CT-22 Dust collection problem

[MWSS]

The following comment is from Peter Halle forum member:  Personally I have a problem with buying a tool and then using it for a short duration prior to returning it.  That tool can't be sold again as new and some manufacture's - like Festool - don't sell reconditioned tools.  That practice adds to the costs for the tools that we buy.

Peter Halle Moderator:  Whether or not the OP could buy and return would be determined by what country that poster lives in.  We assume by the post that he lives in the US - but that might not be so.  Thanks to a new feature installed for us new moderators by Shane yesterday, I believe that the poster is in the US.  If he was outside the US, I don't believe he would have the 30 day return policy.

Please update your profiles and at least post the country you live in.  Answers to questions will vary based on where you live.

Now back to your regularly scheduled posting...

Peter

Thanks Pete, My thoughts exactly! That would be completely UNETHICAL to buy one just so that I could ship mine off and then return it "USED". Some people!

 

[MWSS]

I'm going to suggest something off the wall and I don't want to offend anyone.  Just trying to help because it has happened to me.  Turn the CT on.  Try to disconnect the hose.  Do you feel resistance?  If you do, there is something that is partially clogging the hose.  If not, ignore this post.

Thank you for your patience.

Peter

My old hose, the one that came with it would get clogged all the time. It was next to impossible to pull of the vacuum while the vacuum was running. Thats also one of the reasons why I bought a new hose. Now I'm wondering if that has attributed to my problem. What if the vacuum was under extreme loads for a long time?  Could that have worn the motor out? What I mean, is , say for an example; I have a CT22. Brand new bag. Hose clogs up though from small chunks of corian. It still allows for air to come through, but at a reduced rate, in turn, the motor is now under a higher load. Now, say that I've had this "bad habit" of leaving my hoses clogged, could this lead to a weakened motor? Since I put a brand new hose on it, the vacuum works great as the pores in the bag aren't clogged, but as the pores in the bag start to clog, then the resistance starts to go up, and since the resistance is going up on a "weakened" motor, the motor starts to act just like as if the hose was partly blocked.

Any ideas to this therory? Or is this just completely insane?

 

[peter halle]

I can not speak to that. But what I can mention primarily for those who don't have a CT yet is that one of the differences of the Festool dust collectors as well as some other brands versus the lessor priced shop vacuums is the fact that the cooling of the motor is not accomplished entirely by the flow thru the hose.  It has a separate cooling air flow.  Keeps the motor cooler under load and adverse conditions at least.  Reduces the likelihood of burning up a motor.

Peter

 

[Brice Burrell]

I can not speak to that. But what I can mention primarily for those who don't have a CT yet is that one of the differences of the Festool dust collectors as well as some other brands versus the lessor priced shop vacuums is the fact that the cooling of the motor is not accomplished entirely by the flow thru the hose.  It has a separate cooling air flow.  Keeps the motor cooler under load and adverse conditions at least.  Reduces the likelihood of burning up a motor.

Peter

Peter, virtually all vac motors have cooling fans. I believe it was Fein that promoted a cooling fan as something special, when it really isn't.

Also, when you restrict air flow or block it entirely, that racing of the motor your hearing isn't the vac under increased load, it from having no load. The normal sound of the vac is the motor working hard, under load, the motor runs much faster when the load is removed. 

 

[peter halle]

Brice,

Thank you for the clarification.  I stand corrected.  I have burnt up several cheaper vacuums but for some reason I don't have that fear for my CT-22.

Peter

 

[greg mann]

I can not speak to that. But what I can mention primarily for those who don't have a CT yet is that one of the differences of the Festool dust collectors as well as some other brands versus the lessor priced shop vacuums is the fact that the cooling of the motor is not accomplished entirely by the flow thru the hose.  It has a separate cooling air flow.  Keeps the motor cooler under load and adverse conditions at least.  Reduces the likelihood of burning up a motor.

Peter

Peter, virtually all vac motors have cooling fans. I believe it was Fein that promoted a cooling fan as something special, when it really isn't.

Also, when you restrict air flow or block it entirely, that racing of the motor your hearing isn't the vac under increased load, it from having no load. The normal sound of the vac is the motor working hard, under load, the motor runs much faster when the load is removed. 

Brice,

I am not sure I agree with this. When you block the flow I think you certainly increase the load. Leave it blocked long enough and it will shutdown (At least Festools will because they have overheat protection). If it were under no load there would be no reason to overheat. I think the sound change under restriction is actually the motor running slower but using more amperage. Your second sentence contradicts the first one. What you say in the first sentence is true for impellar style dust collectors, like cyclones. We are in complete agreement regarding your second sentence.

To clarify what Peter was saying: In some cases the cooling fan IS the fan that actually creates the suction, and the airflow, through a hose. This air is then directed around the motor on it's exit from the machine. If the hose is blocked or restricted this is not so good because that is exactly when you need more airflow because you are creating more heat. Plus, this air is dirty. Festool and other higher end units have separate cooling fans and separate airflow pathways. HTH.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

I have just taken a CT MIDI and done an experiment with a power/current meter.

With a supply at 235 Volts (I'm in the UK!), the machine set to full suction (speed control turned fully clockwise to the hare icon), a nearly empty bag, and an unrestricted 3m long 27mm dia hose (ie no attachments), the machine drew 5.01 Amps

If I put my hand over the nozzle, the current draw reduced to 3.93 Amps!

When I turned the speed control fully anti-clockwise to the tortoise icon and did the same, the machine drew 2.81 Amps with an unrestricted nozzle and 2.37 Amps with a blocked nozzle.

Just thought I'd add some figures to the discussion! Sorry I couldn't try it with a CT22.
.
Forrest

 

[greg mann]

Amazing, Forrest. I guess I am out to lunch. I have had my C22 shut down when the hose was restricted and it made perfect sense to me at the time. That seems to fly in the face of less amp draw. The plot thickens.

On another note, I want to compement you on the input you are putting in as a moderator. Your posts have always been full of useful information and definative for the issue at hand. I felt it hardly possible you could do any better but since becoming a moderator you have really outdone yourself. Great work. That goes for you too, Peter. You efforts have re-established the ambiance this forum had at its best.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Amazing, Forrest. I guess I am out to lunch. I have had my C22 shut down when the hose was restricted and it made perfect sense to me at the time. That seems to fly in the face of less amp draw. The plot thickens......

Hey Greg, I might be premature in saying this but here goes, Ha, I told you so! ;D It's not everyday I can get the better of Greg Mann; I'm marking it down on my calendar. Of course, Rick or someone will jump in and prove me wrong.

I hope everyone knows I just having some fun here, no disrespect intended. 

.....On another note, I want to compement you on the input you are putting in as a moderator. Your posts have always been full of useful information and definative for the issue at hand. I felt it hardly possible you could do any better but since becoming a moderator you have really outdone yourself. Great work. That goes for you too, Peter. You efforts have re-established the ambiance this forum had at its best.

I couldn't agree more, great work guys!

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Amazing, Forrest. I guess I am out to lunch. I have had my C22 shut down when the hose was restricted and it made perfect sense to me at the time. That seems to fly in the face of less amp draw. The plot thickens.

The CT22 certainly has a thermal cut-out that will shut down the machine if it overheats. Here's what it says in one of the CT 22/33 manuals:

Temperature control
A temperature fuse switches the dust extractor off
before this reaches a critical temperature to protect
against overheating - switch dust extractor off
and leave for around 5 minutes to cool down.
If the dust extractor still cannot be switched back
on, please consult a Festool-service centre.

I didn't leave my CT switched on with a blocked hose to see if the machine overheated and whether the thermal cut-out worked - and I'm not going to either!

On another note, I want to compement you on the input you are putting in as a moderator. Your posts have always been full of useful information and definative for the issue at hand. I felt it hardly possible you could do any better but since becoming a moderator you have really outdone yourself. Great work. That goes for you too, Peter. You efforts have re-established the ambiance this forum had at its best.

Many thanks for your kind words!

Forrest

 

[Neill]

Amazing, Forrest. I guess I am out to lunch. I have had my C22 shut down when the hose was restricted and it made perfect sense to me at the time. That seems to fly in the face of less amp draw. The plot thickens.

On another note, I want to compement you on the input you are putting in as a moderator. Your posts have always been full of useful information and definative for the issue at hand. I felt it hardly possible you could do any better but since becoming a moderator you have really outdone yourself. Great work. That goes for you too, Peter. You efforts have re-established the ambiance this forum had at its best.

Greg,

Your praise is well placed.  The only thing I would add is kudos to Shane Holland.  His interest in this Forum and its members is infectious.  His good nature has brought a level of sincere friendship and helpfulness rarely experienced in any organization of this nature.

It seems like everytime a member broaches the subject of the contributors to this Forum we wind up off-topic.  From a personal point of view I can't help myself.  Sorry.

Neill

 

[AlexThePalex]

I didn't leave my CT switched on with a blocked hose to see if the machine overheated and whether the thermal cut-out worked - and I'm not going to either!

It's not a big deal. I had this all the time with my 20 year old home vac I used with my sanders before I got my CTL22. After 10 to 15 minutes of use it would stop itself because of the thermal safety in it. Then after cooling down it would start up again. The vac is still working today. The safety mechanism cuts the vac off long before there is any damage done. I hope and would surely expect Festool's thermal safety to work just as good.
 

 

[peter halle]

I can't wait to hear what the outcome of the posted issue will be.

Regarding Forrest - He is amazing.  Tonight he will probably pass 64,800 minutes of participating online as a member of this forum while logged in.

Shane has been busy and the future will be interesting.  Don't ask - we can't tell.  Well, we don't know yet anyway.

Thank you for the kind words.

Peter

 

[score0matic]

.  The only thing I would add is kudos to Shane Holland.  His interest in this Forum and its members is infectious.  His good nature has brought a level of sincere friendship and helpfulness rarely experienced in any organization of this nature.
Neill

Ditto
Craig

 

[imaginarynumber]

I too find that certain products will clog the bags, for example, gypsum- left long enough it rips the bags on my ct22.

Whilst not a perfect solution, I find that a roll of toilet paper, broken down into balls made from each sheet helps by increasing the mass of "stuff" inside the bag for things to cling to.

Additionally in the old days when I had a Numatic dust extractor I used to buy over sized bags- the idea being that I was increasing the (clogable) surface area.

Have you tried the new collapsable bags?

In an ideal world someone would have bags that contract and expand whilst in use, thereby agitating the dust from the surface of the bag .

 

[spikfot]

I want a Star Trek food replicator in my CL22.
"Make it so"

 

[CarlK]

First check the hose and make sure it does not have anything blocking it you can use a pipe or I use a leaf blower to blow it out. My CT 33 had a problem when I was getting the vacuum out of the back of the truck and the back wheels do not move sideways torqued the wheel and it cracked the plastic inside the case.  I screwed the wheel to the case but did not block the holes.  When I used it I noticed to much dust in the air when cutting using the TS 75 and the Kapex.  I took the bag out emptied it and still no suction.  The next day I swapped hoses still no suction. I removed the bag to rule out the bag still no suction. I than used duct tape to block the holes on the cracked case where the bag goes problem solved lots of suction.  In your case it sounds like the bag is filling it up and the dust cake on the inside of the bag will not let it breathe also check for cracks in the case by the wheels!  I think I read the newer vacuums cause the bag to collapse and blow back up this will reduce the dust cake build up and dust deputy on the vacuum might also help keep the back from filling up!