Drop Down Hinge for Inset Door?

[4nthony]

I'm working on a wall hanging credenza that will have a drop down inset door on one of the cubbies. The inset door will be similar to the door on this console.

With an overlay door, it makes sense in that it's all flush.

For an inset door, how is the door hinged at the bottom? Are there special hinges with an offset? I'm guessing you could add a panel at the bottom to make it flush, but I'm curious if there's a hinge designed to accommodate the offset. The pictures on the website don't show the inside of the cabinet to tell how the door is hinged.

I looked through the Blum catalog but only saw riser hinges. I didn't have any luck finding a drop down hinge.

Can someone point me towards a correct hinge? Preferably something adjustable [cool]

Thanks!

 

[4nthony]

Hmmm, now that I think about it....I could probably use the same hinge I'm using for the side opening doors. As long as I install struts, they should work well together (I think?).

Is there something better?

 

[tjbnwi]

You can use the Blums with a 19mm plate.

For your application I’d use knife hinges or pivot pins on the sides. This will allow you to add a deck to the cabinet making the two on plane.

Tom

 

[Packard]

A major consideration with drop down doors is over-travel of the hinge.  For that reason it is necessary to attach struts to the door and the box.

Most of these, like the ones shown in the attached images in the original post, allow for two small screws typically just 5/8” long to attach to the face of the door.

If the door is likely to be used as a work surface, those screws (and the hinges) can potentially fail. If you find hardware that allows edge mount, then longer screws can be used, plus it changes the stress from tensile to shear.  Shear is going to be much stronger.

If the box is going to be near or above eye level, then consider lift up instead of drop down.  Lift up is a vastly easier installation.

 

[4nthony]

The door will basically be a drawer front that, because of electrical outlets and media cables that enter through the back, can't actually be a drawer. It's about 8" tall and 28" wide. It won't be a work surface and is well below eye level.

As usual, I was most likely overthinking this.

I've never mounted a drop down door before but it's still a door, just mounted in a different orientation than I'm used to. The hinges I have for the other inset doors will be fine -- if I had straight hinges, the 19mm plate as mentioned would work -- and I'll just pick up a simple strut to restrict the travel of the door.

 

[guybo]

Hi, we used these hinges,we built the box and overlaid it  for the appearance of being inset. kinda like what they did in blu dothttps://www.salice.com/us/en/products/lift-systems-and-flap-doors/drop-down-door-system/pacta-with-smove-system-for-single-doors

 

[Packard]

Blum makes highly adjustable lift up hinges and struts.  If a lift door would work, then that is an option.

Hafele makes sliding door track, another easier option.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The problem with the concealed hinges, like the doors, is that they are fairly intrusive. In an in-set situation, it's even worse. Those 18mm plates are huge.
From a design perspective, the inset door is never going to sit flat/flush with the bottom, as the one from the first picture does.
Could you hold the front edge of the bottom panel back and have the door overlay the bottom, while still being inset everywhere else? You could even run a small groove along the bottom of the door, to give the illusion of the gap? or even cut the bottom of the door off, and glue another piece back on, to break the grain match, improving the illusion?
Best of both worlds, easy hinges and keeps the look.

 

[4nthony]

This is my design for the credenza. All doors and drawers will be inset 36mm

In the design, the center cabinet was going to be two vertical doors with a shelf. I installed the cabinets in the room to get them out of the way while I build the remaining parts. After staring at it for a few days, I decided to change the plan and divide the drawer cubbies into 2 drawers rather than 3. The idea is that 2 deeper drawers will be more useful than 3 shallow drawers. The wife boss also agreed with that assessment.

Green -> doors.
Red -> drawers
Yellow -> drop down door.

With 2 drawers, I am clear of the electrical outlets in the middle cabinet. I can install a drawer on top and a faux drawer front on the bottom.

It's the faux drawer front that will become the drop down door. It doesn't need to sit flush with the bottom or be anything other than a door that matches the drawer above it and drops down to give me access to the plugs & wires it hides.

With the elimination of two doors, I've got extra concealed hinges and plates. I think these hinges will be OK to use on the drop down door. I might not even need to bother with a strut or catch as the door won't open that far into the room.

Hopefully, this better describes what I'm trying to accomplish.

Edit:

This is my test piece for the door inset hinge alignment. I'll have a touch point when mounting the drop down door in this way, but can prevent that with a catch.

 

[wking]

What about Soss hinges?

 

[4nthony]

What about Soss hinges?

I've never used them but if they could work, they would provide a clean aesthetic.

- Do they have any adjustments like concealed hinges for setting gaps, etc?
- Is there a soft close mechanism?

 

[tjbnwi]

I use Sugatsune hinges instead of Soss. The reason is the Soss is not adjustable, the Sugatsune is. There is about 1/8" adjustment all directions.

This is the hinge you need for your application if you choose to use it;

[attachimg=1]

With carefule layout the hinges can be installed using the supplied template and a couple of bits. I use the Shaper Origin to cut the mortices.

[attachimg=2]

This style hinge does not come in self or soft close. You will need struts to support the door. Sugatsune makes the supports also that will have soft close. I don't have the number infront of me right now, hopefully I remeber to get a picture of them tomorrow.

Tom

 

[4nthony]

I use Sugatsune hinges instead of Soss. The reason is the Soss is not adjustable, the Sugatsune is. There is about 1/8" adjustment all directions.

This is the hinge you need for your application if you choose to use it;

[attachimg=1]

With carefule layout the hinges can be installed using the supplied template and a couple of bits. I use the Shaper Origin to cut the mortices.

[attachimg=2]

This style hinge does not come in self or soft close. You will need struts to support the door. Sugatsune makes the supports also that will have soft close. I don't have the number infront of me right now, hopefully I remeber to get a picture of them tomorrow.

Tom

These look good. I also found the hardware template on Shaper Hub.

I was looking through their list of drop-down stays.

Some of their soft-down, short arm stays look like they'd work:
https://www.sugatsune.com/product/soft-down-stay-short-arm-3/

https://www.sugatsune.com/product/adjustable-soft-down-lid-stay-short-arm-left/

 

[tjbnwi]

I use Sugatsune hinges instead of Soss. The reason is the Soss is not adjustable, the Sugatsune is. There is about 1/8" adjustment all directions.

This is the hinge you need for your application if you choose to use it;

[attachimg=1]

With carefule layout the hinges can be installed using the supplied template and a couple of bits. I use the Shaper Origin to cut the mortices.

[attachimg=2]

This style hinge does not come in self or soft close. You will need struts to support the door. Sugatsune makes the supports also that will have soft close. I don't have the number infront of me right now, hopefully I remeber to get a picture of them tomorrow.

Tom

These look good. I also found the hardware template on Shaper Hub.

I was looking through their list of drop-down stays.

Some of their soft-down, short arm stays look like they'd work:
https://www.sugatsune.com/product/soft-down-stay-short-arm-3/

https://www.sugatsune.com/product/adjustable-soft-down-lid-stay-short-arm-left/

Either will work as long as the arm clears height wise. You will need to move the stay back the thickness of the door plus instructed back set on an inset application.

I’m not sure who’s design you found on Hub but check the depth. You have the hinge depth plus the cover thickness.

Tom

 

[eschumac]

Unless this is specific to your design needs I feel like a top pocket door is more user friendly. On a low cabinet the drop door is going to make the person have to lean over to access the contents.

 

[squall_line]

Unless this is specific to your design needs I feel like a top pocket door is more user friendly. On a low cabinet the drop door is going to make the person have to lean over to access the contents.

The drop-down door will also make an attractive diving board for those young enough to be so inclined to imagine their way to using it in such a manner.

 

[4nthony]

Unless this is specific to your design needs I feel like a top pocket door is more user friendly. On a low cabinet the drop door is going to make the person have to lean over to access the contents.

The door will be inset 1-1/2", be roughly 9-1/2" tall, and occupy the bottom half of a ~20" cubby. Referring to the previously posted picture, the location is the yellow arrow pointed on the center cabinet.

This particular cubby will primarily house wires and random electronic devices (Apple TV, etc) that won't need to be accessed frequently.

The drop-down door will also make an attractive diving board for those young enough to be so inclined to imagine their way to using it in such a manner.

Perhaps, but that could also be said for a drawer as well. When pulled out, a drawer filled with stuff is simply an elevated diving board. My toddler has tried to climb her dresser so I'm very aware of it.

 

[4nthony]

I’m not sure who’s design you found on Hub but check the depth. You have the hinge depth plus the cover thickness.

Tom

It was a template from the hardware catalog with 8mm and 16mm depths encoded in the file. I'll be sure to do a few sample cuts before doing it on the actual workpiece.
https://hub.shapertools.com/hardware/63c71d3fe5a6011a0779f620

 

[Packard]

The door will basically be a drawer front that, because of electrical outlets and media cables that enter through the back, can't actually be a drawer. It's about 8" tall and 28" wide. It won't be a work surface and is well below eye level.

As usual, I was most likely overthinking this.

I've never mounted a drop down door before but it's still a door, just mounted in a different orientation than I'm used to. The hinges I have for the other inset doors will be fine -- if I had straight hinges, the 19mm plate as mentioned would work -- and I'll just pick up a simple strut to restrict the travel of the door.

I can think of several workarounds that would allow a drawer.  Cable management ties could be used to keep the cables out of the way of the drawer. 

A false back that leaves about 1-1/2” of clearance at the top might work also. The drawer would have to be a couple smaller in dimension (front to back), but standard drawer slide hardware could be used.  That 1-1/2” clearance would allow you to route the wires as required.

I have used the Sugatsune soft close hinge lid mechanism.  I found the installation instructions to be sketchy and they left out important data (like the minimum depth of the cabinet). I had to cut an oblong clearance slot to accommodate the mechanism. 

That said, it has performed admirably.

I initially tried using an Amazon.com sourced version.  A total failure. It did nothing at all to slow the closing of the lid.

(Mine was a lift top vanity with a MDF lid about 20” x 20”.  It was about 5” deep and I needed an additional inch or so to make it function.  It works fine, but I am not happy about the slot in the cabinet.)