waho6o9
Member
"Flipping a house on the side while keeping your job is a great option. "
+1 for that sage advice and all that stated the same.
+1 for that sage advice and all that stated the same.
Consider scrapping the cubicle life..
- Thread starter skids
- Start date
And then there's another option. Don't do construction, make wooden things and sell them. Not furniture and certainly not wooden kids ride on toys. Just wooden things. That might be worth a try.
We all know that most wooden things are mass produced by wage slaves. But those things can become a point of departure. Say there's a cool wooden bike rack thingy made by busy little Chinese hands. But it's not quite cool enough. You get with people and customize it make 50 or 60 custom ones, each a little different than the last.
Pinterest may open this kind of thing up. Who knows what might develop. A beautiful custom wooden ballet exercise bar for little grammar school ballerinas. Do you know how many little ballerinas there are? Do you know what might happen if the mom's of all those little ballerinas decide that the world can't keep spinning if little Kaylee or little Emma doesn't have her own custom, custom mind you, exercise bar. This is hormonal of course and hormonal things are truly random and absolutely unpredictable but if you are in the right place at the right time. I'm just sayin.
Another option might be concrete things. A good deal of carpentry skill and creativity goes in to form making for custom decorative concrete things. I've done a few concrete countertops, precast and cast in place. It's diverting.
We all know that most wooden things are mass produced by wage slaves. But those things can become a point of departure. Say there's a cool wooden bike rack thingy made by busy little Chinese hands. But it's not quite cool enough. You get with people and customize it make 50 or 60 custom ones, each a little different than the last.
Pinterest may open this kind of thing up. Who knows what might develop. A beautiful custom wooden ballet exercise bar for little grammar school ballerinas. Do you know how many little ballerinas there are? Do you know what might happen if the mom's of all those little ballerinas decide that the world can't keep spinning if little Kaylee or little Emma doesn't have her own custom, custom mind you, exercise bar. This is hormonal of course and hormonal things are truly random and absolutely unpredictable but if you are in the right place at the right time. I'm just sayin.
Another option might be concrete things. A good deal of carpentry skill and creativity goes in to form making for custom decorative concrete things. I've done a few concrete countertops, precast and cast in place. It's diverting.
Samo
Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
- 657
This is a great book about being a self employed contractor. I have the first addition.
http://www.amazon.com/Running-Successful-Construction-Company-Pros/dp/1561585300
Don't be put off by the generic cover Tauton press has put on the revised copy.
Best of luck! [big grin]
http://www.amazon.com/Running-Successful-Construction-Company-Pros/dp/1561585300
Don't be put off by the generic cover Tauton press has put on the revised copy.
Best of luck! [big grin]
PA floor guy
Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2012
- Messages
- 290
I encouraged skids earlier in this post. But after ready some of warners posts. I agree with him as well. I came into business with the fast food mentality. " the customer is always right". And I still try and hold this value, however like Warner said, people are brutal nasty scumbag creatures. I refinish floors, so I see a lot of different customers, some are great people that I wanna go the extra mile for and DO. But then there are some people that will keep you up at night with the way they act. You will truly see how people are. Somedays are great, and somedays are worse than any cubby day could ever conspire to be. I encourage you to not let this craving go by, but to do things the way that are best for your situation. Try and get a severance from your current company, or even if your a senior person at your current job, maybe they will buy you out, in order to let a younger cheaper body do your job. All things to consider.....
HowardH
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,573
Dane said:
Anyone who is self-employed (or not for that matter) who depends on their ability to work to provide for their family should have disability insurance, period. Ask yourself a question, can you afford to take a 3 year vacation? If so, great. If not, call your insurance broker. Your ability to earn a living is the most valuable asset you will ever own and to not protect that asset is pure lunacy.
I had been a carpenter for 12 years and got a government job managing construction projects . It was not satisfying and was mostly office work. I did this for 6 years and developed many stress related problems. I did shop work as a side job and it took off. I left the high paying secure job and went into business for myself at age 39!
Many a good thing has been said about this subject but I most like building things and looking back at the end of the day and seeing something that I built instead of just seeing a pile of papers (or a computer screen) that seemed to have no purpose. It is tough being self-employed but very fulfilling. I am still in touch with the folks I used to work with and they are close to retirement but seem like zombies because of the work they do. The downside for me is this work has been hard on my body and I have no retirement or date to due so.
Many a good thing has been said about this subject but I most like building things and looking back at the end of the day and seeing something that I built instead of just seeing a pile of papers (or a computer screen) that seemed to have no purpose. It is tough being self-employed but very fulfilling. I am still in touch with the folks I used to work with and they are close to retirement but seem like zombies because of the work they do. The downside for me is this work has been hard on my body and I have no retirement or date to due so.
I'm a commodities trader (18 years) turned woodworker, dropped the overhead and turned capenter/gc. Started the last venture a year ago at 52. Its never too late unless your dead. My advice is, if you do it, and I believe you should if its not just a hankering, give it your all and give it time.
Even though trading was an office job, my income was never guaranteed nor was I working towards a pension. I was phased out by computers, best thing that ever happened to me. Like what waltwood said,"nothing like looking back at the end of the day and seeing something that I built"
Even though trading was an office job, my income was never guaranteed nor was I working towards a pension. I was phased out by computers, best thing that ever happened to me. Like what waltwood said,"nothing like looking back at the end of the day and seeing something that I built"
I've started typing replies and killed them so many times. I didn't want to come across as an arse.
Are you too old? No, but you are behind the eight ball due to the fact that you haven't had the bump and grind experiences of the industry for pay before now. You will be entering the field as many others who may have been laid off from their jobs and have watched a lot of reality TV.
I started my company at age 40 with $500 after injuring my finger working for someone else. Luckily I had a background and also the vehicle and experience and contacts. I didn't do a business plan, but I did a realistic budget and income projections. I focused on a niche in the industry that allowed for low risk, quick paying business.
Fast forward 12 years. I am still in the same niche. Wish I wasn't. Other than attending Festool related events I haven't had a vacation. I have fallen off of a roof and landed on my head - no insurance (had to worry about putting food on the table). I was lucky and walked away only missing two days.
If you do this please do it because you because you love using your hands - not because you want to make a million. Don't do it because you are excited about the notion of owning your own company.
Honestly, after these 12 years, and owning and operating TWO companies for the last 10 (yes, I am a glutton for punishment, I would love to work for a corporation. I just haven't found one that wants someone like me who has a varied corporate and small business background who isn't a specialist at one thing. I probably never will. I would love to bust my and have to produce but have some normalcy and benefits.
Please don't take this post / rant as being negative. The industry can provide an income and self satisfaction. Just don't walk into this with rose colored glasses. You have much at risk. If you decide to go forward, I will be here to offer encouragement and help in any way. There will be dozens of others also.
Peter
Are you too old? No, but you are behind the eight ball due to the fact that you haven't had the bump and grind experiences of the industry for pay before now. You will be entering the field as many others who may have been laid off from their jobs and have watched a lot of reality TV.
I started my company at age 40 with $500 after injuring my finger working for someone else. Luckily I had a background and also the vehicle and experience and contacts. I didn't do a business plan, but I did a realistic budget and income projections. I focused on a niche in the industry that allowed for low risk, quick paying business.
Fast forward 12 years. I am still in the same niche. Wish I wasn't. Other than attending Festool related events I haven't had a vacation. I have fallen off of a roof and landed on my head - no insurance (had to worry about putting food on the table). I was lucky and walked away only missing two days.
If you do this please do it because you because you love using your hands - not because you want to make a million. Don't do it because you are excited about the notion of owning your own company.
Honestly, after these 12 years, and owning and operating TWO companies for the last 10 (yes, I am a glutton for punishment, I would love to work for a corporation. I just haven't found one that wants someone like me who has a varied corporate and small business background who isn't a specialist at one thing. I probably never will. I would love to bust my and have to produce but have some normalcy and benefits.
Please don't take this post / rant as being negative. The industry can provide an income and self satisfaction. Just don't walk into this with rose colored glasses. You have much at risk. If you decide to go forward, I will be here to offer encouragement and help in any way. There will be dozens of others also.
Peter
Thanks everyone...Taking it all in here, weighing my decision process based on all this excellent advice. This weekend I worked with my buddy the finish-maven, did some recessed panel wainscot, confirmed more of what I already knew-love the work. I may not move quick, but I get all the concepts..Obviously this decision is more complex than just moonlighting doing a few jobs here or there so I will take more time with this decision.
I made the change about 10 years ago. I was in IT doing really well but I was disillusioned. I wish I knew then what I know now. It doesn't mater how awful your boss is or your colleagues, if you're working for someone else it's easy. That's not to say there aren't extremely difficult jobs out there. It's more about the comparison between the buck stopping with someone else and when it becomes all down to you.
Nothing can prepare you for being your own boss and I don't think any amount of good advice will discourage people if they are determined to take the plunge. Most people have to learn the hard way. I had no idea how hard it would be and the most common misconception for me and and many others I've met over the years is the concept of increased freedom by starting your own business. It just doesn't work that way. Theoretically you can take time out whenever you like but the reality is so different. You may get loads of time but that can be because you have spells of no work and that never feels like time off. You then evolve and hopefully become a victim of your own success. That's when it get's hard as the treadmill can seem far worse than anything employment threw at you. It can seem relentless at times.
One of the worst things for me is cash flow. What employed people don't realise is the self-employment double whammy with cash flow. We all have one thing in common and that is we may struggle to feed ourselves and our families when times are hard. The employed person can even get close to a self-employed persons life by having just enough money to get to work. We've all had to scrape the bottom of the barrel at times to fill up the car or van. Things can get tight for all of us. What they will not comprehend is that when they finally get to their desk all they have to do is work. What if your boss actually said to you when you arrived at work that before you could earn your $100 for the day you had to give him $200 first. He tells you that you will be reimbursed at the end of the day or month. That's the hard part, we often need to buy materials or pay other contractors before we get paid. It's hard to explain to someone the sheer frustration of having work and at times not being able to afford to do it.
The one thing above anything else that would encourage me to go back to employment is worry or anxiety. It hasn't stopped since that day I became self-employed. It's part of the territory and probably a good defence mechanism to protect you from the potential pitfalls of self-employment but it can be so counter productive when it comes to enjoying life.
Anyway all the above is negative and from reading the thread most other people who run their own businesses tend to think along similar lines. There is however one massive positive that can go with self-employment that I haven't seen mentioned. You can have massive job security that no employed person can have. When times are hard employed people can actually be worse off in my opinion. The axe can fall at anytime regardless of how good you are at your job. Decisions can be made by people in Ivory Towers and your whole world can end. You could be the absolute best or at least very good at what you do, it won't make any difference. It may well not be any use in securing another job as the problem is likely to be that whole sector is struggling and no-one is hiring. This is where self-employment really scores and comes into it's own in my opinion. Provided you are very good at what you do and most importantly even better at telling people about it you will always have work. Self-employment may produce lean times but in a recession you won't have to live with the fear that most employed people do of losing it all no matter how hard they try. That is the beauty of having your own business, you are ultimately in control of your own destiny. You pay a high price for it but on balance I think it's worth it.
Nothing can prepare you for being your own boss and I don't think any amount of good advice will discourage people if they are determined to take the plunge. Most people have to learn the hard way. I had no idea how hard it would be and the most common misconception for me and and many others I've met over the years is the concept of increased freedom by starting your own business. It just doesn't work that way. Theoretically you can take time out whenever you like but the reality is so different. You may get loads of time but that can be because you have spells of no work and that never feels like time off. You then evolve and hopefully become a victim of your own success. That's when it get's hard as the treadmill can seem far worse than anything employment threw at you. It can seem relentless at times.
One of the worst things for me is cash flow. What employed people don't realise is the self-employment double whammy with cash flow. We all have one thing in common and that is we may struggle to feed ourselves and our families when times are hard. The employed person can even get close to a self-employed persons life by having just enough money to get to work. We've all had to scrape the bottom of the barrel at times to fill up the car or van. Things can get tight for all of us. What they will not comprehend is that when they finally get to their desk all they have to do is work. What if your boss actually said to you when you arrived at work that before you could earn your $100 for the day you had to give him $200 first. He tells you that you will be reimbursed at the end of the day or month. That's the hard part, we often need to buy materials or pay other contractors before we get paid. It's hard to explain to someone the sheer frustration of having work and at times not being able to afford to do it.
The one thing above anything else that would encourage me to go back to employment is worry or anxiety. It hasn't stopped since that day I became self-employed. It's part of the territory and probably a good defence mechanism to protect you from the potential pitfalls of self-employment but it can be so counter productive when it comes to enjoying life.
Anyway all the above is negative and from reading the thread most other people who run their own businesses tend to think along similar lines. There is however one massive positive that can go with self-employment that I haven't seen mentioned. You can have massive job security that no employed person can have. When times are hard employed people can actually be worse off in my opinion. The axe can fall at anytime regardless of how good you are at your job. Decisions can be made by people in Ivory Towers and your whole world can end. You could be the absolute best or at least very good at what you do, it won't make any difference. It may well not be any use in securing another job as the problem is likely to be that whole sector is struggling and no-one is hiring. This is where self-employment really scores and comes into it's own in my opinion. Provided you are very good at what you do and most importantly even better at telling people about it you will always have work. Self-employment may produce lean times but in a recession you won't have to live with the fear that most employed people do of losing it all no matter how hard they try. That is the beauty of having your own business, you are ultimately in control of your own destiny. You pay a high price for it but on balance I think it's worth it.
sancho57
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
- Messages
- 7,089
Skids,
Another option I just thought about after reading some more of the post is,
You can continue with your current job, do side work, build your client base and experiance level by doing side jobs.
Word of mouth is the biggest advertiser for any business.
Its also the hardest to get in motion.
There are some folks here who have given advice in various threads on this site and other sites about how to get the word of mouth in motion.
One guy who frequentl post here just moved to a different state and now seems to be rolling in work. HE states over and over about getting business cards and hand them out to just about everyone he meets (for example).
Also take plenty of photos of your COMPLETED work fto build a portfolio .
Honestly, Im about where you are.
Getting ready to retire and turn a page in my life.
To young to do nothing so looking at ways to keep me busy.
Ive been doing woodworking and light construction/ home improvement / Handyman work for mainly friends and close contacts on the side for the last 18 years. The last 5 years have gone to up grading my equipment/tooling/knowledge base.
Once I hang up my spurs on my job, I will be moving out of state and picking some of the folks here and other sites brains about relocating and getting a business going in a tough economy.
The city I plan on relocating has been hit hard by the current recession. But I can see it turning around soon. There are lots of homes that have been foreclosed on and boomers seem to be retiring there for the cheap real estate low taxes etc
They will be needing to upgrade the fore closed homes they bought. Plus with the housing market there/ economy in the birth throws of begining to turn around house flipping wouldnt be out of the question either.
But this is all speculation on my part.
Taking a chance, stepping out on faith putting things on the line taking risks is basically what a businessman does. Especially when you have a family to support on top of everything else.
I thought I would comment and give a different perspective from my previous post.
Whatever you decide, best of luck to you, Im sure you will do the right thing which will benefit you and your family.
Ron
Another option I just thought about after reading some more of the post is,
You can continue with your current job, do side work, build your client base and experiance level by doing side jobs.
Word of mouth is the biggest advertiser for any business.
Its also the hardest to get in motion.
There are some folks here who have given advice in various threads on this site and other sites about how to get the word of mouth in motion.
One guy who frequentl post here just moved to a different state and now seems to be rolling in work. HE states over and over about getting business cards and hand them out to just about everyone he meets (for example).
Also take plenty of photos of your COMPLETED work fto build a portfolio .
Honestly, Im about where you are.
Getting ready to retire and turn a page in my life.
To young to do nothing so looking at ways to keep me busy.
Ive been doing woodworking and light construction/ home improvement / Handyman work for mainly friends and close contacts on the side for the last 18 years. The last 5 years have gone to up grading my equipment/tooling/knowledge base.
Once I hang up my spurs on my job, I will be moving out of state and picking some of the folks here and other sites brains about relocating and getting a business going in a tough economy.
The city I plan on relocating has been hit hard by the current recession. But I can see it turning around soon. There are lots of homes that have been foreclosed on and boomers seem to be retiring there for the cheap real estate low taxes etc
They will be needing to upgrade the fore closed homes they bought. Plus with the housing market there/ economy in the birth throws of begining to turn around house flipping wouldnt be out of the question either.
But this is all speculation on my part.
Taking a chance, stepping out on faith putting things on the line taking risks is basically what a businessman does. Especially when you have a family to support on top of everything else.
I thought I would comment and give a different perspective from my previous post.
Whatever you decide, best of luck to you, Im sure you will do the right thing which will benefit you and your family.
Ron
Samo said:
Love Taunton, have had a subscription and most of the publications for many years. Learned alot from them. Just read some of this book on Amazon and it seems excellent for my needs and I will be ordering a copy.. Thank you!
First problem I face, as this book points out is making sure I have all the trade knowledge I need. Right now that is a somewhat missing piece for me. If I had to (conservatively) quantify it, I probably own about 50% of the knowledge I need, in terms of raw trade skills and job site experience. I have the skills to do certain things, but can't quite cover the entire landscape of possibilities I would run into for a customer-without having to self-teach. Which essentially means I would be bogged down with learning on any sizable jobs, putting myself and clients at risk. Although I suppose I could be more of an artisan type carpenter and just stick with smaller jobs at first...I recognize I need to put more effort into looking for a someone who would be willing to teach me. Not easy to convince anyone it's worth it when they hear my reasoning. Can't seem to convince my friend to do it even working free, and he is the one I would to emulate. He runs the smaller, more low volume company (although he's always working) that would be great environment to learn in.
HowardH
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,573
I've been self-employed for over 8 years and have always lived by this motto: "there's a fine line between self-employment and un-employment, depending on whether or not you made a sale that day." I had been in the insurance biz for a long time before I went independent so my income doesn't fluctuate too much because of residual income but the same rules applied early on when compared to contracting. That is, you gotta market yourself, and then do it some more. The stress level will go down somewhat once you have enough happy clients who can refer their friends but don't ever stop the marketing process. Another thing, and this is important, you have to be properly capitalized meaning you have a marketing and tool budget, etc. and have enough in the bank to live for a significant amount of time without depending on your business for your daily survival. Most businesses fail due to a lack of capitalization meaning you run out of money before you positive cash flow enough to be successful. Bazillions of restaurants have failed because of this. I was fortunate enough when I left my job that I have a spouse who does well so that allowed me the luxury of time to get my business going. As others have said, being self-employed sounds like an idyllic situation but when you add in the cost of now having to cover health insurance on your own (could be over a $1000/mon), pay both sides of FICA, Medicare and FUTA, it could be a recipe for financial disaster so don't even think about jumping in unless you have done your homework.
Sparktrician
Member
Howard made a good point about doing your homework. You would also do well to make contact with a local chapter of SCORE (Senior Corps of Retired Executives). They provide some great mentoring and there should be members with expertise in your intended line of work who can offer years of perspective and a solid dose of reality.
CarolinaNomad
Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2010
- Messages
- 307
I changed from Professional Civil Engineer into Custom Home Builder. And have enjoyed doing it ever since. But it changed me as well. I work non-stop. I'm either designing, building or online learning. Constantly learning. I forgot to mention paperwork. Contracts! Contracts need to be written in great detail yet covers your ass due to poor construction by others.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned trying to get the last remaining 10 or 20% of the contract. This can be a job in itself.
Have you thought about taking on weekend work? Or scheduling your vacation time with a remodel job.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned trying to get the last remaining 10 or 20% of the contract. This can be a job in itself.
Have you thought about taking on weekend work? Or scheduling your vacation time with a remodel job.
