CTL22 vs CTM22

[leemind]

Hi,

I'm a Festool newbie, so be gentle

I'm about to make my first Festool Purchase -- a Domino, and I wanted to go the whole way and get a (decent) dust extractor as well.

Now, I'm a little confused as to whether to go for the CTL22 or CTM22. 

I understand the differences between the L & M models, being the MAC values of >1 mg/m3 or >0.1 mg/m3 but I am unsure as to whether the L is adequate for wood dust, including sawing MDF.

The festool.co.uk website spec pages imply (but don't say it explicitly) that you need the M model for wood dust (only by its omission in the spec of the L model) yet in the WoodFactsAutumn08 they say explicitly that the L is fine for wood.

Do people thing that for general workshop duties, including connecting to powertools for cutting/sanding/routing wood and MDF is the L adequate or should I pay for the M model, which as is considerably more, and seemingly much harder to find at stockists? (I've phoned a couple and they stock the L but M seems to be special order only)

I've asked the same question of festool.co.uk, (they haven't responded yet) but I thought it would be great to get the communities views!

Much appreciated

David

 

[paul_david_thomas]

David,

I've got a mini... I use it with my TS55, Domino, OFT 700, OF1400... It really depends how much work you do...

I'm chuft to bits with the mini. I'd say the only time I might want something larger would be if I did more work where I need a split air intake - i.e. a Y connector on the hose. This would be used on my CMS table with the TS55 mounted under.

I've refurbished 4 houses now with the mini - more than adequate...

Paul.

p.s. yes, I know I've not really addressed your question. Just letting you know the entry level works just fine too.

 

[CO_JCD]

David,

My understanding is that the actual filtering performance is identical in that both machines use the same filters and bags.  The main difference is that the CTM 22 senses the volume of air flowing through it and sounds an alarm (beeper) when the airflow drops.  One use for this is to tell you that the bag if full, however, the other more useful use it to tell you that the 27mm hose has become restricted and needs unblocking.  I personally find this useful as it tells you something is wrong before the machine ceases to do its job.

The real reason for the M version is that it meets certain EU regulations for working with wood dust and is a requirement for professional use - for personal, non-professional, use the L version is fine unless you value the above airflow sensor feature.  That is, with the L version, if the machine stops picking up as well as it should, unblock the hose / change the bag.

Hope this helps.

John

 

[Frank-Jan]

The difference between the two is that the M version has flowdetection, you can recognise them by the extra dial to set the hose diameter (if you missed the big stickers with the "M"). The M version has a different filter, and comes with a cap to put on the port when the hose is not connected.

The CTL is rated for dustclass "L" which means it is allowed to be used for dust with a MAC value of 1mg/m? or larger. (There is very little info available on the web, but my guess is MAC stands for Maximum Allowed Concentration.

The CTM is rated for dustclass ... you guessed it... "M" for dust with a MAC value of 0.1 mg/m? or larger.

(They also sell a vac rated "H", for use with asbestos; my guess is it stands for Hazardous)

The M version is only sold in Europe, in the US and Australia they do put other filters in the CT (hepa).

I had a chat with a festool rep at a demo a while back about this subject, and he said that if you follow the Dutch arbo (safety regulations) you should use the CTM for MDF dust; he also said it's mostly schools and bigger companies that buy them (probably because they get inspected much more often). The flow detection automatically adjust suction to keep a certain flowrate; but it won't suck harder than the CTL at maximum. I asked why they didn't just put another filter in the vac, but he said the dust rating is type specific.

I have the CT, got it before it was named CTL, I use it mostly with wood (sawing ply, hardwood, routing for hinges, lock hardware..., but also occasionally for sawing mdf)
With the CT's the higher numbers just give more capacity (bigger bag), and a little bit of onboard storage. But the CT has significantly more "sucking power" than the mini (the midi, is the same as the mini, but with more capacity) (based on the specs, I haven't used another festool vac than the CT; I do have another vac for use for grinding concrete and masonry, with automatic filtercleaning, but that's another brand; I use that one for drywall sanding aswell)

The M vacs are almost 50% more expensive than the L vacs.

 

[leemind]

Superb, thank you both for the info.  More info than I could find anywhere on the web! I did google the dust ratings, but 90% of the links seemed to refer to festool links!  Frank-Jan, you are right, the M's are hugely more expensive, and it sounds like for my use the L will be more than adequate, and no-one round here seems to keep the M in stock either!

Right, I'm off to the shop to load up the credit card !

David

 

[Gabriel]

I had the same doubt for months and finally bought the 22 CTL (if you are in Europe: there is a special offer with 10 dustbags until the end of November). The machine is wonderful. My understanding is that the "M" is a security requirement (probably more strict in Germany), but: the machines are the same, the dustbags are the same, the filters are the same. If you are careful checking whether the dustbags are full and clean the filters..., you'll be saving money.

 

[Frank-Jan]

...., the filters are the same. ...

Indeed they are... I was mistaken. (I already thought it was odd they could get the same cfm with finer filtration, at first I thought the MAC thing had something to do with particle size)

 

[Gabriel]

...and I have to add that although I preferred not to buy Maffell, for example (I'm becoming a Festool fan), Maffell only offers M-class dust extractors (which in the end is more serious a policy for a company which is providing tools for woodworking), and cheaper.

 

[Frank-Jan]

..., Maffell only offers M-class dust extractors ...

They offer them in 4 versions ( 2 reservoirsizes and M-certified or not) link

It seems they have their vacs made by starmix same as bosch, hitachi, milwaukee, metabo, spit (there might be more).

I have the spit version myself, mostly used with concrete/masonry-cutting tools (I got it because of the electromagnetic filter cleaning); Altough the hose that comes standard with the vac goes around the dustport on the vac and locks on bajonet-style, the festool hoses fit perfectly on the inside of the dustport.
I see that Mafell, like metabo have an accessory on top to hook systainers to, but both colourschemes don't fit wel with orange...

 

[johncoths]

I guess just I wanted to consider the security requirement of the CTL22 and the CTM22. To think I really need to search for more information about this guys..

_________________
Security Systems

 

[justinmcf]

john, if you have to advertise your business, please do it somewhere else.
this forum is not the place for you.

if i have misunderstood your post, please accept my apologies.
regards, justin.

 

[woodguy7]

David

I bought the cleantex ctl26 about 2 weeks ago & use it with sanders, routers domino kappex etc.  I cut every thing from softwood, hardwood, laminates & loads of M.D.F & the extractor works superb.  I got mine fitted with an extra socket module & a "y" connector for the hose.

Couldn't be happier with it,

Woodguy