Concrete Countertops

[Eric]

I was thinking of putting in concrete countertops in my kitchen when I remodel it.  Just wanted to know if anybody here has experience with them and what are the pro's & con's?

Thanks,
Eric

 

[mastercabman]

it's very heavy!!!!!  i don't see much concrete counter tops.i do cabinets everyday,new and remodeling.

 

[Brent b]

Eric, are you planning on fabricating these yourself, and if not what sq ft cost range are you willing to spend?  Concrete can be as expensive as granite.
Brent

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Eric,
Back in April 2006, I posted a similar question on the old Yahoo forum.  I got eight responses from members.  I'm reposting my original question here, to get the knowledge on this from the old forum into the new one.  Members who posted responses in that old Yahoo discussion might consider copying their statements into this discussion.

Here is the text of my April 2006 posting:

Good Morning,
A little while ago, I wrote about using Festool tools to construct
solid-surface countertops for bathroom vanities. Well, I did some
research, and had some offline communication with Patrick Austermann,
and as a result I fell in love with the idea of doing concrete
countertops. So has my wife! She now wants concrete countertops in
the kitchen as well as the bathrooms! So now it's up to me to do it
right...

Of course, my question is about using Festool sanders for this job. I
have the Rotex RO125, the Rotex RO150, the ETS150/5, and the RAS 115
rotary sander.

Has anyone had experience using Festool sanders to take a concrete
surface through all the stages of grinding and polishing so it's ready
for use?

My main concerns are:
What steps should I follow to get the best results?
How do I do the initial grinding so the surface is smooth?
What compounds and accessories are needed for a polished surface?
Are there special techniques for polishing concrete?

Please jump in with ideas, advice, or information I should be aware of.

I'm thinking this is something other members could benefit from.

Thanks everyone,
Matthew

 

[Eric]

Eric, are you planning on fabricating these yourself, and if not what sq ft cost range are you willing to spend?  Concrete can be as expensive as granite.
Brent

I was thinking about trying to do it myself.

Eric

 

[Bob Childress]

Concrete counter tops have become quite popular. But it is not as simple as it may at first appear to fabricate them. Suggest doing a lot research before trying it.

 

[Eric]

Concrete counter tops have become quite popular. But it is not as simple as it may at first appear to fabricate them. Suggest doing a lot research before trying it.

I've been searching the internet for information but it is hard to find objective information because either someone if totally for or against.  That is why I've posted the question here.

I plan on making a test countertop before I would attempt to real thing.

Eric

 

[Gary Nichols]

Eric,

I'm pretty sure I saw an article in Fine Homebuilding, but I haven't found it yet. Was a year or so ago. Showed how it was done.... but just like anything masonry, a lot of work, so I never paid much attention.

Gary

 

[Dan Lyke]

I've leafed through a couple of Fu Tung Cheng's books at the bookstore, and it's seemed like something that takes attention to detail but isn't that hard. Just a lot of labor. I'd at least buy his book on countertop construction and read it before I attempted a countertop.

 

[Overtime]

I found Cheng's site some time ago - concreteexchange.com
http://www.concreteexchange.com/shop_front.jsp
 
Get the book or video first and you will be either pumped up to do it or seriously reconsidering the plan.

  I have the CD and have a kit to do a  56" X 22" X  2 to 2 1/2" thick bathroom vanity top. It is a lot of work , and I have not even started. My master bath remod is going slow. But I do intend to make one. I have seen one up close and I was not impressed. The color was red - rust and overall drab in appearance. This was because the top was not polished to a high gloss.

I spent the $ on the diamond grinder abrasives to take it to a "high Gloss" and that is when they look much better, I think.
My vanity top will be in three segments totaling 56 x 22 - Left , Right and Center with the center section lower to accommodate a surface mount sink. So I will need to make three relatively small molds for a cubic ft total of less than 2. That's the plan so far any way : I think for me, the scope of this project is doable.

  Things to consider : Space to mix (mixer) and pour sloppy mess -  strong flat work surface to place very heavy molds (4xs and 2xs) - Construct molds (3/4 melamine)

My most costly items have been the grinder disks and I estimate my small project to cost 4 to $500.00 total. Cost of SQ footage will go down with larger area. But labor will go up.  A Silestone top same dimensions $1150.00 installed. Not a big fan of granite or corian.
 

 

[Brent b]

Eric, I have limited experience with concrete, no big projects.  Cheng's book is great, he also sells a product line if you like the look he achieves.  There are a huge amount of variables in this type of work and experimentation is highly recommended.  I don't know if you have much experience with concrete but it can be quite stressful.  Much of the time is in the form work and if something goes wrong in the pour you can waste a lot of time so it's beneficial to know how to handle concrete; it's set time based on ambient temperature, and having a escape plan if something goes wrong, are things to consider.  Also, because the minimum thickness for concrete countertops gives it a lot of weight  you'll want to consider the construction of the cabinets and the floor structure underneath that.  Cabinet shear be resolved by adding 1/2" ply to the backs.  If the cabinets are in the middle of wide floor span, such as an island, the dead load can cause deflection.  I'm assuming that your thinking of prefab construction.  Two other methods are pour in place and cementious coating, each with benefits and drawbacks.  The prefab allows you to work with concrete's plastic nature more creatively and also allows more flexibility and options in the finishing phase. Unless you coat it with a heavy duty sealent it will remain porous and reactive to the environment; what some people will characterize as a patina others will call stains.  Undoubtedly it will require maintenance over it's lifecycle.  Concrete is one of mankinds great discoveries, the intersection of stone and plastic, but it's beauty can be hardwon and require skill born of experience.
Brent

 

[Eric]

Thank you for all the great information.  I think I going to stay with my original idea and tile the countertop with 2' square granite tile.  Concrete countertops looked cool but they seem like to much work to make and maintain.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[Dan Clark]

Eric,

For tiling, you should check out this forum:http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1.  Great place.

Dan.

 

[Bob Childress]

What Dan said--John Bridge is the FOG of tiling forums.  ;D

 

[Eric]

Thanks for the information on John Bridge's forum.  I've been browsing it for the last couple of months. 

It has great information.

Eric

 

[LaserGecko]

Be wary of anyone in concrete selling "custom" products. Unless they own a chemical or processing plant, they're not using anything you can't get yourself without the 500% markup of having a batch plant mix their "custom" products. Also, if it's not cement, aggregate, or reinforcement, you will weaken the mix.

For example, when I finally get around to shooting Kool Deck on that bare spot of concrete where my Kamados sit, I could either buy a bag of "deck mix" for $75 from the concrete supply company or mix it myself with stuff from Home Depot for about $20.

Call the good folks athttp://www.jpjtechnologies.com and see if they have any thoughts on countertops. I thought some of the ads mentioned them, but I can't find it right now. I bought the whole DVD course and it is literally the Holy Grail of faux rock...with NO product sales.