DIY Fully Articulating Boom Arm you can make to use with Festool products

[ChuckM]

Don't jump into any conclusion before you do a proper research. There's bad blood between them as shown in another thread, and there're often two sides to a story.

Absolutely there's bad blood, and if you watch Finish Carpentry's video I posted above, you'll see exactly why there's bad blood. Joel (aka Martin Felder) did the same thing to me that he had done to Finish Carpentry a few months earlier. I've since seen the photologs; he took dozens of pictures before hanging my boom arm on his wall, and even showed it fully functional before faking the damage he later claimed.

I didn't go looking for that video. Someone that knew the story sent it to me.

Regarding faking damage, this is what he presented:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...ineering-8-foot-boom-arm/msg606759/#msg606759

If you have proof in your possession that he was faking damage on your product, I suggest that you start a new thread to share it to protect your reputation.

 

[JeromeM]

Don't jump into any conclusion before you do a proper research. There's bad blood between them as shown in another thread, and there're often two sides to a story.

Absolutely there's bad blood, and if you watch Finish Carpentry's video I posted above, you'll see exactly why there's bad blood. Joel (aka Martin Felder) did the same thing to me that he had done to Finish Carpentry a few months earlier. I've since seen the photologs; he took dozens of pictures before hanging my boom arm on his wall, and even showed it fully functional before faking the damage he later claimed.

I didn't go looking for that video. Someone that knew the story sent it to me.

Regarding faking damage, this is what he presented:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...ineering-8-foot-boom-arm/msg606759/#msg606759

If you have proof in your possession that he was faking damage on your product, I suggest that you start a new thread to share it to protect your reputation.

FWIW Rick has a long history of producing excellent well engineered items as well as the contributions in making superb manuals for some products. MF nothing very much and a change of account so that anything before 2019 is hidden for some reason.

From the other thread, if the pictures were of the boom arm on the delivery truck as it arrived it should have been refused as it shows a patently damaged container and that would be clearly the responsibility of the carrier. With an item that costs as much as this does a shipment in anything like the condition shown should never be accepted.

That the shipment was accepted and the arm modified suggests that MF is to some extent  at least (if not completely) responsible. Once a shipment is accepted it becomes much more difficult to claim against the carrier’s insurance.

So Rick (specially because of the other video) is far more believable. FWIW there have been no details given of the “damage”

 

[Rick Christopherson]

That the shipment was accepted and the arm modified suggests that MF is to some extent  at least (if not completely) responsible. Once a shipment is accepted it becomes much more difficult to claim against the carrier’s insurance.

So Rick (specially because of the other video) is far more believable. FWIW there have been no details given of the “damage”

No, that picture isn't from the original shipment that MF claimed was damaged. That picture is not in dispute, but UPS has no answer how such severe damage could have occurred.

Here are Joel's pictures showing the original shipment and its condition. You can see that it s mounted on his wall and everything is straight and working fine. He had an even better picture of the boom arm mounted (posted to the Felder's Group website), but he deleted it because it showed that the arm was working perfectly before he started this whole thing.

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[Rick Christopherson]

MF nothing very much and a change of account so that anything before 2019 is hidden for some reason.

I think you added this after I started writing my response. Joel has two forum accounts. One under his real name (that apparently I am not permitted to say) and this one under his alias Martin Felder.

 

[JeromeM]

I can only add that those pictures show the quality I have come to associate with the work and products of yours that I know. Though mess ups can happen I would expect that they would be accepted (once documented) and corrected, as seems to have been the case.

There certainly seems to be something missing if not downright economically of the truth from the side of your non/ex-customer.

I had not seen your Prometheus before your post but having seen it I agree that MF is doing a virtually complete copy. Plagiarism should be called out and this is blatant.

It is not a very well thought out one and is making design errors because the materials used will almost certainly be considerably heavier

Versions of a design are all part of woodwork. My own 3 metre boom arm is influenced by others that I’ve seen pictures of. Is it sufficiently different to claim it as totally original? No, definitely not.

It is possibly sufficiently different to be worth a picture or 2 but it isn’t articulated so probably not for this thread. It is certainly very very much less expensive to build but lacks the elegance of your product.

 

[Banana]

Snip.
Sucks that he only purchased yours for a closer look and had no intention of keeping it. ("None stranger than folk"). 

Don't jump into any conclusion before you do a proper research. There's bad blood between them as shown in another thread, and there're often two sides to a story.

I don't know any of them, but the dispute isn't as simple as what you made it out to be.

Yup, definitely guilty of zero research in this case - didn't even know about Festool's ASA-5000 either, lol.  (work load has doubled with events, little time to play catch up on forums). 
An assessment of copying was made earlier, so now I'm curious who's came first between the Prometheus & Fest ASA5000 (guessing Fest's?) and how do they significantly differ in engineering?

 

[FestitaMakool]

There’s really nothing especially new about a boom arm, Festool have had these for a good while.
There’s also an excellent hub for dust extraction, electrical power outlets, as well as compressed air. Festo or Festool is old in the game in pneumatics.
Just recently I spotted an ASA 6000 for sale here, pre-owned, nice but costly.

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[ChuckM]

That first image with all the hoses hanging loose looks eerie, like some kind of an alien.

 

[Svar]

No, he didn't put an ounce of thought into it. He literally stole everything from me after having one of my boom arms in his possession to take photographs of it.

I had not seen your Prometheus before your post but having seen it I agree that MF is doing a virtually complete copy. Plagiarism should be called out and this is blatant.

Disgruntled customers are a pain, but I wouldn't go there. MF is not selling it, not even plans, just documenting the build. While I'm sure Rick's product is superb and I commend his efforts to bring it to the market at a reasonable price, his is a copy of Festool ASA boom arm, down to the geared pivot mechanism. I doubt there is a patent on that and I won't be surprised if the design is 100 years old. So, let's leave it at that.
I also wish people settled their commercial disputes privately to not needlessly jeopardize livelihood of others.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Disgruntled customers are a pain, but I wouldn't go there. MF is not selling it, not even plans, just documenting the build. While I'm sure Rick's product is superb and I commend his efforts to bring it to the market at a reasonable price, his is a copy of Festool ASA boom arm, down to the geared pivot mechanism. I doubt there is a patent on that and I won't be surprised if the design is 100 years old. So, let's leave it at that.
I also wish people settled their commercial disputes privately to not needlessly jeopardize livelihood of others.

You're absolutely right. That's why I have been super careful to not complain about him "copying my design", because my boom arm is a derivation of the ASA5000, and I have openly stated that from back when I released it. I made significant improvements to the design, though.

What he did do, however, is buy it, photograph it, and then return it with the intention of making his own. Maybe not at first, but before the transaction was complete/dead, he specifically told me in an email that he was going to try to build his own. (I didn't know he had so many photographs of it that he was planning to duplicate it, until later.) But that's not even my complaint, nor the complaint of "Finish Carpentry's". It's how he deals with his vendors. He's a urological surgeon and lives in a 2.8 million dollar house, and he treats his vendors this way...that's the problem. He's intentionally trying to harm the small businesses that he deals with.

The original problem was a $3 part that I was preparing to ship to him, regardless whether he damaged it or it was damaged in shipping. It was trivial. However, as exactly mirroring what Finish Carpentry said in his video, I couldn't communicate with the guy because he constantly went off on tangents about other topics, like how good he was at building shipping crates. Instead of communicating about how to replace the part, he returned the whole boom arm without a return authorization. It went downhill from there.

 

[semenza]

I think we've had about enough boom arm drama.  In this topic and the other(s). If there are parties involved that have a beef with each other they need to take it private  and or take it to court. Not play it out on the forum.

Seth