Domino vs Biscuit Joiner

[Locks14]

I have both Dominos. I still use the biscuit jointer more than the Dominos. Both Dominos & biscuit jointers play very important rolls in my work.

I believe it has been stated here before. If Festool sold a biscuit jointer, it would also be a have to have, can't do with out tool.

Exactly! If it isn't Festool, it isn't worthy, syndrome. People get obsessed with buying the "green & black", obsessed with new Systainers they can neatly stack on top of each other and admire. Obsessed with the plug it cords and somehow think any other tool outside the "system" is simply inferior.

As a side note, I am an enthusiastic amateur photographer. I particularly like Fuji's X range of cameras.

Previously the cameras had what some considered slow autofocus, a poor flash offering and not enough magapixels. If anyone suggested these were shortcomings they would be shot down by fanboi's who stated such things were not necessary because the spirit of the X range of cameras was retro, slow, methodical photography, not cutting edge technology.

A few weeks ago a brand new camera was introduced that addressed a lot of the short-comings. Now, guess what? Everyone wants this new camera and all the new things it offers.

 

[grbmds]

Actually, in the case of the Domino, it clearly does produce better results for me than either a biscuit joiner (which I also have), and manually done mortise and tenon joints (which I have tools and jigs to do also. For me, the Domino produces a strong and more accurate joint than any other tool I've used (unless I'm doing dovetails on a drawer). I have other brand tools and, for some things, they are better. I wouldn't buy a Festool biscuit joiner as I see no need to use biscuits when the Domino exists.

 

[Holmz]

Actually, in the case of the Domino, it clearly does produce better results for me than either a biscuit joiner (which I also have), and manually done mortise and tenon joints (which I have tools and jigs to do also. For me, the Domino produces a strong and more accurate joint than any other tool I've used (unless I'm doing dovetails on a drawer). I have other brand tools and, for some things, they are better. I wouldn't buy a Festool biscuit joiner as I see no need to use biscuits when the Domino exists.

And....?
I can design tests that would favour any tool.
"It clearly does better for me", is both subjective and says nothing about what that is.
But it is a lovely testimonial.
I like my Domino as well.

However I did not get a Zeta because the Domino is "better", I got it because it does different joints. It is not being critical to point out that a Domino does not do Biscuits, however there is a critical difference between when/where a biscuit is used than where a Domino is used.

Personally I have not done a lot of biscuits, nor do I generally like the stuff that biscuits are used for. However if one is making those things, then "When in Rome".

 

[GhostFist]

I don't think it should be a vs case anyway. Yes there is crossover in applications but each are better suited to different joints. Me, I have a domino,  dd40, and a zeta. I'm going to buy a standard biscuit blade for the zeta as well. it's almost like arguing which atomic bomb will kill you better. they're all going to kill you

 

[Holmz]

I don't think it should be a vs case anyway. Yes there is crossover in applications but each are better suited to different joints. Me, I have a domino,  dd40, and a zeta. I'm going to buy a standard biscuit blade for the zeta as well. it's almost like arguing which atomic bomb will kill you better. they're all going to kill you

Please "lemme know" what the blade number is and I need to know how to stop the sidestep flick on the Zeta...

Cheers

 

[GhostFist]

You just spin the zeta knob to off and dinkle about with the standard biscuit gauge.  Blade is the same as what's on the classic x or top 21. Same mounting

 

[ear3]

More than seventh months since I started this thread, and I still haven't touched my biscuit joiner, except to move it out of the way to get to other things.  [blink]

 

[grbmds]

In the process of trying to further respond, I guess I removed my old post (guess kind of inept on the posting side), but I thought I'd be more specific since results were referenced in other posts. With the Domino, I have done loose tenon joints in the last piece I made (a sort of Asian/Arts and Crafts style nightstand) that replaced all standard mortise and tenon joints, plunged slots into the face of the bottom shelf which permitted the shelf to appear as if "floating", edge glued boards for the top and shelf with Dominos. In short, all joints in the piece were Domino loose tenon joints. I was able to place them perfectly. They were tight fitting and strong joints. I could not have gotten the same level of quality from any other methods of joinery with the ease with which I did the work. Nor, do I believe, the results would have been as precise and accurate with other methods. Can't prove that but, for me, the satisfaction I got from being able to this work better than I had in the past is what counts. To speak to the original question, for me the Domino is clearly the superior tool for this job. I realize that, for others, the process, methods, and tools they use may not be the same and their results might be the same or better than mine. I attached 2 pictures for no other reason than to provide a visual of what I'm talking about.

 

[justinh]

I use a biscuit joiner a lot more than my Domino.  Same reasons as the others, speed and cost of consumables.  One of my primary uses is to reinforce mitered casing.  A 3 1/2" casing takes one #20 biscuit and one slot.  The same casing takes 2 Domino's and 2 mortises.  That adds up if you track the costs.  Last year I went through 1 case of Domino's and 4 cases of biscuits.

Understand that it probably takes a little longer to do the Dominos but am not sure why it would take 2 Dominos. A single Domino cut from the same face, using the paddle or pin stops on the Domino fence from the long side of the miter joint should hold. (Although I suppose I'm thinking the stock is 3/4" and not possibly 1/2", which trim many times is. I was amazed at how strong 1 Domino in a miter joint was and how well and tight the miter went together (assuming the narrowest Domino setting is used).

On a 3 1/2" casing miter one biscuit fills up the majority of the space where you can fit a biscuit or Domino with one cut.  To add reinforcement equivalent to that you would need to use at least two Dominos.  If the casing is larger than 3 1/2" and will support it I can switch to an S-6 plate instead of adding more biscuits. The same holds true in pilaster style casing where plinth meets casing leg and casing leg meets head.  For something like a 3 3/4" plinth meeting a 3 1/2" casing one Domino isn't enough to keep the casing from possibly twisting when it gets nailed off.  One biscuit will. 

For even more speed when doing higher volume the Lamello Dosical bottle is really nice.  One plunge of the bottle fills a slot with exactly the right amount of glue.  Save time with brushes spreading and still not being 100% sure you've spread the right amount.

Both the Domino and my biscuit machines see a lot of use.  When running trim the biscuit machines get more playing time.  If I built more furniture the reverse might be true.

 

[GhostFist]

Let's just add that traditional joinery is the strongest and call it a day

 

[grbmds]

Let's just add that traditional joinery is the strongest and call it a day

Is that true? I would like to see a comparison between the Domino (or even a loose tenon joint) against a standard mortise and tenon joint where the glue is spread in the same way on the tenon and mortise. It would be educational. Please supply the reference.

 

[Holmz]

As the Domino length goes to zero the strength is only in the glue joint on the faces.

And/or you can think of the mortice side being the same between Domino and traditional.
The other side is difficult to fail in solid wood, but in the Domino side there is another chance for that side to fail.

 

[nclemmons]

I got rid of my biscuit joiner. 

When I need to use biscuits, for more forgiving alignment, I just use a slot cutter in a router and that gives me the option with no sunk cost and no storage space being taken up for a biscuit joiner I never used after the Domino.

I have not missed it!

 

[Holmz]

The force is strong.

 

[Kev]

This thread is going a bit wonky!

On biscuit joiners .. having Dominos in the stable and the option to route or dowel a joint I'd never bother with a traditional biscuit. I would (will) buy a Lamello for Clamex biscuit size fastening though.

 

[GhostFist]

Let's just add that traditional joinery is the strongest and call it a day

Is that true? I would like to see a comparison between the Domino (or even a loose tenon joint) against a standard mortise and tenon joint where the glue is spread in the same way on the tenon and mortise. It would be educational. Please supply the reference.

compare a domino joint to a dovetail joint of any fashion. Or haunched mortise and tennons or draw bored mortise and tennons.

 

[grbmds]

Let's just add that traditional joinery is the strongest and call it a day

Is that true? I would like to see a comparison between the Domino (or even a loose tenon joint) against a standard mortise and tenon joint where the glue is spread in the same way on the tenon and mortise. It would be educational. Please supply the reference.

compare a domino joint to a dovetail joint of any fashion. Or haunched mortise and tennons or draw bored mortise and tennons.

Just thought you might have a resource for a comparison that has been made. A dovetail joint isn't a good comparison since a mortise/tenon or Domino isn't used for the same thing generally. Really the comparison is between a standard mortise and tenon and a loose tenon (or Domino) joint since they are the same joint and used for mostly the same purpose. Not really that important to me as, for what I do, the Domino is a great, solid, and easy to make joint.

 

[GhostFist]

Domino's aren't used in corner joinery? The domino earns it's keep by ease of setup and speed, but as far as strength goes traditional joinery is king. Obviously you're not going to be cutting fancy joints in ply, particle board or mdf, that's where the joining machines get used.

 

[RussellS]

compare a domino joint to a dovetail joint of any fashion. Or haunched mortise and tennons or draw bored mortise and tennons.

These are incorrect comparisons.  Your comparisons are comparing chemical connections to mechanical connections.  A Domino joint uses glue to form a chemical connection between the wood.  A dovetail joint uses the angles of the joint to form a mechanical connection.  Dovetail joints get their strength from the interplay of the tails and pins.  Glue helps but could be left out completely.  Haunched mortise and tenon is comparable to a Domino because both rely exclusively on glue to hold the joint together.  A haunched mortise and tenon has no mechanical connection.  Its just a different shape of tenon, little more glue surface.  A draw bored mortise and tenon is a mechanical connection because the pin pulls the tenon into the mortise and prevents it from pulling out.  Its similar to using a bolt to hold two overlapping pieces of steel together.

You want a comparison between the Domino, a traditional mortise and tenon where the tenon is part of the wood, and maybe a traditional slip tenon where the slip tenon is made from the same wood as the other parts being glued.  I and everyone else hopes someone does a test like this.  Unfortunately a test like this will not be able to determine the most important factor.  How does the joint survive with age, years?  Ultimate breaking strength isn't much concern to me.  How many pounds or tons of force is required to break a joint is of no concern to me.  Whether it survives 500 pounds of force, or 1000 pounds, or more.  So what.  None of the furniture I build ever experiences such abuse.  Can a joint survive being hit with a 32 pound sledge hammer?  Or is it so weak that a mere 16 pound sledge hammer will break it?

 

[GhostFist]

They're  perfectly fine comparisons as my statement was traditional joinery is stronger and it is.  The reason it was brought up is because there are a lot of claims that domino joints are stronger than standard biscuit joints and in some cases that may be true, but it doesn't make either method obsolete as they both have instances where one is better than the other.
Traditional joinery is not always practical in a modern professional shop and is almost pointless in modern sheet goods with some exceptions. Again you're talking to someone who owns and uses 3 different joining machines in a professional environment including a domino.  The comparison of traditional joinery to any of these machines was somewhat anecdotal