Domino 700/500

[TXFIVEO]

The old rule of get the biggest one possible and use it for the smaller jobs too is what I would follow.  While I typically use it for large doors I do occasionally use it for furniture where the 500 is needed.  But having the ability of the 700 to do MOST of what the 500 can do (Seneca adapter, etc) it is a no brainer for me.  The jump to the 700 would pay itself off in one good job. 

 

[Motor]

Thanks everyone. I bought a 500. I will be using it with one of my Festool vacuums.

After you get some driving time in, let us know your thoughts. [smile]

Will do!

 

[Birdhunter]

Smart move, but reserve a workshop space for the 700 you will add at some time.

 

[Mario Turcot]

[member=63158]Motor[/member] the one tip I can give you from my own experience is about setup. Make sure you are comfortable with the tool and the position you adopt each time you bore a hole. The width selector is a nice feature but do not rely 100% on it to avoid deception  [eek]

One more tip, plunge slow like very slow at the beginning. Depending of the wood density you will have to adjust. There is a very short learning curve just don't skip it.  [tongue]

 

[Jim_in_PA]

One more tip, plunge slow like very slow at the beginning. Depending of the wood density you will have to adjust. T

^^ This is one of the most important tips that anyone can receive relative to using the Domino system. Precision comes from letting the cutter do its work without stress. I actually "tested" that out when I first got my 700XL and it's absolutely, spot-on true.

 

[grbmds]

Just a quick tip about centering and plunging in 3/4" that at least I found out about the hard way. The board you're plunging into must hang over the edge of the table or be clamped down on top of another board for clearance. If not, there isn't enough clearance for the bottom of the Domino joiner to center the slot top to bottom. The result will be a slot dangerously high on the edge of the board because the bottom end of the Domino will be resting on the table. Don't know if I explained clearly, and I suppose it seems obvious to some, but it wasn't to me (or at least I didn't think about it the first time and forgot one other time after not using the Domino for awhile while in a hurry).

 

[Motor]

The old rule of get the biggest one possible and use it for the smaller jobs too is what I would follow.  While I typically use it for large doors I do occasionally use it for furniture where the 500 is needed.  But having the ability of the 700 to do MOST of what the 500 can do (Seneca adapter, etc) it is a no brainer for me.  The jump to the 700 would pay itself off in one good job. 

Well, I changed my mind. I got the 500 but exchanged it for the 700. I never used the 500, but once I had it in my hand and saw how small the cutters and dominos were (4 and 5 especially) I decided to go with the 700. I rarely make small projects and I just felt like the 700 would give me more versatility for bigger jobs in the long run. I also felt like it has a few features that are better than the 500. Just thought I'd let everyone know. I appreciate all the input. I may buy the Seneca adapter if I feel I need dominos smaller than 8mm. Will let everyone know once I start working with this tool.

 

[Stone Message]

The DF700 can be used with the DF500 connector system. The DF700 can do a 10 mm cut height (at the centre of the cutter). It can also do a 15 mm and 25 mm depth of cut. Therefore the only difference is the use of a 25 mm depth of cut instead of the 28 mm cut when using the DF500. When doing a pair of opposing shelves into an upright it will be necessary to check the length of the two dominos that go in from either side at the middle of the joint.

The DF500 connector system can be used on panels down to 18 mm and so no problems should arise

Peter

 

[James Carriere]

[member=63158]Motor[/member] the one tip I can give you from my own experience is about setup. Make sure you are comfortable with the tool and the position you adopt each time you bore a hole. The width selector is a nice feature but do not rely 100% on it to avoid deception  [eek]

One more tip, plunge slow like very slow at the beginning. Depending of the wood density you will have to adjust. There is a very short learning curve just don't skip it.  [tongue]

[member=63158]Motor[/member] - to add to Mario's suggestion about technique and the short but necessary learning curve, I learned with deeper depths of cut with the 700 to hold the machine in place and pause for a half second after the cutter has finished its cut and has been extracted from the mortise to allow a moment for the CT to remove the remainder of the sawdust completely or your joints might not fully close on glue-up.  Also, like several members have mentioned the Seneca adaptors work very well with the 700 and +1 that thinner stock must overhanging the edge of your bench so the machine is cutting at the planned depth in the workpiece.

 

[Mario Turcot]

with the 700 to hold the machine in place and pause for a half second after the cutter has finished its cut and has been extracted from the mortise to allow a moment for the CT to remove the remainder of the sawdust completely or your joints might not fully close on glue-up. 

Also true with the DF 500  [big grin]

 

[Motor]

View attachment 1

The old rule of get the biggest one possible and use it for the smaller jobs too is what I would follow.  While I typically use it for large doors I do occasionally use it for furniture where the 500 is needed.  But having the ability of the 700 to do MOST of what the 500 can do (Seneca adapter, etc) it is a no brainer for me.  The jump to the 700 would pay itself off in one good job. 

Well, I changed my mind. I got the 500 but exchanged it for the 700. I never used the 500, but once I had it in my hand and saw how small the cutters and dominos were (4 and 5 especially) I decided to go with the 700. I rarely make small projects and I just felt like the 700 would give me more versatility for bigger jobs in the long run. I also felt like it has a few features that are better than the 500. Just thought I'd let everyone know. I appreciate all the input. I may buy the Seneca adapter if I feel I need dominos smaller than 8mm. Will let everyone know once I start working with this tool.

Firt project with 700 turned out great. (Don't know why the photo is upside down...)

 

[CirclDigital]

This is the size project the 500 was made for .

I had to make a choice about which machine to buy as well, and also decided to go for the XL. But the reality is that for all except the biggest projects the 500 works just fine and for most is the better option.

Now that I have the XL and the Seneca adapter so I can also use it with the smaller cutters there still are disadvantages that I whish I had known about sooner. The most annoying one is that due to the use of the 14mm cutter the center of the cutter is at 15mm from the bottom/fence. With the 500 that distance is 10mm.

And 15mm’s is a pain for a lot of projects where the material is less than 30mm thick. Whenever I can I try to use the bottom of the machine as the reference instead of the fence and 15mm’s often is too much. The same when you are doing mitres where starting 15mm from the edge often means you cannot make the cut with any significant depth.

So in addition to the Senica adapter you probably will also need the Senica shim and then you need to use the fence instead of having a choice.

I still like the XL but I whish I had known about this....

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I think the previous poster sums it up well.

I don't get how you can judge the merit of a machine by looking at the two _smallest_ cutter sizes in a range from 4 to 10mm.

I think it is better to look at the intended use of the machine and then consider what else what the machine might be used for.

I started out with the DF500 from the year it came out on the market and I can't even remember half of what I have been able to do with it. When they came out with the 4mm cutter (it wasn't available for the first couple of years) it solved a shortcoming for me and it has made the machine even more useful.

The major drawback with the DF500 has in my opinion been the limited depth of cut/plunge but apart from that the range of applications is wider with the DF500.

I did take a few long hard looks at the XL and when I got around to getting it I had two projects that helped finance and where the DF700 was in the comfort zone whereas the DF500 would simply not be able to see me through.

After those two projects I have used the 700 on two more projects - both could have been done with the 500 though. After that the 700 has had a dry spell whereas the 500 sees more use - for me it simply more practical to use for both shelves, sheetgoods and most furniture.

Have been thinking of selling the 700 but decided to keep it for a while longer. Also got me a Lamello Zeta P2 recently and that machine takes a stab at the 500 for many applications but the 700 is a different beast. Could I do without the 700? Yes. The 500? Don't think I could.

Point is that all these machines might cross over slightly in specs and joining scenarios but for the most part they are different enough to warrant a thorough review of the _needs_ more than the wants and wishes.  I can't even rank these three individually as one being more important or better than the others.

For usage over time it would be:

1 Domino 500
2 Lamello Zeta P2
3 Domino XL

In any other scenario the rankings can be different and ranking them is a bit futile since they all cater to slightly different needs. I might as well put it "if I could only have one" - or keep one - it would be the Domino DF500.  But, I get to keep them all for now. The only one hanging on as a "just in case" machine is the DF700 though.

I could have tossed the Mafell DD40 into the mix, I did briefly toy with one I bought used but I find the DD40 too similar to the DF500 and I prefer the DF500. What little I missed out with the DF500 I find I get with the Lamello. Not knocking the DD40 though.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Great post Henrik!

 

[l0pht]

Can you use the 500 on larger stock? I want to buy one for cabinets, shelves and other items the 700 can’t handle but also want to build dinning room tables. The tables would be 12/4 lumber. Can you double up the dominos jointing wood? I image the glue joints are strong enough and the domino at that point is just being used for alignment? Sorry if this is a dumb question. I can’t justify both at this point in time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Michael Kellough]

Absolutely!

Check out the photo in reply #6 in this recent thread
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festo...ents/easy-domino-enhancement-for-miter-joint/

The photo is educational in more ways than one. Look closely and you’ll see that one row of mortises is for a thicker Domino than the other. Further, the row closer to the outside of the joint will use smaller Dominos. This is because the thicker Dominos are also longer so the mortise for them might intersect the surface of the wood.

 

[Corey P.]

I originally bought the 500, thinking it would do all I needed.  I quickly realized that was a mistake, and returned the 500 for 700.  Purchased the Seneca kit and all has been great since.  Really the Seneca kit gives you the 500 as well.  it's win-win for the consumer. The 700 is a bit large, and quite a bit heavier, but the ability to do much larger mortises comes in handy.  I make a lot of furniture with it, and need the large mortise options. 

 

[Dick Mahany]

I think the previous poster sums it up well.

I don't get how you can judge the merit of a machine by looking at the two _smallest_ cutter sizes in a range from 4 to 10mm.

I think it is better to look at the intended use of the machine and then consider what else what the machine might be used for.

I started out with the DF500 from the year it came out on the market and I can't even remember half of what I have been able to do with it. When they came out with the 4mm cutter (it wasn't available for the first couple of years) it solved a shortcoming for me and it has made the machine even more useful.

The major drawback with the DF500 has in my opinion been the limited depth of cut/plunge but apart from that the range of applications is wider with the DF500.

I did take a few long hard looks at the XL and when I got around to getting it I had two projects that helped finance and where the DF700 was in the comfort zone whereas the DF500 would simply not be able to see me through.

After those two projects I have used the 700 on two more projects - both could have been done with the 500 though. After that the 700 has had a dry spell whereas the 500 sees more use - for me it simply more practical to use for both shelves, sheetgoods and most furniture.

Have been thinking of selling the 700 but decided to keep it for a while longer. Also got me a Lamello Zeta P2 recently and that machine takes a stab at the 500 for many applications but the 700 is a different beast. Could I do without the 700? Yes. The 500? Don't think I could.

Point is that all these machines might cross over slightly in specs and joining scenarios but for the most part they are different enough to warrant a thorough review of the _needs_ more than the wants and wishes.  I can't even rank these three individually as one being more important or better than the others.

For usage over time it would be:

1 Domino 500
2 Lamello Zeta P2
3 Domino XL

In any other scenario the rankings can be different and ranking them is a bit futile since they all cater to slightly different needs. I might as well put it "if I could only have one" - or keep one - it would be the Domino DF500.  But, I get to keep them all for now. The only one hanging on as a "just in case" machine is the DF700 though.

I could have tossed the Mafell DD40 into the mix, I did briefly toy with one I bought used but I find the DD40 too similar to the DF500 and I prefer the DF500. What little I missed out with the DF500 I find I get with the Lamello. Not knocking the DD40 though.

Yes this !  It is all about one's needs and we are lucky to have so many options.  I will admit that I wanted the XL because I liked the ergonomics and the larger capability, but I needed the 500 for what I do and will likely do in the future.  After 3 years, I'm happy with the smaller 500 decision.  [smile]

 

[CirclDigital]

Really the Seneca kit gives you the 500 as well.

Not in my opinion.... it just gives you the ability to use the smaller cutters with the XL.

There’s more to the machines than just the cutter size. The “ buy the biggest you can afford” advice is not a good one here... and most advising to buy the XL with the adapter only tell you part of the story or haven’t used the 500 to have really experienced the diffences in actual use. That’s why I dislike the simplicity of “the XL with an adapter is just like a 500” so much...

The 500 is a lot more practical for general furniture with the 10 vs 15mm fence height. You also have no 12/28mm depth cut on the XL. Both usefull for nearly all furniture sized panels. The 500 is also a lot more nimble to handle, you can even use it one-handed....

I do like the ergonomics of my XL better than that of the 500, but in reality most people would be hard pressed to have projects that require 12/14mm domino when you can also double up with smaller 6/8/10 dominos. Nor do they need the extended depth the XL provides.

But I’m always curious on what type of furniture projects (only) the XL is to be used?

 

[sancho57]

IMO its the glue that holds a piece together. Glue something then try to break the joint with a hammer youll see the non glue area fail around the glue

So as far as dominos go, I dont us the for joint strength per se.

They are great for alignment and do add strength but its the glue/adhesive that does it. I wouldnt hesitate to use my 500 for any project. Though I would double up the dominos.

This is a simular discussion that was taking place in W/W forums when the biscuit Jointer came out. Then after its newness wore off there were articles where guys were building interior doors using biscuits (double ing them up of course). Even then the the conclusion is its the glue that holds a joint together.

Now with that being said there are many types of glue right?  Epoxy would be my choice for larger projects such as gates and interior/entry doors.

My mentor Mr. P (RIP) , who used to do high end work and even a couple of jobs for hollywood types, used to laugh when Id show him articles from rags like FWW and FHB showing how they say what is the right way to do something. He'd  tell me "Jobby you mean Ive been doing it wrong all these years?"