dealers that refuse to stock full festool line

[peter halle]

Dear Brick and Mortar Festool Dealer,

Let's face it, stocking the entire line is pricey and probably doesn't make sense for the average retailer.  Just too many $$ tied up in inventory.  But, to not have at least the most popular tools or the gateway tools in stock is also a bad idea.  Not having consumables like sandpaper for the tools that you sell is insane.  Take sandpaper as an example; even if you just carry every other grit and maybe a general purpose line like Granat your customers will be able to make due, especially in a time crunch.  Consumables continue to bring customers back.  They also are more profitable.  Let's face it, once your customer purchases  a tool you are more likely to sell another.  Rarely will you sell the same one because of their lifespan.  But consumables put the educated, more-likely-than-not, repeat customer inside your doors and they are already motivated.  Educate about the accessories - they are what completes the system.  What other tool manufacturer makes as many accessories for a router?

You might be the only dealer in your area but there is this thing called the web that will siphon sales away from you unless you offer what the internet can't - quality interaction face-to-face with the customer.  So it might make sense to make sure that those entrusted in helping out with a premium brand have premium training.  Maybe not all your employees, but definitely have a "specialist".  Maybe even offer appointments to make sure that your customers feel special when they need that extra help.  A business card for those specialists might make a difference.  It will also make that number more accessible if in a wallet when someone is away from the internet.  Once you lose that customer to the internet dealer who gives great service you most likely have lost them for good.

If you offer classes you will sell more tools.  Remember why you picked up the line?  Was it because you saw what a TS could do?  Or the lack of dust?  Seeing things on YouTube isn't the same as in person.  Woodworkers are very much a touchy-feelie bunch that believes in just-in-time and sometimes impulsive buying.  A class a few yards away from the tools for sale is far more timely than even Amazon Prime shipping.

Just a few thoughts offered genuinely and constructively.

Peter

 

[Bikeboy80]

Nice post Peter!

Consumables is one of the reasons I very rairly visit my local Brick and Mortar store, their selection is horrible. And when they don't have what I need they will order it but it takes much longer to receive then if I just ordered from one of the dealer on here.  [blink]

 

[PeterK]

I think it would truly benefit Festool USA to visit the listed dealers at some frequency. There is a listed dealer - closest one to me - about 90 miles away. I went there and they did not have a single Festool item in the store. Manager said he works by ordering when a customer arrives. There is no way that store should be a listed dealer. If Festool USA traveled to the stores, they could then rank them for stocking percentage - like a 20,40,60,80% - so that customers could easily determine traveling. It is a real turn-off to customers to travel long distances only to find out they have little product or none to show.

Calling does not help as I found out as was told by a different listed dealer that they stocked virtually 100% but when I arrived, they did not even have the TS saws, no dust collectors, no Kapex, the MFT they had to demo was the original 800 and MFT versions from several years ago. Thankfully I have Bob Marino who has taken care of me for many years now and I know Tom is awesome as well.

 

[Sparktrician]

Also, you can give the b & m a call to insure what you want/need is in stock before you make the ride on over.  That should help lessen the aggravation/frustration a bit.

I can't tell you the number of times I've been told that the local B&M shop had something in stock, only to spend 30 minutes to drive there and find out that the computer showed one, but none could be found in the store. 

 

[Bob Marino]

Also, you can give the b & m a call to insure what you want/need is in stock before you make the ride on over.  That should help lessen the aggravation/frustration a bit.

I can't tell you the number of times I've been told that the local B&M shop had something in stock, only to spend 30 minutes to drive there and find out that the computer showed one, but none could be found in the store.  

Ok, point well taken. That's totally unacceptable.
But before I'd leave I'd have a heck of a talk with the Manager.
Having said that, if I were burnt, I would ask the manager to personally confirm the item is in stock and he will be holding it for me.

Bob

 

[Frank Pellow]

Dear Brick and Mortar Festool Dealer,

Let's face it, stocking the entire line is pricey and probably doesn't make sense for the average retailer.  Just too many $$ tied up in inventory.  But, to not have at least the most popular tools or the gateway tools in stock is also a bad idea.  Not having consumables like sandpaper for the tools that you sell is insane.  Take sandpaper as an example; even if you just carry every other grit and maybe a general purpose line like Granat your customers will be able to make due, especially in a time crunch.  Consumables continue to bring customers back.  They also are more profitable.  Let's face it, once your customer purchases  a tool you are more likely to sell another.  Rarely will you sell the same one because of their lifespan.  But consumables put the educated, more-likely-than-not, repeat customer inside your doors and they are already motivated.  Educate about the accessories - they are what completes the system.  What other tool manufacturer makes as many accessories for a router?

You might be the only dealer in your area but there is this thing called the web that will siphon sales away from you unless you offer what the internet can't - quality interaction face-to-face with the customer.  So it might make sense to make sure that those entrusted in helping out with a premium brand have premium training.  Maybe not all your employees, but definitely have a "specialist".  Maybe even offer appointments to make sure that your customers feel special when they need that extra help.  A business card for those specialists might make a difference.  It will also make that number more accessible if in a wallet when someone is away from the internet.  Once you lose that customer to the internet dealer who gives great service you most likely have lost them for good.

If you offer classes you will sell more tools.  Remember why you picked up the line?  Was it because you saw what a TS could do?  Or the lack of dust?  Seeing things on YouTube isn't the same as in person.  Woodworkers are very much a touchy-feelie bunch that believes in just-in-time and sometimes impulsive buying.  A class a few yards away from the tools for sale is far more timely than even Amazon Prime shipping.

Just a few thoughts offered genuinely and constructively.

Peter

Well said Peter!

 

[AlexThePalex]

Back to the OP, I'm not making excuses for poor service or the lack of proper stock levels by a particular dealer, perhaps Festool needs to better insure/monitor that there are some type of dealer minimal stock levels at any given time. Again, maybe giving a call before taking that trip over, may lessen your (and others) frustration level.

Don't know what the rules about it are in NA, but here in The Netherlands a dealer needs to have a minimum of 22 tools in the showroom, including a CMS, and a certain amount of  accessories. What I hear from dealers is that Festool pretty actively monitors those minimal levels are complied to.

I can't tell you the number of times I've been told that the local B&M shop had something in stock, only to spend 30 minutes to drive there and find out that the computer showed one, but none could be found in the store. 

Happens to me all the time too.

 

[Bob Marino]

Back to the OP, I'm not making excuses for poor service or the lack of proper stock levels by a particular dealer, perhaps Festool needs to better insure/monitor that there are some type of dealer minimal stock levels at any given time. Again, maybe giving a call before taking that trip over, may lessen your (and others) frustration level.

Don't know what the rules about it are in NA, but here in The Netherlands a dealer needs to have a minimum of 22 tools in the showroom, including a CMS, and a certain amount of  accessories. What I hear from dealers is that Festool pretty actively monitors those minimal levels are complied to.

I can't tell you the number of times I've been told that the local B&M shop had something in stock, only to spend 30 minutes to drive there and find out that the computer showed one, but none could be found in the store. 

Happens to me all the time too.

Alex,

I'm sure there are minimal dealer stocking levels; I honestly don't know what they are, because that was never an issue for me when I signed on in 2001.  Having said that, it seems odd to me that this isn't monitored for compliance a littler closer.

Bob

 

[ShawnRussell]

I do not think it is a matter of stocking everything or even close to everything. In my area there are now five Festool dealers. I have visited four of them. Two of them are outstanding(Highland Hardware and WoodCraft Atlanta), one is a new dealer and has a good selection that is not as large as the other two outstanding dealers, and then you have Rockler. The first three dealers all have an MFT, at least 1 CT, sanders, drills, routers, saws, Domino, and Kapex. All of these items are on the floor and you can pick them up, turn them on, and even ask for a scrap of wood to test the tools on.

Rockler does not have an MFT setup. They have a about four to five feet of wall space that has some Festool items. They do have a router, drill, and sander which are all Chained to the wall! It would be bad enough about their poor setup but their attitude stinks even more.

I might be a Festool fanboy(secretly I am an Apple fanboy as well) but I am their customer and I try to be a good marketer. I do not come close to owning one of everything heck I do not even have one of every essential but the tools I do have I like to show to others and get them excited about the product as well. The tools are well designed, saves time, and dang if I can now work wood and not suffer from allergies like I did years ago. Just being able to work in a hobby that I enjoy and can do without harm to my body or lungs makes me want to spread the word. The problem I have is very much like the poster. I hate to talk about this great product line, the awesome service Festool provides, to then have some lazy smuck of a dealer make me look like a liar. Most people will associate the buying experience with the product. I also love to showcase the Apple products I have but I always recommend someone buying from the Apple store and not Best Buy(another day for that rant).

I am proud of the brands I purchase. The Festool employees I have met are all generous with their time and knowledge and if they resided closer I am sure I would be good friends with. I just hate to see good tools, good company, good people, associated with a shoddy dealer. And I should clarify that not all Rocklers are bad. Asheville Hardware is a great Rockler franchise and fully supports Festool. I am hoping some Rockler executive sees this rant and brings the Atlanta franchise and other shoddy stores in line with good service and a well run business.
,

If memory serves, Festool has well over 1000 SKUs. Very, very few dealers have every single SKU in stock. And even if a dealer carries every single SKU; no one has every single SKU on hand all the time, without some item being on back-order.  But many dealers have websites that will list those items, and tell you on hand status (whether in stock, back-ordered or ships from Festool directly).  If not in stock, many dealers will have Festool drop ship the item directly to you, rather than waiting for the dealer to get restocked from Festool.
Also, you can give the b & m a call to insure what you want/need is in stock before you make the ride on over.  That should help lessen the aggravation/frustration a bit.

Bob

* Edited for spelling. Duh!

 

[Sparktrician]

Also, you can give the b & m a call to insure what you want/need is in stock before you make the ride on over.  That should help lessen the aggravation/frustration a bit.

I can't tell you the number of times I've been told that the local B&M shop had something in stock, only to spend 30 minutes to drive there and find out that the computer showed one, but none could be found in the store. 

Ok, point well taken. That's totally unacceptable.
But before I'd leave I'd have a heck of a talk with the Manager.
Having said that, if I were burnt, I would ask the manager to personally confirm the item is in stock and he will be holding it for me.

Bob

Unacceptable barely touches the sentiment, Bob.  When I order on-line, I get immediate confirmation and know it's on its way most wiki-wiki, and in the instance that it's on back-order, I know that, too.  That sure as he11 beats spending an hour on the road not once, but twice.  And yes, the alleged manager, if present, has felt my wrath more than once. 

 

[andy5405]

I think this is a have your cake and eat it thread. Can we realistically expect to have all the benefits that the internet offers in so many ways in our lives and yet still expect tool dealers to run their business as if the internet didn't exist? They face massively increased competition and since Festool got their bottom smacked have less opportunities to differentiate on customer service alone. Some choose to carry more Festool inventory than others and it may work for them but they can't all do it as it just won't make business sense for some.

The only really legitimate complaint I can see on this thread is the people that check stock before they drive to pick something up and repeatedly find it's not there when they get there. Even in that scenario there are alternatives and I would just order online. The world has evolved and if you are a member on here you have at least partially embraced the power of the internet. Can we honestly expect all our tool dealers to still operate in a way that could only really exist on a widespread basis if the internet didn't exist?

A tool dealer could be a bit pony in any era. 20 years ago would have meant a 30 min drive would turn into a 2 hour drive if you couldn't get satisfied locally. All you have to do nowadays is click your mouse elsewhere whilst still sat in the comfort of your armchair. 

 

[gkaiseril]

Rockler does not have an MFT setup. They have a about four to five feet of wall space that has some Festool items. They do have a router, drill, and sander which are all Chained to the wall! It would be bad enough about their poor setup but their attitude stinks even more.

Well the Schaumburg, IL store does an MFT table setup and has the shop personnel or the Festool representative give regular free demonstrations of the MFT and  TS55/75 saws, guide rails, and clamps. The staff also says that if they do not have an item in stock they will order it for home or store delivery.

As with any retail store it is the manager that sets the tone and level of service.

 

[greg mann]

To me, it seems a logical approach for those who want to use the internet should be to buy from those dealers who participate here. No one, it seems, complains about bad service from any of them. If you prefer brick and mortar, and have a good one near you (I do; Glenn Wing) count your blessings. I would also submit that Amazon partner stores may not be the best internet sources, regardless of tax or shipping benefits because they provide no additional service or expertise unless they also participate here. I also personally feel that if you do neither of these and buy based only on saving tax money or shipping costs and you get less than stellar service then you are probably getting what you deserve.

B & M stores that have good stock, especially consumables, and are trying to support their products well should be supported. My guy would loan me a demo in a heartbeat if I asked. In fact, I would loan one of my tools to him to help one of his good customers out of a jam if the situation came up. That is how much I think of him.

In retrospect, I have a hunch Festool might not have pulled the trigger on making Rockler a corporate wide distributor if they had it to do again. My guess is that someone within the Festool sales strategists believed this was a quick way to expand market opportunities. The unintended consequences seem evident in this thread. There are certainly complaints about WoodCraft and other independent dealers but Rockler has few shining stars. Store by store evaluations would have taken longer but we would have had a better cadre of quality stores.

 

[Brian Livingstone]

Hi,

I recently purchased a RS2E in Halifax, Nova Scotia.  My local favorite Festool dealer does not stock the sandpaper for the RS2E.  I had to order it from British Columbia, some 3 000 miles or more away !  It arrived in about a week.  Strange that one would stock a sander but not any sandpaper for it.  When I purchased the RTS400, I purchased a 10 pack of my commonly used grits, but a 100 pack of 100 grit paper.  Guess what paper I now use the most and replace most frequently ?

I did certainly get my money's worth out of the one pice of 220 grit sandpaper that came with the RS2E. 

All the best.

 

[dicktill]

With respect to "Rockler bashing": Don't lump them all together. If it were not for the Rockler in Buffalo NY (75 miles from me), I probably still wouldn't have heard of Festool. I went there a year and a half ago, and happened to ask the employee (now a personal friend) that was helping me what they had in rails to make really straight cuts in plywood for built-ins. He steered me away from the rail/clamps that I was looking at on the wall (they have several brands), and introduced me to Festool on the other side of the store. Needless to say, I had major sticker shock. But I bought a TS-55 and later an MFT/3, some clamps, etc., etc. Yes, they don't have a huge selection of abrasives, but as someone else pointed out, I can have them double check their stock and hold it for me, and they don't lie about what they do or don't have. If it weren't for them, the internet dealers on FOG wouldn't have my business. And I wouldn't be on FOG (hey, maybe some of you would appreciate that [huh]) Every 2 to 3 months they have a Festool demonstration of some tool(s). So there you have another take on Rockler, and that probably applies to some other brick & mortar stores.

Regards, Dick

 

[ShawnRussell]

I just wish Lee Valley would hurry up and enter the American market with brick and mortar stores. They already have a large portion of my business and is one of the few reasons I attend the woodworking shows.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Since I was 5 years old I inherited my grandfather's passion for woodworking. Part of each year he shared the large loft in West Greenwich Village, NY with my parents. That was only fitting because my father and GrandPa had bought that building and those on either side as an investment in 1927.

Unfortunately for woodworking, our loft was the whole fifth floor, with no elevator and narrow stairs. GrandPa's work around was to treat all of his suppliers as if they were a combination of business partner and favorite relative. GrandPa made museum-quality furniture using only hand tools designed prior to 1810. He preferred to buy large rough pieces of hardwood. The only way those arrived in the loft was the goodwill of the suppliers who "motivated" their delivery people to carry all that lumber up the stairs. Bummer that there was no access to the loft from windows on the street, so some kind of hoist could be arranged. Then after the beautiful furniture was completed, GrandPa depended on his goodwill with a moving company.

I started building European-style System 32 cabinets in 1947 following my graduation from prep school and enrollment in NYU, I shared a fifth floor loft with 4 other NYU engineering majors. However, I was pragmatic enough to also rent half of the basement, the portion facing Waverly Place. Before WWII the building took out its coal furnace and boiler, buying steam from ConEdison. So I was able to take advantage of the old coal shute down which my plywood was delivered.

Following GrandPa's lead, I treated my lumber and hardware suppliers very well. In 1947 top quality cabinet grade plywood was still in short supply. So I asked my lumber dealer what I could do to make their life easier, beside paying my bills on time! What my lumber dealer wanted from me was as much advance information as to the specifics of my needs. Same was true of my cabinet hardware suppliers. As I booked a new job to be done 6-8 weeks in the future, I ordered my plywood, hardwood and hardware with specific delivery dates. So they had all that time to find what I needed.

I have always done this with my suppliers ever since. When Festool brings out a new tool, I pre-order it and all the accessories. My Festool dealer gets FAXes with my expendables requirements both 6 months and 12 months in the future. I have enough storage space in my shop and adjacent warehouse that I can accept delivery and pay for my future needs. Some plywood is specific to a job, but most, such as pre-finished maple plywood, is used all the time. I like to have 4 weeks of the major plywoods on hand. Deliveries can be at the convenience of my plywood supplier. My shop is on land extending from one industrial street to a slightly more traveled wide street. Therefore I set up the entry on the busy street so the exit is on the virtually empty street, speeding up truck turn around. I started off with a brand-new 3 wheel electric fork lift truck, nimble and ideal for moving plywood around in the shop. But its forks could not reach across a truck. So when I bought the warehouse I also bought an all terrain boom truck with forks. That can pick-up two lifts of plywood at a time and reach across the lumber truck to handle the far stack without moving. Thus we can and often do unload 8 full lifts of plywood and have the truck on its way in less than 10 minutes. Trust me, my plywood supplier loves this.

See, to me supplier relationships should last longer than a lifetime. The more advance notice I can provide, the better they can plan. They tell me in advance when special deals will be available, so I can take advantage. I am not begging for discounts, the discounts are offered to me. "Goods well bought are half-way sold."

 

[Paul G]

Since I was 5 years old I inherited my grandfather's passion for woodworking. Part of each year he shared the large loft in West Greenwich Village, NY with my parents. That was only fitting because my father and GrandPa had bought that building and those on either side as an investment in 1927.

Unfortunately for woodworking, our loft was the whole fifth floor, with no elevator and narrow stairs. GrandPa's work around was to treat all of his suppliers as if they were a combination of business partner and favorite relative. GrandPa made museum-quality furniture using only hand tools designed prior to 1810. He preferred to buy large rough pieces of hardwood. The only way those arrived in the loft was the goodwill of the suppliers who "motivated" their delivery people to carry all that lumber up the stairs. Bummer that there was no access to the loft from windows on the street, so some kind of hoist could be arranged. Then after the beautiful furniture was completed, GrandPa depended on his goodwill with a moving company.

I started building European-style System 32 cabinets in 1947 following my graduation from prep school and enrollment in NYU, I shared a fifth floor loft with 4 other NYU engineering majors. However, I was pragmatic enough to also rent half of the basement, the portion facing Waverly Place. Before WWII the building took out its coal furnace and boiler, buying steam from ConEdison. So I was able to take advantage of the old coal shute down which my plywood was delivered.

Following GrandPa's lead, I treated my lumber and hardware suppliers very well. In 1947 top quality cabinet grade plywood was still in short supply. So I asked my lumber dealer what I could do to make their life easier, beside paying my bills on time! What my lumber dealer wanted from me was as much advance information as to the specifics of my needs. Same was true of my cabinet hardware suppliers. As I booked a new job to be done 6-8 weeks in the future, I ordered my plywood, hardwood and hardware with specific delivery dates. So they had all that time to find what I needed.

I have always done this with my suppliers ever since. When Festool brings out a new tool, I pre-order it and all the accessories. My Festool dealer gets FAXes with my expendables requirements both 6 months and 12 months in the future. I have enough storage space in my shop and adjacent warehouse that I can accept delivery and pay for my future needs. Some plywood is specific to a job, but most, such as pre-finished maple plywood, is used all the time. I like to have 4 weeks of the major plywoods on hand. Deliveries can be at the convenience of my plywood supplier. My shop is on land extending from one industrial street to a slightly more traveled wide street. Therefore I set up the entry on the busy street so the exit is on the virtually empty street, speeding up truck turn around. I started off with a brand-new 3 wheel electric fork lift truck, nimble and ideal for moving plywood around in the shop. But its forks could not reach across a truck. So when I bought the warehouse I also bought an all terrain boom truck with forks. That can pick-up two lifts of plywood at a time and reach across the lumber truck to handle the far stack without moving. Thus we can and often do unload 8 full lifts of plywood and have the truck on its way in less than 10 minutes. Trust me, my plywood supplier loves this.

See, to me supplier relationships should last longer than a lifetime. The more advance notice I can provide, the better they can plan. They tell me in advance when special deals will be available, so I can take advantage. I am not begging for discounts, the discounts are offered to me. "Goods well bought are half-way sold."

Excellent post! Totally agree with the value of building good relationships with suppliers. Fortunately there still are good ones out there and I do my best to shop at local stores. Also agree with Peter's points about stocking general purpose consumables, I mean no TS75 blades in stock, really?

 

[sancho57]

With respect to "Rockler bashing": Don't lump them all together. If it were not for the Rockler in Buffalo NY (75 miles from me), I probably still wouldn't have heard of Festool. I went there a year and a half ago, and happened to ask the employee (now a personal friend) that was helping me what they had in rails to make really straight cuts in plywood for built-ins. He steered me away from the rail/clamps that I was looking at on the wall (they have several brands), and introduced me to Festool on the other side of the store. Needless to say, I had major sticker shock. But I bought a TS-55 and later an MFT/3, some clamps, etc., etc. Yes, they don't have a huge selection of abrasives, but as someone else pointed out, I can have them double check their stock and hold it for me, and they don't lie about what they do or don't have. If it weren't for them, the internet dealers on FOG wouldn't have my business. And I wouldn't be on FOG (hey, maybe some of you would appreciate that [huh]) Every 2 to 3 months they have a Festool demonstration of some tool(s). So there you have another take on Rockler, and that probably applies to some other brick & mortar stores.

Regards, Dick

Like was already pointed out, depends on the store manager. A lot of Rocklers are franchised. The one that was near my house was jacked up. i wouldnt darken their door step in anyway shape or form.  I would drive past the Rockler to go to Austins Hardwood just to pick up some small item or go the other direction twice as far to the local woodcraft.

 

[dicktill]

With respect to "Rockler bashing": Don't lump them all together. If it were not for the Rockler in Buffalo NY (75 miles from me), I probably still wouldn't have heard of Festool. I went there a year and a half ago, and happened to ask the employee (now a personal friend) that was helping me what they had in rails to make really straight cuts in plywood for built-ins. He steered me away from the rail/clamps that I was looking at on the wall (they have several brands), and introduced me to Festool on the other side of the store. Needless to say, I had major sticker shock. But I bought a TS-55 and later an MFT/3, some clamps, etc., etc. Yes, they don't have a huge selection of abrasives, but as someone else pointed out, I can have them double check their stock and hold it for me, and they don't lie about what they do or don't have. If it weren't for them, the internet dealers on FOG wouldn't have my business. And I wouldn't be on FOG (hey, maybe some of you would appreciate that [huh]) Every 2 to 3 months they have a Festool demonstration of some tool(s). So there you have another take on Rockler, and that probably applies to some other brick & mortar stores.

Regards, Dick

Like was already pointed out, depends on the store manager. A lot of Rocklers are franchised. The one that was near my house was jacked up. i wouldnt darken their door step in anyway shape or form.  I would drive past the Rockler to go to Austins Hardwood just to pick up some small item or go the other direction twice as far to the local woodcraft.

Funny, I've only been to one Woodcraft store (Rochester NY), and had the same bad impression of it as some folks have had of Rockler. Like you said, a lot depends on the manager (and/or owner).

BTW Jobsworth, you picked a beautiful area of the world to move to!