Do we have too many tools?

[Thistleman]

I hope you noted which boxes you made and which were made by your 'competitor' so that your client knows whom to seek redress from and to call you to do the job properly when your 'competitors' boxes fail

 

[Holmz]

- I can cut faster with a circular saw and not using a rail.
- In way it is about speed, as it is usually about cost, which is about time.
- one needs to be able to look in the mirror.
- It depends if the customer was expecting to save the 20 minutes.

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

I learned early in the trade that some guys have more speed , more knowledge
are stronger , have better tools , but one thing I will be equal or better is conciseness
towards the people who hired me
I work on efficiency constantly , always willing and want to learn , always try to
improve the quality of my tools for better quality products
What I am saying is ,you are looking it two different products
Can the other carpenter produce the quality that you did ?
Does he have the tools ?
It doesn't have to be domino ?
The difference of time you performed the same task is minimal

 

[ear3]

I have the luxury of holding the following principle because carpentry is not my main source of income, but all the same I think it's a good principle:

My satisfaction with the work is the ultimate standard by which I judge

This has never failed in practice for me up to this point.  I have done work where I was less than satisfied but the client took no notice, and was perfectly happy with the job.  A couple of times my dissatisfaction was mirrored by the client.  But I have never yet done a job where I was satisfied with the quality but the client was not.

 

[tiralie]

I don't think this is about tools, but more about doing the best job you can.
Unless you are on the clock 20 minutes doesn't matter one way or another. If you are then you probably would have worked faster.
Just do the best you can with what you have.
If that was his best, and it works out that his cabinets go in without a problem, then fine. Let him talk.
If it doesn't work out for him and you can help out him 'cause you cared more or know more, or have the right tools that's good too.
At least he showed up and did his job. I know that's a low bar but plenty can't even do that.
Tim

 

[grbmds]

Whether you have too many tools or not is personal. I have bought tools that I haven't used much but was glad I had them when I needed them. I don't make furniture or build for a living so, for me, it's not about getting things done in the fastest amount of time. I can build a drawer box with pocket holes a little faster than I can build one with dominos and definitely faster than if I dovetail it using a jig and route (including setup), but each has its place. Since I do this just because I enjoy it, it is always about the results I get. I need to satisfy myself that I've picked the best method and did the best I could. Sure, I have too many tools in some people's view, but I use them when the task requires it. There is nothing wrong with doing the best job possible and certainly saving 20 minutes out of 480 isn't justification for quality to suffer. At best, he was only 4% more efficient than you (if, when you include other factors, he really was). Is that worth it? I doubt it.

 

[Birdhunter]

Woodworking is a serious hobby for me that includes an occasional commission piece. I sometimes visit homes where my work resides. I want that piece to reflect my integrity and values. Saving 20 minutes and sacrificing one's integrity is a fools deal. I've never found "just good enough" to ever be really good enough.

You did it right.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

There's another angle to the answer.  Sometimes I feel I have too many tools because every tool you have needs maintenance: sharpening, cleaning, calibrating, new pads, new brushes, etc.  The other day I was thinking that lately I have spent more time maintaining my tools than I have using them.

I'm also a sucker for new gadgets.  Anyone else have a box or two of woodpecker stuff, or fastcap stuff, etc that never actually got used but sounded like a great idea?

I'm going through triage, selling tools that I haven't used in a long time.  Some are fine tools, but are used in a kind of work that
I don't do anymore.  Feels good to get some more space in the shop and a few more pesos in the wallet.

And after the triage, I will have room for some new tools! [embarassed] [big grin]

 

[mwahaha]

20 minutes can be a big deal. If we have 6 guys on site and they all take 20 minutes longer to do 1 thing every day that's 10 hours a week.

Having said that, from the sounds of it the faster guy's work wouldn't be up to my standard.

Personally i would have used a track saw but not domino.

 

[jmbfestool]

I think if you hadnt bothered with the domino which I personally dont think was nessasery for the job your where doing seeing as you face screwed the boxes together any way.  You would have done it faster and still a better job because of the rail saw and the fact you care more.

You can still get units flush using screws even after you screwed them you can tap them flush then once the glue has set it shouldnt move.

I hardly ever use dominos for screwing simple boxes together because most the time the boxes get trapped between walls or have a few screwed together making its solid and dominos would not have made the slightes bit of difference in sttength.  I just think dominoing is often to slow for basic jobs like this.

I only use my little domino when im making boxes and I dont want any face fixings on show. So I would have to glue and clamp or use pocket holes which I prefer having dominos in to keep it from sliding across.

So I dont think it its about having to many tools its about using them at the right time and palce and I personally think you used the domino at the wrong time and place

 

[shed9]

Was the other joiner working especially fast to make sure he got done first?

I suspect there will be an element of this in that he felt he had a point to prove.

To be fair and others have pointed it out, there is an aspect where you need to deliver to the price point. However as a customer I would have expected the project manager to bring the other joiner up to your spec, not the other way around.

 

[Holmz]

Was the other joiner working especially fast to make sure he got done first?

I suspect there will be an element of this in that he felt he had a point to prove.

To be fair and others have pointed it out, there is an aspect where you need to deliver to the price point. However as a customer I would have expected the project manager to bring the other joiner up to your spec, not the other way around.

Maybe he did have a point to prove, but it is still an interesting point.
Most people do not value expertise, intelligence, skill, wisdom.

EDIT> political comment removed.

 

[Scorpion]

PRIDE.

Sounds like you take more pride in your work then he does. 

Eric

Eric's on point.  Pride can have all kinds of side effects which can all have an impact of a minute or two here or there - double measuring your cut lines, re-checking the design specs, making sure your fly is up.  20 minutes is squat.  Gotta compare every task in its entirety not just cutting and screwing.

The stat I'd be interested in is how much work do you vs he get, how many turn into return customers, who had a cleaner presentation?  Presentation matters.

If any or all of that cost you 20 minutes sir, you kicked his butt all day.

Edit:  specifically to the OP's question - when having a lot of tools enables a lot of capability then I do not believe you can have too many tools as long as you use them.  Even duplicates make sense in certain situations/scenarios. 

 

[jimbo51]

Holmz said - I can cut faster with a circular saw and not using a rail.

Maybe you have a slightly better than average eye hand coordination or steadier nerves that allows you to cut an equally straight line faster without using a rail. Practice makes perfect, but there are differences in natural abilities that can come into play also.

There used to be a woman in a local community theater workshop who insisted on making long cuts in plywood using a circular saw freehand. Her cuts were only marginally faster than using a rail, but they certainly were nowhere near as straight. I think she was letting her pride in her carpentry skills get in the way of doing better work. She was not a professional carpenter.

In this regard, Festool could make some videos showing the difference in time it takes to make various cuts using the HK saws vs regular circular saw and a speed square or other hand held guide. I would suggest contests at wood shows, but someone might try too hard with freehand and injure themselves. Festool might get sued etc etc etc.

 

[Stone Message]

Holmz said - I can cut faster with a circular saw and not using a rail.

Maybe you have a slightly better...

....I would suggest contests at wood shows, but someone might try too hard with freehand and injure themselves. Festool might get sued etc etc etc.

Do not worry - I am hoping the make a new video about woodworking injuries and a consultant plastic surgeon will be taking the lead. He gets a lots of woodworking customers and at least one severed finger a week. I believe it is circular saws and table saws just ahead of planning machines. With luck the work will be complete by the summer.

Peter

 

[shed9]

Maybe he did have a point to prove, but it is still an interesting point.

I'm not dismissing his point, merely stating that it's possible it wasn't a fair time comparison.

Most people do not value expertise, intelligence, skill, wisdom.

Fair point.

EDIT> Political comment removed

 

[Holmz]

Holmz said - I can cut faster with a circular saw and not using a rail.

Maybe you have a slightly better...

....I would suggest contests at wood shows, but someone might try too hard with freehand and injure themselves. Festool might get sued etc etc etc.

Do not worry - I am hoping the make a new video about woodworking injuries and a consultant plastic surgeon will be taking the lead. He gets a lots of woodworking customers and at least one severed finger a week. I believe it is circular saws and table saws just ahead of planning machines. With luck the work will be complete by the summer.

Peter

[Edited to remove a bad tone]
[member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member]
I not advocating circus acts, but pointing to the fact that 4 decades ago it was a table or circular saw. There were no TrackSaws in the US.
People still push them through wood daily.
I am unsure about Europe and the UK, but it is not uncommon in the US to see circular saws. They are ubiquitous.

And while I can cut a piece of wood faster with a circular saw, it usually looks like it.
I binned the last circular saw after a kickback blew its arbor bearing to 'el-n-back (Protool).
... plus I now use a jig saw to get pallets broken up for the pot belly stove.

 

[demographic]

So the customer now has a rougher product and he got it a whole 2.49% faster.
Wow, he'll be chuffed to bits with that.

 

[andy5405]

I think the answer for most Foggers is that at times we do have too many tools, simply because we're tool addicts. If it's a hobby it's not a problem, if it's your living then too much gear can over complicate things. There's a balance between having the perfect tool/fixing for every job and just turning up and getting on with it with what you have, whilst the other guy is still unpacking his van.

So many successful people over the years have taught me that doing a job to 95% is the path to success, provided that the spec has been met or exceeded. 100% should be reserved for hobbyists, professionals will always have different time pressures and a finished job often trumps an ongoing perfect job.

I may have explained all that badly but I think I know what I'm getting at. Re the people that say in this instance yes to the tracksaw and no to the Domino I tend to agree. That way the OP could have kept everyone happy and finished 60-90 minutes earlier with a smug expression on his face.  Perfection should be reserved for fairy tales.

 

[Laminator]

I get to see a lot more "skilsaw" cuts than I care to. I have disassembled many crooked objects built by folks who were proud of how fast they got it made.  I would almost like to buy them a track saw to save me time, but  I just charge the fire out of them for rework and buy more tools for me [big grin].  If the customer is satisfied with crooked, they need to hire someone beside me, and, YES I have too many tools... almost.