CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?

[AlexThePalex]

Thanks Alex. Can anyone please tell me the relationship of Mafell, Festool and Protool?

It's complicated.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I would love more Germans speaking english in videos though

But why? It is horrible...

- Well, yes and no. A lot of my natives are the same, so with other Scandinavians. But who cares, you’ll only extend your audience. No need to know all the technical terms, I think most understand 99% anyhow, given that there’s also a live video to support.

the way they use these little plastic brackets to secure the sliding table.

The plastic thingies are just to hold some nuts in position, looks OK to me. Also as of my experience with the CMS-TS slider (which looks basically identical)... these don't have to carry load.

- It just seems as a slight afterthought, that’s all. What’s positive, is that they adapted the V profile and use of the same sliding table as CS /CMS. Well done.
I’m considering this saw myself, so I’m not put off by any means. A Saw Stop cabinet saw would be really nice, but I’m afraid it would dominate the space I would have (And it would have to be ordered and shipped from the US, at a cost [blink]). So, the flow, flexibility and cross compatibility that the Festool’s system offers is very attractive. And it makes the TKS 80 fit in very nicely indeed.

And not seen here, the “support legs” when using extension tables, fiddly.

In the official Festool video they seem to work OK, also some additional uses:
=2135

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

This saw will be for my own personal use, and not for the company.
Anyway, it’s on hold right now, as my wife needed many Kitchenaid upgrades, and a good chunk of the money went on that.
I have the itch again now, but still struggling to accept the value for money thing, or lack of it 

Ask your wive if she likes you with all your fingers ?

Saw Stop Blender?  Saw Stop Stand Mixer,  there are future markets here.

[big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

 

[shu]

[member=5277]Alex[/member] , [member=5467]Bert Vanderveen[/member] If Mafell is totally independent to Festool, why would Festool help to repair a piece of Mafell equipment purchased oversea?  [blink]

 

[AlexThePalex]

[member=5277]Alex[/member] , [member=5467]Bert Vanderveen[/member] If Mafell is totally independent to Festool, why would Festool help to repair a piece of Mafell equipment purchased oversea?  [blink]

Mafell would not. My comment was towards Festool repairing Festool items from abroad. I thought we were talking about Festool. Maybe I missed something.  [huh]

 

[shu]

[member=5277]Alex[/member] , [member=5467]Bert Vanderveen[/member] If Mafell is totally independent to Festool, why would Festool help to repair a piece of Mafell equipment purchased oversea?  [blink]

Mafell would not. My comment was towards Festool repairing Festool items from abroad. I thought we were talking about Festool. Maybe I missed something.  [huh]

I see. I misunderstood you. I will buy from local supplier if I go for Festool.

One more question, is it an issue that a table saw doesn’t have the slots for sliding jigs?

 

[AlexThePalex]

One more question, is it an issue that a table saw doesn’t have the slots for sliding jigs?

Not for me. I can make everything I want.

Most cuts don't require jigs. Only special stuff, I guess. And for a creative mind, there are still so many ways to make jigs for a Festool saw.

 

[shu]

One more question, is it an issue that a table saw doesn’t have the slots for sliding jigs?

Not for me. I can make everything I want.

Most cuts don't require jigs. Only special stuff, I guess. And for a creative mind, there are still so many ways to make jigs for a Festool saw.

I believe so. To be more precise, did you mean making jigs that doesn’t need the slots, or use the accessories?

 

[AlexThePalex]

To be more precise, did you mean making jigs that doesn’t need the slots, or use the accessories?

I mean any kind of jig. The only limit there is on making jigs is your imagination.

 

[shu]

Well, can I just go though my options again?

Needs:

- Good mobility
- Not daily based using, but when been used, the saw needs to be easy to setup and accurate
- Versatile - framing + joinery
- I don't have a mitre saw

Therefore options for me:

Top: Mafell Erica 85
        Pros: it ticks all boxes
        Cons: I can't afford it, unless I move from Australia to Europe, which is unlikely to happen. I can't afford it, not only the initial cost is ridiculous here in Australia, but the limited local technical support and parts supply.

Second: CS 50 + HK 85
            Pros:These two, plus my TS 55 and HKC 55, should cover 98% of my needs. So I don't need to invest a mitre saw. The CS50 is small enough for mobility and HK 85 has the cutting depth and grove cutting options.
            Cons: where is Sawstop I initially looked for?

Third: TKS 80 + KS 120
          Pros: safest option so far.
          Cons: mobility is limited; more expensive than Second option

Do I have any other options?

 

[bertv]

I guess it is on (at least in Europe): The TKS 80 is in EKAT, in all its glory, including the accessories.

Because Festool uses a very consistent parts numbering, one is able to see what has been (re)used from older models of saws, like the Precisio 70. Eg the LA (Langsanschlag – fence) has only three parts with 8 digit numbers (all staring with 10 — the TKS 80’s number is 10163010; that 10 is a certain giveaway), that differ from the LA70: the profile (as can be seen in images that looks like a phenol cover) and the clamps that hold it in place at both ends.

Very interesting to do a comparison.

BTW Another German-language YT just dropped with some nice insights:

 

[Gregor]

BTW Another German-language YT

After having seen the official advertorial (or whatever it may be called these days by martketing) with Frank... I think I can skip the influencer ones and wait for the real, independant reviews.

 

[hallam]

The Sawstop patents are expiring. Since Gass originally wanted to license the patents and only made a table saw of his own as a last resort, it is not at all surprising he changed his business model.

Nor is it surprising that Festool is one of the first manufacturers to add this capability. Buying business is a clever way to get ahead. it is pretty clear that within five years, this tech is going to be required on every tabe saw by the insurers.

I am selling my Unisaw to get the CS80 as soon as it is available. My only real problem with the limited cutting width on the sliding table. 3" rip at 90degrees and 2 1/4" at 45 degrees is enough for me.

 

[Svar]

The Sawstop patents are expiring. Since Gass originally wanted to license the patents and only made a table saw of his own as a last resort, it is not at all surprising he changed his business model.
Nor is it surprising that Festool is one of the first manufacturers to add this capability. Buying business is a clever way to get ahead. it is pretty clear that within five years, this tech is going to be required on every tabe saw by the insurers.

Is Bosch Reaxx available in Europe? After the infringement lawsuit from SawStop they ceased sales in the US, but it is still available in Canada. Bosch technology seems to be as good if not better. Being a European company it seem strange they have not introduced their technology on the home market.

 

[shu]

This guys has done a bueatiful homemade pull saw with TS55=PLF5gRLR7P127FsHEwHF4jmI_3oqFA1btm&index=11

 

[AlexThePalex]

That's mirock, a member of this board. He can make anything he wants, and he wants to make a lot. What I don't understand is that he's still just doing YouTube videos and doesn't have 50 factories producing his designs by now.

 

[jeh]

The Sawstop patents are expiring. Since Gass originally wanted to license the patents and only made a table saw of his own as a last resort, it is not at all surprising he changed his business model.

Nor is it surprising that Festool is one of the first manufacturers to add this capability. Buying business is a clever way to get ahead. it is pretty clear that within five years, this tech is going to be required on every tabe saw by the insurers.

I am selling my Unisaw to get the CS80 as soon as it is available. My only real problem with the limited cutting width on the sliding table. 3" rip at 90degrees and 2 1/4" at 45 degrees is enough for me.

'

Unisaw to CS70 seems like an incredible sacrifice. Why not just buy the equivalent SawStop unit (ICS or PCS) and have more than the CS80 will ever give you.

 

[shu]

What I don't understand is that he's still just doing YouTube videos and doesn't have 50 factories producing his designs by now.

That's probably the beauty of the whole thing - They are the only ones that's been made.

 

[six-point socket II]

The Sawstop patents are expiring. Since Gass originally wanted to license the patents and only made a table saw of his own as a last resort, it is not at all surprising he changed his business model.
Nor is it surprising that Festool is one of the first manufacturers to add this capability. Buying business is a clever way to get ahead. it is pretty clear that within five years, this tech is going to be required on every tabe saw by the insurers.

Is Bosch Reaxx available in Europe? After the infringement lawsuit from SawStop they ceased sales in the US, but it is still available in Canada. Bosch technology seems to be as good if not better. Being a European company it seem strange they have not introduced their technology on the home market.

Nope. Not available in Europe - in fact, except for a couple of demonstrations/marketing samples - it was never introduced. Word on the street is Bosch lost "the case" completely and entirely up to the point that machines were destroyed.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[AlexThePalex]

What I don't understand is that he's still just doing YouTube videos and doesn't have 50 factories producing his designs by now.

That's probably the beauty of the whole thing - They are the only ones that's been made.

I don't see the beauty in that. He should exploit his ingenuity better. Unused potential is such a waste.