Cope and stick cabinet doors

[greenvillager]

Has anyone used dominos to reinforce a cope and stick joint?  I am making a pair of TDL glass cabinet doors and wondered if this is a good idea.  Thanks for replying.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

It wont hurt.  The glue joint of the cope is very strong.  I have never had any doors fails at the cope connection.  When I build big exterior doors I will dowell the copes.  Hope this helps.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

It's described in the Domino Supplemental Manual on page 16. Just make sure you increase your plunge depth to account for the overlap of the cope and stick profiles. This should typically be about 5mm.

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[greenvillager]

Thanks for your replies. That is exactly what I was imagining but could not visualize it. I am thinking to cut the mortises for the dominos before the shaping of the cope and stick?

 

[Grasshopper]

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/domino-for-craftsman-style-cabinet-doorsdrawers/msg374993/#msg374993

See picture down the thread for another example.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I am thinking to cut the mortises for the dominos before the shaping of the cope and stick?

You can do them either way. It is easier for marking if you do them first. But conversely, you may get some tearout in your cope profile at the mortice location (not a big deal, though).

 

[jacko9]

Prior to owning a Domino joiner, I use slip tenons with my cope and stick cabinet doors.  I don't think that it was absolutely necessary but, I had some very large doors and once I was set up I made them all the same.

Jack

 

[John Beauchamp]

Cope and stick has been around for a long time and is a proven method. With todays glues it's a near perfect joint. I guarantee my doors for life (my life) I've never had a failure. I wouldn't even consider using a domino for this joint, it would just add time and expense with no real need. I love the domino but will save it for where it's really needed.

 

[Nick C]

In my opinion this is not a good idea. Look at the cost/benefit: The cost is more time, and more things to go wrong at glue-up. The benefit is nothing. The joint is strong enough, by a large margin, without the reinforcement.

 

[mike_aa]

The OP indicated these doors will have glass.  IMHO, I would not rely on cope and stick only for this type of application.  After, all, window sashes had mortices to strengthen them.

Mike A.

 

[greenvillager]

That's what I was thinking when I first posted this thread. I've also made Cope and stick doors for years without an issue but these are tall doors with glass panels. I am not looking for extra work. I just want to be comfortable that the doors will stay square. The doors measure 15 x 52. They are a pair making a round top for a China cabinet. They wil be true divided lite with individual panes of glass. 8 panes in each.

 

[Billedis]

I have built 60" glass doors in the cope and stick style and have had absolutely no problems.  I use 13/16 stock for rails and stiles.  Bill

 

[unityroad]

Hi, I have always used a dowels, now the domino to secure the cope joints on wood sash windows I make. It does not add to much time. Wood sash windows (old ones ) always had a tennon in them.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

The OP indicated these doors will have glass.  IMHO, I would not rely on cope and stick only for this type of application.  After, all, window sashes had mortices to strengthen them.

Mike A.

Window sashes had through M&T joinery with pins so you could take them apart and repair them.  Plus the glue was lacking for exterior use back in that time period.

The majority of all modern windows are simply cope and stick (if they even resemble a traditional sash) no complicated check rails either.

 

[mike_aa]

I'm not sure what "modern" era you are referring to, but the brand new wood sash I bought 10-15 years ago had mortices. 

As far as being pinned together, pins may have been used in windows at one time or another by someone, but not likely in the last century or so.  Certainly, the windows I've worked on from the early 20th century didn't have them, but did have mortices.

Mike A.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I'm not sure what "modern" era you are referring to, but the brand new wood sash I bought 10-15 years ago had mortices. 

As far as being pinned together, pins may have been used in windows at one time or another by someone, but not likely in the last century or so.  Certainly, the windows I've worked on from the early 20th century didn't have them, but did have mortices.

Mike A.

My 1890's farm house and about 75% of everyother sash I have had apart or made to match was pegged, draw bored if you will.  Knock the pins out, slide the stiles out of the bottom rail and the dovetailed check rail.

I have yet to see a modern window made anywhere close to a traditional sash, marvin, andersen, pella.

 

[Rob-GB]

I'm not sure what "modern" era you are referring to, but the brand new wood sash I bought 10-15 years ago had mortices. 

As far as being pinned together, pins may have been used in windows at one time or another by someone, but not likely in the last century or so.  Certainly, the windows I've worked on from the early 20th century didn't have them, but did have mortices.

Mike A.

My 1890's farm house and about 75% of everyother sash I have had apart or made to match was pegged, draw bored if you will.  Knock the pins out, slide the stiles out of the bottom rail and the dovetailed check rail.

I have yet to see a modern window made anywhere close to a traditional sash, marvin, andersen, pella.

The pegged/draw bored sashes must be an American thing.
All of the ones I have seen or worked on/replaced have been glued and wedged tenons with the exception of some meeting rails that are dovetailed but those sashes have no horns or joggles which were introduced as the glass got better made and larger/heavier pieces could be used.
Cope and stick joints are great for small furniture doors but not what I would want to have or supply for items that are heavier or will see heavy usage, I would and do Domino mine these days= peace of mind.

Rob.

 

[jools]

All the Victorian and earlier sash windows in my area have no glue pins or dowels in them. They are through m & t with wedges. Put a screw in the wedge and draw it out with a hammer and they just knock apart. The mutton bars are coped in with a small tenon but no glue or pins. Pins glues and dowels are added over the years to try and tighten the joints without removing the sash. It makes repairing them easy with any individual piece being replaceable. What always amazes me is the 5mm x 100mm piece of pine that separates the sash weights hanging from the top of the box. Still straight and true as the day it went in. Modern pine is a banana in days. The quality of the wood was a lot different then, slower grown and a lot older. I'm convinced some of the modern stuff had leaves on it 2 weeks before its on the merchans shelf!