Do I need a table saw in my shop?

[exchanged1]

I am in process of setting up my first shop as a newbie woodworker.  So far, I have Grizzly 14" band saw, Delta 6" jointer, Bosch 10" SCMS, DeWalt model 735 planer.

Also purchased a Domino w/ CT22 dust extractor from Bob Marino (super guy).

I have always heard the table saw is the essential tool for a decent woodworking shop.  I have never owned one, and have always seen it as a very dangerous piece of equipment for me, as a 59 year old hobbiest who is not the most coordinated person you will ever meet.  I have been waiting for the SawStop contractor's model to come out, since I couldn't see putting $4,000.00 in the cabinet version.  Now I find out the contractor version, with the accessories I would want, and SawStop's exhorbitant shipping charges, will run me @ $2,700.00!

Am I crazy to think that I might not need a table saw if I go with nicely accessorized MFT/3, TS 55EQ, and assorted guide rails?

Again, I am raw when it comes to woodworking.  I hope to evenutally build a few basic mission style pieces of furniture, headboards for a couple of existing beds, the Dominy Clock built by Norm Abrams (link below), and miscellaneous items such as small boxes, simple toys for the grandchildren, etc.

I suppose a particular concern is the accuracy that will be needed for angle (miter) cuts, repeatability of dimensional cuts that might need to be repeated after the inital set-up on the MFT/3 has been changed.

If I need a table saw, no problem.  I'm just curious about what I might be able to accomplish with Festool's help (and the help of this excellent forum) without a table saw.

Thanks for any responses you might provide me.

http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?0705 

 

[Dan Lyke]

I'm doing fairly well so far, the only place I miss a table saw is for longer rips: I've been doing baseboards and ripping a bunch of maple for cabinet frames, and I'm still working on the right combination of jigs and technique to cut those quickly and easily. The baseboards are longer than my two rails together, so not only do I have to run back and forth to get both ends precise, I have to move the rail in the middle of the rip that doesn't yet have a reference edge. The cabinet frame pieces tend to be shorter, so I clamp the rails to another piece of wood that provides a stop at the right distance, those go much easier.

I'm also working on my miter accuracy with the MFT 1080, I did a fairly careful measure to put a diagonal mark for the rail, and eyeballing to that mark works fairly well 'til I get out to wide (5-6") in hard wood (eastern maple). A few hair's width difference by the time all 4 miters of that panel come together is visible (which is essentially the error in 45 degrees at, what, 4 times 5-6", thus 1/64 at 24" is visible), so I'll have to fine tune that as I get started on my cabinet doors. But if I have to get another tool to make that happen, I think it'll be an SCMS (or that new Bridge City thingamabob, drool).

 

[Cannuck]

I really do believe that the table saw will prove invaluable to you.  I have a Bosch contractor table saw (4100), and the TS75 with guide rail.  I find that for ripping thin pieces (i.e. under 6"), the table saw is the only way to go.  The MFT (1080), rail and TS75 do not work well for ripping thin pieces at all.  Any piece that is thinner than the thickness of the rail, and I don't have the confidence in the rail setup accurately getting repeat cuts.

A table saw will readily allow you to set the fence to a thin rail or stile width, and consistently rip away.

If you want to go with a MFT, TS55/75 and rails, I would suggest that you also purchase the MFS router guide.  I've seen some setups with Jerry Work or Brice Burrell (sorry can't remember who exactly), where they used the MFS to create an auxiliary fence for cutting short and thin pieces.  I  don't have an MFS to comment on its effectiveness.

I have to say, as a person who used to be terrified of working with tablesaws, I've come to feel comfortable with my saw.  I always work with the splitter, anit-kickback claws and guard in place.  Follow good safety procedures (see TheWoodWhisper Safety Week videos for advice on safe operation of bench equipment).  The newer Bosch is even safer, as it has a riving knife and a better saw guard.

That being said, I always feel safer working with my TS75 and rail.  Hopefully its not a false sense of security.

All this to be saying, I'd recommend both if you can afford it.  If not, buy the table saw first.  IMO, table saw, jointer and planer are essential.  All the rest is gravy (and if its Festool, very rich, tasty gravy at that!)

 

[Dan Clermont]

I've never owned a tablesaw and probably won't get one until my shop gets bigger.

I've been able to get by with a bandsaw, TS 55, and a some handplanes (recently I purchase a jointer / planer combo machine)

I too appreciate safety and if I was to buy a tablesaw it would most likely be a sliding table European saw like the Felder or Minimax. Also like the sawstop and hear nothing but high praise from thos that own one

Dan Clermont

 

[joraft]

... I always feel safer working with my TS75 and rail. 

I do too, especially with larger pieces such as full sized panels.

I also have a table saw plus the TS75/guide rail setup. I wouldn't want to be without either one, but if space or finances are an issue, I could see the Festool setup doing nearly everything the tablesaw will.

John

 

[Frank Pellow]

Here is how I answered the same question earlier this week on the Canadian Woodworking forum:

I have a Festool circular saw (a TS 75) and and MFT. Actually I have two MFTs -a MFT 800 and an MFT 1080. I also have a large 4x8 collapsable cutting table.

I find that I can get by without a table saw and that is how I operate when working offsite. But, I do have a table saw (a General 650) in my shop and can do many things (such as repeat cuts) faster on it.

I have a Festool router which I also use on the guide rail and that's how I make all my dados and rabbets. This is true even when I am in my shop with a table saw available.

 

[Brad Evans]

As much as I like my TS55, guide rails, and MFTs, I can't imagine giving up my cabinet saw.  Essential for me...

 

[The Dude]

It is my opinion that Festool allows an individual to have MUCH LESS of a table saw in their shop.  I have never recommended, or sold the TS 55/75 as a means of getting rid of the Table Saw in the shop.  As Frank has put it, and many others on the FOG for that matter, the Table Saw is much quicker when it comes ripping narrow stock (faceframes and the like).  My poor Unisaw is a horizontal work surface most of the time, but when I need to make some edging, faceframe, and general ripping of long stock, it sure is nice to have.

t

 

[colinw]

IMHO you can do with out a table saw but I would not like to !

Colin

 

[Programmergeek]

I have been using the festool stuff for most of my rips still while I had a Dewalt portable TS.  Just got a Saw Stop can't imangine life with out it now.  You will need a band saw or table saw for thin cuts no way around it.  Also things like tening jigs and stuff you can't do with festool.  So the short of it is yes you will but As I said I use the festool atf55 for rips and most cutting I just think it is safer.    

 

[Bob Marino]

This is a good question and a subject that comes up fairly often. I think you would find that the TS/75  saw and MFT would do an awful lot of tasks, with plenty of accuracy and there are ways of cutting repeatable thin strips. It just takes a lttle reading.  But out of the box the table saw is way faster at repeat cuts and offers a greater cutting capacity. Some people like to use the Festool TS 55 or 75 and have a portable ts for deeper cuts.
However, lots of people consider the ts to be the foundation of their shop.

Bob

 

[Greg_R]

I recently completed a 14ft long builtin bookcase project and never touched my table saw (wanted to give it a try).  I used the TS55 for all my plywood cuts.  I used a chopsaw for crosscutting the trim pieces.  I did try a few long thin rips with the TS55 / rail (I have a rail extension) and it was very accurate.  You just need to make sure the rail has support (not always the case for thin rips).  However, for the bulk of my rip cuts (moulding, face frames, etc.) I used a 4:1 planer/rip saw/sander/moulder combo machine.  Setting up the cut width took longer than the TS but once setup the operation was faster and safer (you essentially are using a power-feed table saw at that point).  I am a hobbiest WWer as well & I think you can get by w/o a table saw if time is not critical to you.  However, you WILL need a bandsaw at some point (that can also be used for rips and some crosscutting). 

I will be keeping my Unisaw but plan to shrink the fence significantly.  I find that I'm only using it for thin rips and repeated crosscuts (using a crosscut sled w. stops).

 

[woodshopdemos]

Well, I sold my wonderful Delta Unisaw several months ago. I did it mainly to gain some floor space, but I had also not used it for a long time...other than storing things on.

I have set up my Festool shop to do everything my older shop would do. And more pertinently, I have just set up the new MFT3 and the Kapex -- those with my 4 x 8 worktable allow me to do everything I need to do...and easier on my old body.

I know, nothing really exists without pictures, and we do use pictures a  lot. I have just taken on a new shop assistant who, with Elena, will be breaking in the new shop...coming soon.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Good for you John!  But, I doubt that I will ever get rid of my table saw.  I could make do without it, but I don't want to.

 

[clintholeman]

Nope, you don't need the expense, space or danger [SawStop excepted].  Once you start down the track without one, you'll never look back.  And, the money you save can be used for other cool FesTool tools.

 

[Sam Murdoch]

I have been in this line of work for nearly 30 years. I have had the benefit of a full scale cabinet shop with all of the biggest and best including a CNC machine, wide belt sander, bank of shapers and a very big sliding table saw. Now I am using a Bosch 4000 table saw on a Rousseau 2500 stand. That  in conjunction with my Festool TS 55, some other hand tools, a good jointer and a small thickness planer and a Makita 7-1/2" compound miter saw and I am building kitchen cabinetry and furniture that is just as good as anything that was produced in the full production shop. I believe  that the 10" little  table saw is essential. If I didn't have the TS55 I would at least have the cabinet shop size Saw Stop Saw but the Bosh is a good saw which is more than adequate with the supplement of the Festool. When I first started out I had an 8" Craftsman table saw and to this day I am still quite pleased with the work that I was able to produce on that little machine. There is nothing wrong with starting small, keeping your blades and your wit sharp and learning as you go. Read the trade mags and watch the videos and practice with what you have on hand. Norm isn't really the gold standard of woodworking. He just has a lot of nice prepaid equipment. Concentrate on your comfort level and build to experience before worrying about getting the next biggest and best piece of equipment.

 

[Dan Lyke]

I hear people saying safety is an issue with table saw's ???  Just like any woodworking machine, if You use it properly the risk of injury is minimal, especially if You are using a riving knife with overhead guard

Yep, my dad used one successfully for decades.

Now he doesn't type well any more.

Admittedly, had he been using an overhead guard he'd probably have come out of that situation better, but I'll either wait 'til I've got the room for a SawStop or a euro slider, or do without.

 

[Per Swenson]

You  are going to get as many varied responses as there are people.

Because it all depends on experience and established working methods.

As Sam noted he worked in a full shop, but now gets by with Festool and a

Bosch 4000. We have always had a table saw and now own a sawstop.

But when I run the table saw in the shop, my actual profit margin is slim.

whereas making stuff on site is the path to solvency and success.

Because of this, and trust me at first I thought this would never work,

I adapted to the learning curve of the guide rail system. MDF jigs and such,

I can cut small repetitive pieces all day long. When I was a struggling 18 year old,

this old geezer told me "Boy you need to learn to work" I thought he meant I had to get

stronger. What he really  meant was I had to become efficient.

We will never part with the table saw just as we would never part with a old family heirloom.

But the new puppy, as in Festool Guide rail system gets all the affection.

One more thing,  Mr, Lyke, try this.

Set your guide rail on one mark. Put your saw on the guide rail on the  end.

Go down and set the other end on the mark. The saw will hold the rail on the first mark.

You only walk once.

Per

 

[clintholeman]

Ahh, Per, your wisdom is becoming legend.  ;D

It isn't the tool, it's the guy [or woman] behind it. In spite of what the folks from Madison Avenue would like you to believe, it really isn't so much what you buy, as long as it is a quality tool, as learning to use what you have well.  And that usually takes some time. But then you'll have a skill, a real skill.  And with some imagination, combine your new skill and the ride gets really fun.

 

[poto]

exchanged1: For the types of projects you're envisioning, I think you could do fine without a table saw. As Dan said earlier, the band saw is a very useful tool in the shop to supplement the TS55 and MFT. I do not have a table saw, and was thrilled when I discovered Festools - they have liberated me from that need. I think that my woodworking needs are similar to yours, and I have found no need for a table saw. If I were doing this for $$, I would definitely get one. But for my amateur stuff, I'm not under a time pressure, so I can set up the MFT however I want. I love it. I also feel a lot safer around my kid when we're working together on a project.

Poto