contractor and client

pixelated

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CLIENT – How much will it cost to do this job?
CONTRACTOR - $2,800 dollars.

CLIENT – That’s too expensive for this job!
CONTRACTOR – How much do you think it should cost?

CLIENT – $800 max! It’s a simple job!
CONTRACTOR – I can’t do the job for so little.

CLIENT – People in your line of work wants to make a huge profit!
CONTRACTOR – I’m sorry you feel this way. Why don’t you do the job?

CLIENT – But, but, I don’t know how to do any of that.
CONTRACTOR – For $900, I can teach you everything you need to know to do the job. You can then use $800 to do the job, and you’re still saving $1,100. Also, you will obtain all the knowledge and the experience for the next time you need to do this job.

CLIENT – Deal!
CONTRACTOR – Great! To start, you need to buy tools. You will need a chipping hammer, a nail gun, a laser, a drill, a mixer machine, PPE, and some other things.

CLIENT – But, I don’t have any of those tools and I can’t buy all that for just one job!
CONTRACTOR – Ok. I can rent you my tools for another $300. You’re still saving $800.

CLIENT – That’s cutting my savings, but I will rent your tools.
CONTRACTOR – Perfect! I’ll be back Saturday and we can start.

CLIENT – Wait! I can’t Saturday. I only have time today.
CONTRACTOR – I’m sorry, I only teach others on Saturdays. I have to prioritize my time and my tools needs to be in other jobs I have during the week.

CLIENT – Ok then. I will sacrifice my family’s plans on Saturday.
CONTRACTOR – Right, me too! Oh, I forgot. If you’re going to do the job yourself, you need to buy the materials. There’s a high demand nowadays, so your best bet is to get a truck and be at the hardware store by 6am before other contractors get there.

CLIENT – AT SIX IN THE MORNING? On Saturday? That’s too early for me. I don’t even have a truck!
CONTRACTOR – I guess you’ll have to rent one. By the way, do you have some helpers to help you load the truck?

CLIENT – You know what? I’ve been thinking. Probably is better for you to do the job. It’s better to pay you to do the job right and not having to go through all that hassle.
CONTRACTOR – Good thinking. Sign here and let me get to work.

This is the truth.

People are not just paying for a job, they are paying for knowledge, experience, tools, time, family sacrifices, and other things you bring to the table.
Don’t let others dictate your worth.
~Unknown Author
 
How true!

I used to hang an awful lot of doors, and unfortunately using the expensive door lock jig sets and the Festool tracksaw was such a massive time saver it made the job look too easy. I charged a fairly low rate, but I reckon on 99% of the jobs, without fail, they'd say "seeing as you're here can you replace the back door with the old front door?"

I'd say no problem, I can do that at a reduced rate as I'm already here, and the response was almost always "but I've already paid you!".
 
usernumber1 said:
did this happen? sounds made up

Absolutely this happens, I've seen similar on many occasions over the years. Another common one is they know the cost of the materials, and baulk at the total cost, thinking it will be a 2 minute job so labour should be bugger all.

Taking on small residential jobs can often be a special kind of hell not too dissimilar from doing end user support in an IT dept!
 
Also:

Contractor: I'm finished with your job and the price is $450

Client: $450???!! , but it only took you 3 hours!

Contractor: It took me 25 years to be able to do it in 3 hours
 
of course something similar happens. it happens in every industry known to man. the value of work and expertise is always questioned.

but this specific dialogue sounds completely dreamed up. you're going to teach the client? please
this "CONTRACTOR" has some pretty thin skin to be writing this fiction

EDIT: sorry it comes out wrong, I need to words this better. I think everyone understands some clients need educating but to come and paint them as some idiots in a fictional dialog that never happened just annoys me and makes the contractor look whiny.

oh at the end 'everybody clapped'. there's a reddit subforum dedicated to these fictional stories -https://www.reddit.com/r/thatHappened/

luvmytoolz said:
usernumber1 said:
did this happen? sounds made up

Absolutely this happens, I've seen similar on many occasions over the years. Another common one is they know the cost of the materials, and baulk at the total cost, thinking it will be a 2 minute job so labour should be bugger all.

Taking on small residential jobs can often be a special kind of heck not too dissimilar from doing end user support in an IT dept!
 
It's definitely a "made up" story to illustrate a very valid point. This kind of thing happens all the time, pretty much in all trades. A pro can make a job look a lot easier than it really is, and that's only part of it. He also has to have all of the tools required to make it happen.

This concept is also at least partly responsible for my lifetime of learning so many different things. Early on in my youth, I could not afford to pay for some of the things I needed, so I figured it out myself. It started as a DIY homeowner who happened to be a machinist and auto enthusiast. I learned to work on cars and later became a truck mechanic, learned to weld in that job. That morphed into being a fabricator in a body shop. Somewhere along the line getting a CDL, which is what got me hired at the cabinet shop as the delivery driver. Not long into that, the DIY homeowner skills got me moved from driver to working in the assembly area. A few years of that and I moved up to the top of the food chain as the head of the custom projects department.
When I was a truck mechanic, there were always people wanting me to do stuff for them, but I just wasn't equipped to do most of it at home. I just wasn't interested in doing it the "hard way"

There was a similar "story" years ago that had something to do with a client wanting an itemized bill for some "simple job" that seemed too expensive. The bottom line ended up being something like "drilling the hole....$5" "Knowing where to drill the hole...$95.

Personally, I have always undercharged most people because of my early experience with affordability, but I am very selective about who qualifies for that. I really don't do client work, just friends and family. Some insist on paying more and that makes up for the ones who can't.
 
In my industry, it's usually "I need you to come after 6"

Last available appointment is 2-5.

" But I work during the day!"

Yeah.  So do I. 
 
Crazyraceguy said:
There was a similar "story" years ago that had something to do with a client wanting an itemized bill for some "simple job" that seemed too expensive. The bottom line ended up being something like "drilling the hole....$5" "Knowing where to drill the hole...$95.

This reminds me of an event that happened at one of our sites in Germany during a conference.  One of the attendees had a Mercedes rental and accidentally locked the keys in the trunk as he was gathering the his conference material.  We called the rental company, but the earliest they could send a replacement key was the next day.  They recommended we call the local Mercedes dealer and have them send a technician to drill the trunk lid, open the trunk and repair the hole, and the cost would not be covered by the rental company.

When the technician arrived and was setting up his drill rig, he paused and asked if we knew where in the trunk the keys were.  The attendee pointed to the right rear corner of the trunk.  The technician walked to his van and returned with a large hammer and started wailing on the right rear tail light until he had smashed a large hole in it. We had backed up because we thought he was not stable, but then he put his arm in the hole and fished around for a moment before pulling out the keys.  He smiled and told us the cost of drilling and repairing the trunk was €650, but the cost of replacing the tail light was €125, and they had plenty in stock.  If the repair was done by the dealer, he wouldn't charge for the road assistance call.
 
This happens to musicians all the time. “$300 to play 15 minutes of music for a wedding? That’s too much” Well, there’s usually an advanced degree in music, hours of practice, and rehearsal. Not to mention thousands of dollars in musical instruments. You can pay Jimmy, who’s in high school and “pretty good”, but you’re going to get what you pay for.
 
Years ago when I was the Australian Clearvue distributor I had a call that amused me somewhat. The caller wanted to know the price and when told he said that it was too expensive and he would wait until I held a sale. When informed that I absolutely did not hold sales he got rather irate and told me I should hold a sale so that he could buy it cheaper and then he told me he would import a cyclone from the US himself! Somes thicker than others!
 
Last fall I swung by my insurance agent’s office which he moved in before finishing the facelift he did to his new office building he bought.
He needed the inside doors casing and window treatment done. He did most of the work on this redo. He was also getting tired of it I think.
He asked me if I wanted /care to finish the doors and windows.
I told him I can do it at $x/hr.
He said he needed a bid.
I kinda figured it out estimating so much time per unit time rate and I came up with about $1200. He said he’ll give me $1000 for the job. Five minutes later he’s adding work on. Knowing him I’m sure he thinking it’s included.
I turn him down.
So he did the work himself.
I swung by his office a few weeks ago.
90* corners that did match up. Oh well.
I thought he wanted quality work
 
In a past life I was a dentist. I only ever had one complaint about the fee I charged. Not from the patient but his wife. The basis of the complaint was that I had charged a lot of money for extracting a tooth which had only taken a few minutes and my hourly rate of pay was therefore obscene. I patiently explained that the fee was set by government but that for future appointments I could take longer so that she would feel that the treatment was better value for money. Not surprisingly her husband declined the offer

If you think your tools are expensive you should look at the cost of medical equipment. Mr last drill system was nearly £11,000
 
I told him I can do it at $x/hr.
He said he needed a bid.

You told him the price per hour.  With that, and since he had some ability, he could pay by the hour and spend up to his "budget" then finish the rest himself.  Let you do the stuff that the customers see, and then he could try his hands in the backrooms. That way he could add jobs on if you both agreed.  By asking for a bid, you now have to factor in any problems you may not see, so a bid price always has to have some pad factored in it. 

Probably good to walk away. 
 
Yes. Over the three years as a Client of his I thought he was cheap but this confirmed it.
Last summer he was thinking of renting out his ten parking places on cruise night in town
I found new home and car insurance with a different broker that was cheaper with a better policy.
Still have a the shop and contractors insurance with him currently.
 
lot of it come from clients who go to IKEA etc think. Id like one of those but not in that color and maybe a little larger and real wood.
Then when they contact a carp get the bid say I can get it at IKEA for $XX. Then when  Ive told them well go to IKEA. They say but i want it larger and a different color......

Another issue Ive found is people who are retired, build things out of their garage PT.
They are happy just doing work and dont charge what the job is really worth.
Working cheap just to get the work does hurt the trade and tradesmen.
 
jobsworth said:
Another issue Ive found is people who are retired, build things out of their garage PT.
They are happy just doing work and dont charge what the job is really worth.
Working cheap just to get the work does hurt the trade and tradesmen.

There will always be a market for retired people who build for the price of materials or for $10/hr or whatever they charge.  If that's what they need to charge to keep food on the table or to feel like they're giving back to society, I certainly can't fault them.  Most of the time those jobs are for friends & family or for charitable organizations.  I don't think people are going to a retiree to save a few grand on a 90x30 8/4 live edge maple slab dining table, but I may be wrong?

And that same thing exists in every industry.  The "I can shoot your wedding photos for $100", "I can DJ your wedding for $100", etc. people will always be out there.  I used to be that guy, and DJed friend and family's weddings for pretty cheap or free, and charged nominal rates for the two or three other gigs I ever did in my time.  I had neither the time nor inclination to become anything more than a "upper-end hobbyist" with DJing, and let my potential clients know that they're getting what they pay for.  I was basically a personality-free, no-talk live jukebox.

I don't think it had any effect on the local industry's prices, although there were plenty of other "$300 for 6 hour" DJs running amok at the time, and probably still are.

I live in the second largest metro area in the state, but it's still very, very blue collar.  Penny pinchers are everywhere around here.  It actually makes it harder to find a contractor because half of them seem to assume that I want to hear whatever lowest offer they can put forth or think they can get away with only quoting time and materials for everything.  I finally found a contractor whose work I trust and whose prices I'm comfortable with.
 
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