Difference between DWC 18-2500 and DWC 18-4500

[Bob D.]

"noise transmission from one appartment to the other is a large problem"

You can build a sound proof wall with staggered studs that only attach to one wall face. You weave sound insulation in between the studs and you can also double up the wallboard but you said you're installing a OSB under the drywall.

One reason for using metal studs is to reduce fire loading(as well as no VOCs, not subject to rot, mold, or termite damage), using OSB might negate that but if that's what in the specs you do what they say right. Doing otherwise is what brings buildings down. Just ask the contractor that built the Hyatt Regency in Kansas City and maybe when the dust settles and the investigation is over the condo which came down in Florida last month.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse

 

[AlexThePalex]

Well, lets hope the ceiling won't come crashing down on us Bob. [bite tongue]

 

[Bob D.]

I doubt it will since I suspect the walls you are adding are not structural
but merely partition walls.

I was just giving an example of what can happen when you deviate from
design which my suggestion of changing the wall structure might be.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I know, just kidding. Nothing we do is structural so that's ok.

The plans should be right in the first place. We just got the "updated" plans in yesterday, and guess what, all the doors are the wrong size. I am recalculating them right now so they can make the "updated" updated plans.  [tongue]

 

[Bob D.]

I've never heard of this material before but looks interesting. They claim one layer has the same sound insulation value as a double layer of drywall, so a big material and labor savings.

No doubt they take that into account when they price the stuff. :-(
https://bettersoundproofing.com/quietrock-vs-double-drywall/

One thing I remember being done on some jobs I worked where they were installing sound insulation in rooms was to use a special sound reducing caulk to seal gaps such as those at the floor and ceiling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_transmission_class

 

[Coen]

The 2500 will loose you speed and gain you torque, but if it's too hard for the 4500, it's the only option anyway. My brother bought the 2500 version for double diamand board on wood framing. No matter what; it will be a lot faster than a near-uncontrollable DeWalt drill.

The 15V battery will probably cost you both speed and torque.

The rules for repurposed buildings here are sh*t from the viewpoint of new occupants. Almost nothing applies.  [sad]

 

[Coen]

I've never heard of this material before but looks interesting. They claim one layer has the same sound proofing as a double layer of drywall, so a big material and labor savings.

No doubt they take that into account when they price the stuff. :-(
https://bettersoundproofing.com/quietrock-vs-double-drywall/

One thing I remember being done on some jobs I worked where they were soundproofing rooms was to use a special sound reducing caulk to seal gaps such as those at the floor and ceiling.

What didn't you hear about? OSB? The link you include has no mention of it either. There are other pages on the same website though, like this one;https://bettersoundproofing.com/drywall-osb-plywood-mdf-for-soundproofing/

Main reason for putting one layer of OSB behind the drywall is to make the wall stronger and make it easier to mount stuff to it.

 

[Packard]

In the early 1970s I was a traveling salesman.  I stopped at a Holiday Inn next to an airport.  They were building an addition and I got to speak with the forman.

They put down 2" x 6" base and ceiling plates.  And then used 2" x 4" studs vertically staggering from left to right on the plates.  This served to isolate the two walls.  They stapled regular carpet felt underpadding to the studs weaving the padding so that the sheetrock would not touch it. 

I would have thought that would be enough, but they also put up two layers of sheetrock.  This, he said, was standard practice in hotel walls between rooms.  They were also isolating the outer walls and the ceilings because of the low flying jets. 

I stayed there a couple of times and the rooms were quiet.

I saw on TV a music practice room being built.  They should have used that same isolation method but instead glued eggcrate sound killing foam to the inside. 

That kills all the reflected sound,  so to achieve the loudness they needed to perceive, the musicians had to play louder than normal.  If they used ceramic tile on the walls and tin ceiling tile, they would not have had to play so loudly to get the effect they were looking for.  So with the reflective panels in place and the isolation system too, this would have been a quiet room and would have sounded good inside too.

The reason people sing in the shower is that the tiles reflect the sound and makes them sound good.  Same principle applies.

 

[DeformedTree]

well, if you can't get a 3m rail, you could always go old school and just clamp what ever is around that is straight to the wood and run the saw along it.  It's not the fancy track saw way, but obviously works.

Are you also cutting the drywall with the tracksaw?

As was brought up on the walls. Pretty sure in the US, it's code for a double studded wall between separate units. I would expect it to be fairly universal and I think you implied NL code is the same. So are they having to redo those walls?  I think some areas here also have noise transmission limits between units, I'm not sure if it's code or more a local rule in places. I'm not sure staggered studs between units are allowed or not. It might cut the sound, but you have less space for insulation/noise barrier and would mean the tradesman like electricians are running wires thru studs of the other units.

Does having the OSB behind the drywall ever causes issues.  Like as humidity changes and such, do you ever get a wall bulge or any cracking as the 2 materials behave different?

 

[Coen]

What the code says in NL and what is actually done are quite different things. Inspection is near-complete absent in most cities.

You can also see this in speed limits for mopeds... about 96% of them going way past the limit.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Are you also cutting the drywall with the tracksaw?

No, definitely not, we just cut them with a stanley knife. Faster and less mess.

So are they having to redo those walls?

No, but both sides get double plasterboards now.

Does having the OSB behind the drywall ever causes issues.  Like as humidity changes and such, do you ever get a wall bulge or any cracking as the 2 materials behave different?

I've never seen it cause any issues. All seams between the boards are taped and filled with drywall compound which should prevent that. OSB doesn't work a lot since it's made from big chips that point in any direction.

 

[DeformedTree]

Are you also cutting the drywall with the tracksaw?

No, definitely not, we just cut them with a stanley knife. Faster and less mess.

Aww  [sad]. The Youtube video of a person doing it has made me curious if such a thing is common or how well it works. Looks to work well in the videos.

 

[mino]

Aww  [sad]. The Youtube video of a person doing it has made me curious if such a thing is common or how well it works. Looks to work well in the videos.

It works well, but you need to have an Auto-Clean Vac ... as normal filer will clog fast fro drywall. But you will have one anyway when doing drywall ...
There are also "special" drywall blades - kinda like the ones for aluminum just with less teeth. I have it and works a charm with TSC55 + AC Vac when you want/need a clean cut.

I repeat, when you *need* a clean cut.

Most of the time knife along a straight edge is faster and "good-enough" as Alex noted.

 

[DeformedTree]

Aww  [sad]. The Youtube video of a person doing it has made me curious if such a thing is common or how well it works. Looks to work well in the videos.

It works well, but you need to have an Auto-Clean Vac ... as normal filer will clog fast fro drywall. But you will have one anyway when doing drywall ...
There are also "special" drywall blades - kinda like the ones for aluminum just with less teeth. I have it and works a charm with TSC55 + AC Vac when you want/need a clean cut.

I repeat, when you *need* a clean cut.

Most of the time knife along a straight edge is faster and "good-enough" as Alex noted.

is it a festool blade or some 3rd party?

 

[live4ever]

Aww  [sad]. The Youtube video of a person doing it has made me curious if such a thing is common or how well it works. Looks to work well in the videos.

It works well, but you need to have an Auto-Clean Vac ... as normal filer will clog fast fro drywall. But you will have one anyway when doing drywall ...
There are also "special" drywall blades - kinda like the ones for aluminum just with less teeth. I have it and works a charm with TSC55 + AC Vac when you want/need a clean cut.

I repeat, when you *need* a clean cut.

Most of the time knife along a straight edge is faster and "good-enough" as Alex noted.

is it a festool blade or some 3rd party?

I just use a cheap (Oshlun 48T) in my TSC55.  Works great.  Nice for thin rips, and for 5/8”, which doesn’t give me clean snaps and is generally a pain to move around. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

Well, disappointingly, the DWC is out of the picture.

When I went to the dealer to get information and possibly try it, I was told the DWC has a serious compatibility issue with many brands of screw strips. It will only work correctly with a select few brands, so you can not just use anything you want, like it should.

They had sold a bunch of them and gotten so many complaints back that they did a thorough test to determine which brands would work, and unfortunately only a handful were ok. It ended up they had to carry one particular brand of screws just for the DWC, besides their normal line up, which had a lot more options.

According to them, the problem lay in the fact that with normal screw guns the motor starts spinning directly when you push the trigger, but with the DWC it doesn't start up until you engage the tip on the material also. Sounds like Festool was trying to save some battery life with a compatibilty issue as the result.

Well, we can't have that. Looks like it'll be a second DeWalt, because the one we have works fine with everything we throw at it.

 

[Spandex]

Do you remember which screws are compatible?

I have an old DWC which I bought used (very, very used, but at a bargain price) for a specific job, but it’s not worth selling as it owes me virtually nothing and it’s pretty beaten up. I’ve had misfire issues with some screws but never really gave it a lot of thought.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Do you remember which screws are compatible?

I have an old DWC which I bought used (very, very used, but at a bargain price) for a specific job, but it’s not worth selling as it owes me virtually nothing and it’s pretty beaten up. I’ve had misfire issues with some screws but never really gave it a lot of thought.

No, sorry, I didn't look at the brand at all. I had to buy a lot of materials there, and we only discussed the DWC for a few minutes before moving on to collecting the rest I needed. And our Dutch brands are probably different from yours. Many stores here also carry their own brands, most of it probably all comes from the same factory in China, but in a different box.

 

[live4ever]

Do you remember which screws are compatible?

I have an old DWC which I bought used (very, very used, but at a bargain price) for a specific job, but it’s not worth selling as it owes me virtually nothing and it’s pretty beaten up. I’ve had misfire issues with some screws but never really gave it a lot of thought.

I use Senco screws FWIW.  Work fine.

 

[Spandex]

No, sorry, I didn't look at the brand at all. I had to buy a lot of materials there, and we only discussed the DWC for a few minutes before moving on to collecting the rest I needed. And our Dutch brands are probably different from yours. Many stores here also carry their own brands, most of it probably all comes from the same factory in China, but in a different box.

Thanks anyway.

I use Senco screws FWIW.  Work fine.

Good to know, thanks. They’re widely available here, so I might grab a pack to stick in with the tool, because I know I’ll have forgotten this conversation by the time I next need to use it.