ROb McGilp
Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 430
Hi all,
At Lou's request I have produced a summary of the differences and “sameness” of the Leigh FMT Frame Mortise and Tenon jig and the Festool Domino. Sort of like a WW World Cup with the final between Germany and Canada. As with all wood work, everybody does things differently in different situations, so this overview must reflect my way of doing things. Fortunately, there are others ere who have experience with these tools, so we should get some good discussion. Right Mr Goch?
The Leigh FMT Jig.
I bought the Leigh FMT jig two weeks before the Domino was released in Australia as it seemed to me to be the Arab’s underpants of M&T joinery. In fact it is a beautiful beast to use. I can produce tenons and mortises of between 6mm width x 8mm x the usable depth of the longest router bit available, up to 12mm width x 115mm x usable depth of the longest router bit available.
The joints are very clean, particularly with spiral up cut bits. In addition, the relationship between mortise and tenon (gap) can be very finely adjusted. Leigh claim .001mm, but this would have to be in circumstances of known humidity, timber hydration, concentricity of router plus many other factors. Suffice it to say you can get very close.
In addition, once a board has been centred, there is no need to recenter for the next cut, meaning a substantial speed in throughput. One of the great things is the ability to process angled tenons very fast.
The jig is bench mounted which means you take the work to it and that it is restricted in making tenons in timber at a maximum length equal to the height of the cutting face above the ground. You can increase this by lifting the jig and placing it on a platform and standing on a step. In my situation I can cut at a length of 1.4 metres.
It is easy to cut tandem, trio or quadruple mortises and tenons should you wish instead of one large tenon. This seems to be Leigh’s current recommendation.
Mitred and compound mitred tenons are reasonably easy to achieve on the FMT as well
As with any complex jig, there is some set up involved, but if you note down the values for the settings, then the next run is much faster. It seems to me that most people use a certain group of M&T set ups, so there isn't a particular need to record many settings and as with any tool, familiarity leads to faster operation.
One thing though, the dust extraction is abysmal. What passes as a vacuum extraction is useless and since what comes of the up cut bits tends to fly toward the front, you can easily end up looking like a tree.
The Festool Domino.
I suspect most people are familiar with this tool, so I'll go quickly over its good and bad points (shock horror!) The more you use a Domino, the more you realise you don't need much else.
The Domino is very quick to set up. Mount bit, check height, check angle and check depth.
It is portable, so you can work on any piece regardless of length.
The Domino has excellent dust removal.
The Domino is versatile, you can use it for more than just mortises.
The Domino only has 4 set cut thicknesses, 5, 6, 8 and 10mm and the depth of cut is set at a maximum of 28mm.
The Domino was primarily developed for on site panel and staircase work, we furniture makers just decided it was ours.
Cutting compound mortises is doable with a little effort.
Set guidance pins mean that setting cuts at less than 75mm (total cut) means that an ancillary method must be used.
Differences between the two systems.
1. More set up time is required for the FMT and it is fixed to the bench while the Domino requires little set time and is mobile.
2. The Domino can perform other functions apart from straight mortise digging. Because of its method of operation along with mobility, long trenches can be achieved as well.
The FMT can provide mitred and compound mitred mortises and tenons easily (see below) and is not limited to a max of 10 and minimum of 5mm cuts. By using a different combination of bits for making the mortises and tenons and by using very small machine bits, it is possible to put a mortise and accompanying tenon into a matchstick. I have been told this also applies to making wider mortises than12mm, but I have never tried it.
The Domino is a self contained unit with a set value of variables for each cut. The FMT uses both jig and router. Each has a separate set of variables which may affect the cut and fit.
The Domino is very much at home plunging mortises into shaped chair legs (as per Tezzer’s Leg mortising jig). The FMT has real difficulty with this and works best on square timber.
I hope this is what you wanted Lou and I'm sure there are people just waiting to respond. In fact I hope so. Remember this is my view of the world, most likely the rest of the world has a contrary collective view.
I have attached some pics to show the FMT. Also I want to explain one particular case where the Domino was no use to me, though that may have changed over the last 12 months. I needed to join side rails to the front and back legs of 8 chairs. The front leg was 2’ square3 and the side rails were ¾”. On measuring up the domino (8x40) it became apparent that the end of the domino would be about 5mm (sorry for the mixed measurements) from the side edge of the front leg. No problem I thought, I'll bed it deeper into the rail. No, not going to work either.
In the end I dominoed straight tenons into the leg and cut 115mm tenons on a 9 degree angle using the FMT. After about 5 minutes of set up, I produced 16 rails with two 9 degree tenons (one pointing each way on each leg-32 tenons in 45-50 minutes and had only to mark the centre for cutting on the first rail.
Pic#1 The front of the FMT, showing the fence which is instrumental in being able to proceed from one board to the next without re-entering.
Pic#2 Shows the top with the extendable centre cross hatch and the front and side stop sets which prevent the table moving during cutting.
Pic#3 Shows the angle gauge. Combining a change in angle on the front fence with a change in angle here gives a compound mortise or tenon.
Pic#4 Shows one of the 9 degree rails I mentioned earlier.
Pic#5 Is just a beautiful piece of Red Gum
Regards,
RedAlf
At Lou's request I have produced a summary of the differences and “sameness” of the Leigh FMT Frame Mortise and Tenon jig and the Festool Domino. Sort of like a WW World Cup with the final between Germany and Canada. As with all wood work, everybody does things differently in different situations, so this overview must reflect my way of doing things. Fortunately, there are others ere who have experience with these tools, so we should get some good discussion. Right Mr Goch?
The Leigh FMT Jig.
I bought the Leigh FMT jig two weeks before the Domino was released in Australia as it seemed to me to be the Arab’s underpants of M&T joinery. In fact it is a beautiful beast to use. I can produce tenons and mortises of between 6mm width x 8mm x the usable depth of the longest router bit available, up to 12mm width x 115mm x usable depth of the longest router bit available.
The joints are very clean, particularly with spiral up cut bits. In addition, the relationship between mortise and tenon (gap) can be very finely adjusted. Leigh claim .001mm, but this would have to be in circumstances of known humidity, timber hydration, concentricity of router plus many other factors. Suffice it to say you can get very close.
In addition, once a board has been centred, there is no need to recenter for the next cut, meaning a substantial speed in throughput. One of the great things is the ability to process angled tenons very fast.
The jig is bench mounted which means you take the work to it and that it is restricted in making tenons in timber at a maximum length equal to the height of the cutting face above the ground. You can increase this by lifting the jig and placing it on a platform and standing on a step. In my situation I can cut at a length of 1.4 metres.
It is easy to cut tandem, trio or quadruple mortises and tenons should you wish instead of one large tenon. This seems to be Leigh’s current recommendation.
Mitred and compound mitred tenons are reasonably easy to achieve on the FMT as well
As with any complex jig, there is some set up involved, but if you note down the values for the settings, then the next run is much faster. It seems to me that most people use a certain group of M&T set ups, so there isn't a particular need to record many settings and as with any tool, familiarity leads to faster operation.
One thing though, the dust extraction is abysmal. What passes as a vacuum extraction is useless and since what comes of the up cut bits tends to fly toward the front, you can easily end up looking like a tree.
The Festool Domino.
I suspect most people are familiar with this tool, so I'll go quickly over its good and bad points (shock horror!) The more you use a Domino, the more you realise you don't need much else.
The Domino is very quick to set up. Mount bit, check height, check angle and check depth.
It is portable, so you can work on any piece regardless of length.
The Domino has excellent dust removal.
The Domino is versatile, you can use it for more than just mortises.
The Domino only has 4 set cut thicknesses, 5, 6, 8 and 10mm and the depth of cut is set at a maximum of 28mm.
The Domino was primarily developed for on site panel and staircase work, we furniture makers just decided it was ours.
Cutting compound mortises is doable with a little effort.
Set guidance pins mean that setting cuts at less than 75mm (total cut) means that an ancillary method must be used.
Differences between the two systems.
1. More set up time is required for the FMT and it is fixed to the bench while the Domino requires little set time and is mobile.
2. The Domino can perform other functions apart from straight mortise digging. Because of its method of operation along with mobility, long trenches can be achieved as well.
The FMT can provide mitred and compound mitred mortises and tenons easily (see below) and is not limited to a max of 10 and minimum of 5mm cuts. By using a different combination of bits for making the mortises and tenons and by using very small machine bits, it is possible to put a mortise and accompanying tenon into a matchstick. I have been told this also applies to making wider mortises than12mm, but I have never tried it.
The Domino is a self contained unit with a set value of variables for each cut. The FMT uses both jig and router. Each has a separate set of variables which may affect the cut and fit.
The Domino is very much at home plunging mortises into shaped chair legs (as per Tezzer’s Leg mortising jig). The FMT has real difficulty with this and works best on square timber.
I hope this is what you wanted Lou and I'm sure there are people just waiting to respond. In fact I hope so. Remember this is my view of the world, most likely the rest of the world has a contrary collective view.
I have attached some pics to show the FMT. Also I want to explain one particular case where the Domino was no use to me, though that may have changed over the last 12 months. I needed to join side rails to the front and back legs of 8 chairs. The front leg was 2’ square3 and the side rails were ¾”. On measuring up the domino (8x40) it became apparent that the end of the domino would be about 5mm (sorry for the mixed measurements) from the side edge of the front leg. No problem I thought, I'll bed it deeper into the rail. No, not going to work either.
In the end I dominoed straight tenons into the leg and cut 115mm tenons on a 9 degree angle using the FMT. After about 5 minutes of set up, I produced 16 rails with two 9 degree tenons (one pointing each way on each leg-32 tenons in 45-50 minutes and had only to mark the centre for cutting on the first rail.
Pic#1 The front of the FMT, showing the fence which is instrumental in being able to proceed from one board to the next without re-entering.
Pic#2 Shows the top with the extendable centre cross hatch and the front and side stop sets which prevent the table moving during cutting.
Pic#3 Shows the angle gauge. Combining a change in angle on the front fence with a change in angle here gives a compound mortise or tenon.
Pic#4 Shows one of the 9 degree rails I mentioned earlier.
Pic#5 Is just a beautiful piece of Red Gum
Regards,
RedAlf
