helpful it will be.
Like you, I do wish there was some organized repository of the benefits and drawbacks of each tool, I'm just not sure how to go about it. It can be very time consuming searching forums for information, there is a lot of "discussion" mixed in with the facts
.And if it does come to be, will it be believable to a stranger who comes across it?
If you can build some sort of database with the good and bad it would be a great asset in the reference section.
Sorry, I have no Idea how you would go about that.
Best,
Scott W.