Domino end stops

[Brice Burrell]

Dan, Festool USA has Jerry and Rick write manuals because Festool Germany doesn't care too much about our petty little problems like not knowing how to properly use their very expensive power tools.

 

[Dan Clermont]

Dan, Festool USA has Jerry and Rick write manuals because Festool Germany doesn't care too much about our petty little problems like not knowing how to properly use their very expensive power tools.

Hi Brice,

Maybe I mis-spoke but that was my point exactly. Demo's on the LR-32 such as yours and Mirko's along with your excellent pictorial on the MFS help people understand the products better....

My background in woodworking is very different from most of my woodworking friends I never had anybody train me to build a shop around a tablesaw. I also don't have a very large shop so for me the Festool "European style shop" built around the MFT works well. Will I own a tablesaw someday? I somehow doubt it but I may own a combo machine

Dan Clermont

 

[Dixon Peer]

Dan, Festool USA has Jerry and Rick write manuals because Festool Germany doesn't care too much about our petty little problems like not knowing how to properly use their very expensive power tools.

You assign a level of hubris and arrogance to the owners of Festool and the German people in general that I don't think they deserve.  Festool (Festo when I first bought them) makes excellent tools, but I don't think they would divorce themselves from the largest market in the world (USA) by being stupidly cocky.

We are certainly as able to use their wonderful tools as well as anyone, anywhere.  Maybe someday, we'll get back into competition with them on a quality/quality basis.  Their success with really good tools AND high prices should open some eyes here I think.

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Dixon, I didn't mean to assign any level of hubris or arrogance to Festool owners or German people. I was commenting about Festool Germany's unwillingness to provide better documentation for there tools they sell here. This isn't my opinion it come from Christian's post right here on FOG. Customers here wanted better information for the tools, when Christian asked Festool Germany to help they weren't interested since the rest of the world was not having this problem.

  While the US is a very large market for tools in general, we are not Festool's largest market. Until we make up a larger percentage of Festool's worldwide sales we aren't going to get Festool Germany's full attention.

  Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intension.

 

[Dan Clark]

I won't defend Festool's lack of documentation.  I think it's an issue.  However, regarding the Domino, please consider one rather significant point - this is version one of an arguably unique product.  It's the very first version.  Is it excellent?  IMO, yes!  Perfect?  No.

When you're trying to get the first version of a product out the door, with very little information you are constantly battling a whole series of issues including what level of quality, what features to include, the cost impact of your decisions, and the scheduling impact.  EVERY decision has both upsides and downsides.  EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE! 

So what is the right balance?  How much time would it take to design a new end stop?  How much would it cost?  How would that R&D + manufacturing changes affect the schedule?  How much business would you lose by waiting?  How much business would you GAIN by producing a better product?  These are the questions that every product manager has to make.

I've been product manager.  I.e., been there, done that, don't want to do it no more.  It ain't easy!  You sweat blood every day. 

Now consider the arguments pro and con that have been presented here.  We have the benefit of experiencing a production product and I still don't see a consensus!  If it was that easy EVERYBODY would be in agreement!  If we can't agree with lot's of real-world usage of the production product, how could a PM make perfect decisions 18-24 months ago with very little information?

I'll bet there are Festool Product managers in Germany reading this thread.  Product Managers are popping the German version of Tums trying to figure out how they could have made a better decision.

I don't blame you for being irritated that the Domino end stops are not better.  However, to extend that implying that the Product Managers at Festool don't care is way past reasonable.      Virtually every piece of evidence that I've seen indicates that they care very much - far more than almost any other company I can think of.  So please...  Raise all the issues you want, but don't beat on the Festool people.  It's neither fair nor reasonable.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Dixon Peer]

Well, I agree with Dan's post regarding the people at Festo; they care very much and it's obvious in their quality tools.

I think the problem may lie in the way the machine works, not the cross stops.  The cross stops are a simple attachment made of good quality material, and I believe them to be accurate.  But, the way the machine works, oscillating the tooling in fast cycles from side to side must be very difficult to fine tune to the tenth of a millimeter, don't you think? 

Anyway, kudos to Festo for their fine tools.

 

[Programmergeek]

I have also run into this problem, it really mucked up some of my work before I realized what was going on.  Anyhow I will not use them anymore, drawing a line like I use to do with my bisket joiner works better and really is just as fast.  Wonder if they made them with metal and they where stiffer if they would work better.  I really think they should recall these or at the very least advertise them different I feel they where misrepresented.  But then again the Domino is a first generation tool and bound to have some issues.  I am surprised how few issues festools have in general for the amount of innovation.