DF700 vs. DF500

[Bertotti]

I find there are two types of tool buyers. One type buys a tool when he/she has an immediate need and cannot do the job without that tool. The second type, a new tool they can imagine a need for somewhere in the future and places an immediate order. The second type cruises the woodworking shows and stores just to look and often returns with a treasure.

Quilty as charged for both!
My usual scenario is to start a project get tired of doing the same thing over and over and look for a faster way, find it in a new tool only to find it isn't there and I have to order and by the time I get it I waded through the slow old process, but its there for the next time.

I find I still hesitate to pull the trigger on an expensive tool but I am also disappointed it wasn't there. I doubt I will get anything I was going to use it for done before it arrives so I will use it soon but sadly that's because I found some 18" floor trusses flexing when a person walks across that section of floor. There were water leaks so now flooring comes out to inspect the subfloor then fix or tackle the trusses themselves, most likely a combination of both. The original contractor installed a broken one and scabbed a 2x4 8" long along the broken part. I hate it when people take the easy way out on a new build now 14 years later it's that much more of a pain. I digress sorry.

I am anxious for the store to get the 700 that says something!

 

[squall_line]

The second type, a new tool they can imagine a need for somewhere in the future and places an immediate order. The second type cruises the woodworking shows and stores just to look and often returns with a treasure.

Well, this is the Festool Owner's Group, after all, not the Festool User's Group.  [cool]

 

[Rutabagared]

I’ve considered the 700 but have never felt shorted with the 500, even on larger pieces.  I’ve used the 500 for all the joinery on larger pieces as well as chairs.  I just double them when appropriate.  The trestle table is 6’ in length and assembled with all 10mm tenons.  The chairs are a mix of all tenon sizes, but mostly 10mm for the seat rails.  Plunge depth is a limiting factor compared to the 700.  But I haven’t experienced any issues with the chairs, and I’ve had diners that weighed 200+ (90kg). I’ve also had a chair that has had near daily use of 10+ years with no issues (the finished chair in the one in-process photo).  That said, I’m currently building a round table with 6/4 and 8/4 ash using 10mm and am ready to build another set of accompanying chairs using the same joinery.  I’m considering buying the 10mm tenon stock in extended lengths and cutting to size, allowing me to gain that extra 3mm of depth that the plunge mechanism of the 500 provides for (28mm vs 25mm for the stock tenon sizes of 10 x 50 mm). 

Although the 700 does have features that I would like, it is just to heavy/bulky for me compared to the 500, and I’m not getting any younger.  I’ve used the 500 in many odd ways of holding that I doubt I could with the 700.  Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip. Plunge depth is a limiting factor compared to the 700.  Snip.

I faced the same dilemma about the depth when I built a set of 6 chairs. To err on the safe side, I wanted to use 10x 80 (shop-made) tenons instead of 10x50 for one particular joint in each chair. My solution was to use a simple drilling guide/10mm drill bit, and make the 10x50 mortises deeper:

[attachimg=1]

So far, out of all the domino projects I've done (about two dozen of them), I've used the poor man's DF700 twice.

 

[Rutabagared]

Snip. Plunge depth is a limiting factor compared to the 700.  Snip.

I faced the same dilemma about the depth when I built a set of 6 chairs. To err on the safe side, I wanted to use 10x 80 (shop-made) tenons instead of 10x50 for one particular joint in each chair. My solution was to use a simple drilling guide/10mm drill bit, and make the 10x50 mortises deeper:

[attachimg=1]

So far, out of all the domino projects I've done (about two dozen of them), I've used the poor man's DF700 twice.

Thanks, Chuck!  That's a great idea.

 

[woodferret]

I heard trusses and DF700 and straight up went Nope.

 

[Bertotti]

I heard trusses and DF700 and straight up went Nope.

Don't worry I am not using a DF700 to repair floor trusses. No, that is what got in my way of building out a semi-midevil kitchen project which I will use the DF700 on! Apologies for the confusion.

 

[woodferret]

Ah, that's comforting to hear.  As for real old skool kitchens now it makes sense why you went with the DF700.

 

[Lincoln]

I had the 500, but sold it to buy the 700 - it's a much better tool in every way, except weight.

...

I use a Mafell doweller for cabinet work.

The DF500 is a cabinet maker's tool.

So your choice there was not really DF500 vs. DF700 but it was DF500 versus Maffel DD40.

A completely different discussion and - for a pro - it makes a lot of sense to lean on the DD40 between the two for bulk work and add DF700 to tag along where the DD40 cannot be used.

Still doesn't change the fact (for me) that the 700 is a far better engineered tool. Easier to plunge, MUCH better locating pins, better fence system, on/off switch in a better location, top handle, etc, etc. It's a shame it's so expensive. I don't mind the weight, but when you pick up the Mafell or Lamello, you realise how much weight you've been slinging around!
For cabinet work only, the 500 is an 'ok' choice, but for general wood joining it's fine, just not as good as the 700 [smile]

 

[bullseye]

The second type, a new tool they can imagine a need for somewhere in the future and places an immediate order.

I feel attacked!  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Just bought a P1CC which I won't need until later in the year. But I needed it to grace my garage as soon as possible!

I faced the same dilemma about the depth when I built a set of 6 chairs. To err on the safe side, I wanted to use 10x 80 (shop-made) tenons instead of 10x50 for one particular joint in each chair. My solution was to use a simple drilling guide/10mm drill bit, and make the 10x50 mortises deeper:

So far, out of all the domino projects I've done (about two dozen of them), I've used the poor man's DF700 twice.

I'd had an idea of using a router to do a similar thing of extending the depth. Anyone tried that?

 

[woodferret]

I'd had an idea of using a router to do a similar thing of extending the depth. Anyone tried that?

I contemplated that once too but you'd need a stubby mortise bit with bearing and you'd get at most another 28mm.  I didn't go through with it as i need the 70mm depth.  Its also got issues if your mortise is on the end of a long beam, taller than a bench height.  At this point, we're deadly close to making a custom horizontal bore jig for a 1/2 plunge router

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
I'd had an idea of using a router to do a similar thing of extending the depth. Anyone tried that?

If a drill bit with a guide can deepen Domino mortises, I see no reason why it can't be done with a router. I'd start with something like this:

[attachimg=1]

All that's needed is a plunge router with a fence or a guide and two stops to control the travel.

Needless to say, if one plans to do projects that require the DF700 most of the time, one should get a DF700, not a DF500 in the same vein that the DF500 should be the choice if the DF700's drilling capacity is not needed for the majority of projects to be undertaken.

 

[Ebuwan]

I have both.

I did a full kitchen cabinet build last year, using the domino method that Sedge shows in videos, and at that time i did NOT have the 500.

I used the Seneca adapter with the 700 to get 5mm and 6mm domino mortises.

Lets just say, the 700 does the job, but after a few panels, and having to switch between holding vertical, horizontal over and over, MAN the 700 gets heavy. I'm not old and not small either.

I bought the 500 a couple months later, and I wish I had it for the cabinet build, my elbow would have thanked me. As mentioned earlier in this thread, i use the 500 way more now that I have it, but when you need the 700 ya need the 700 (tables, beds, etc).

 

[ChuckM]

If Festool released a DF600 covering tenon sizes from 6mm to 10mm (x80mm), I'd sell my DF500 (weight: 7 lb) and get it, assuming its weight being 7 to 8 lb or so (DF700 is 11.4 lb).

 

[Bertotti]

I have both.

I did a full kitchen cabinet build last year, using the domino method that Sedge shows in videos, and at that time i did NOT have the 500.

I used the Seneca adapter with the 700 to get 5mm and 6mm domino mortises.

Lets just say, the 700 does the job, but after a few panels, and having to switch between holding vertical, horizontal over and over, MAN the 700 gets heavy. I'm not old and not small either.

I bought the 500 a couple months later, and I wish I had it for the cabinet build, my elbow would have thanked me. As mentioned earlier in this thread, i use the 500 way more now that I have it, but when you need the 700 ya need the 700 (tables, beds, etc).

Yep I agree, I am so fed up with normal cabinets that I convinced my wife, this is for my own home, That I'm redoing everything in the house with Cherry. It is all ruff sawn 4/4 up to 9/4. These will be similar to what a person might see in a D&D game video. Big, strong, and capable of holding up the roof in a pinch! One section will actually be a wall in front of a pantry with a unit that swings in. I have yet to work that out and is a topic for another thread. I think in my case the DF700 will be the correct choice. I hope some of the DR's I know will want some custom work when they see these!

 

[Bertotti]

Picked up the DF 700 today. It doesn't seem as unwieldy as it was made out to be. Seems very solid and well built. But between the domino box and the DF box it was pushing what I am currently allowed to carry so I won't be using it for a couple more weeks.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Picked up the DF 700 today. It doesn't seem as unwieldy as it was made out to be. Seems very solid and well built. But between the domino box and the DF box it was pushing what I am currently allowed to carry so I won't be using it for a couple more weeks.

Congrats on the new baby! I actually really like the DF700 and find it easier to manage than the 500. For me it gives a more stable hold and action, whereas the 500 kinda feels like pushing a biscuit joiner/grinder.

Absolutely love them both, but I definitely prefer using the 700 over the 500.

 

[jcrowe1950]

Picked up the DF 700 today. It doesn't seem as unwieldy as it was made out to be. Seems very solid and well built. But between the domino box and the DF box it was pushing what I am currently allowed to carry so I won't be using it for a couple more weeks.

    I think this may have been discussed earlier but the D500 was the first Domino and lessons were learned when designing the D700. The barrel grip nature of the D500 can tempt the user to grab the tool like a jigsaw, but that can introduce upward or downward tilt, which is suboptimal. The D700 is more "ergonomically" correct in that the D handle becomes an extension of the user's lower arm and it makes optimal plunging easier. I agree with the individual who commented on the pins on the D700 being remarkably useful. Further, with the D700, the extra wide setting was eliminated because mostly nobody ever used it. It was tight + 10mm....whereas the loose setting is tight + 6mm. However, if one owns both, the weight of the D500 makes it a great choice for those applications where it is most useful....cabinets and drawers for sure. One other quick subject, I have had a chance to play with the D14 knockdown connectors and they are massively impressive.....limited applicability but boy are they strong....

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.  Further, with the D700, the extra wide setting was eliminated because mostly nobody ever used it.
Snip.

The DF700's heavier weight, considered a negative by some, has one positive ring to it: When mortising in the vertical position, the machine doesn't move as easily as the DF500.

Not too many people use the extra wide setting on the DF500, because not too many are aware of its good uses. See some examples here:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...4mm-dominoes-another-use-of-4mm-domino-slots/

 

[Bertotti]

thanks [member=75933]luvmytoolz[/member] I am a bit disappointed as I got stuck working again after several weeks of laying low. So this weekend I hope I will be productive with the 700. Seriously can't wait to start playing with it. All my limited living restrictions are gone in two more days and I can ease back into life! My shop keeps calling me!

Guys and Gals it is nice to see those who prefer it. I was only on the fence while I learned the uses and for what I am doing lately and moving forward it just made more sense. I am tossed up on adding the adapter for smaller dominos or when the time comes adding the 500. That will have to wait for awhile. I need this to pay for itself first!