Dust Extractors for professionals...

[mastercabman]

Y splitter? Ridiculous thing. Pointless. Don't get me wrong, it's good you can get one if you've got one of those special set ups that really needs one, but most people won't ever need one. Brice only has one because he's one of those addicts that needs to have every single Festool item, even if he doesn't use it.  [wink]

Talk about ridiculous. How about your statement.  [tongue]
Have you ever set up shop on a jobsite before? If so I think youd understand the need for a splitter.
When pressed for time i hardly think running over to switch hoses from the miter saw to the table saw is in anyones best interest.
With the y splitter you just either and dont have to worry about switching hoses.

Scheesh. Almost as ridiculous as the "small hose" comment.

Ever run up a set of stairs with the hose and power cord dangling? Well let me tell you when using a 3.5" orbital, that small hose blows the bigger hoses out of the water.
[/quote]

So how do you seal the other hose when using the other?Do you have some kind of blast gate?

 

[Electric Trim]

It was great to hear what you guys do in your shop Adams.  That sounds like a super efficient shop.  I LOVE having a pimp set up.  I'm obviously in a different situation since we are probably 95% on site carpenters, but the value you place on accessibility of tools to each person could definitely be duplicated on site.  Nothing gets me fired up quicker than guys standing around because they have to wait on one another to use a tool.  Additionally I can't stand having made the investment in Festool gear that is designed for good dust collection and not utilizing that feature because both extractors are tied up and I don't want to pay someone to wait on the dang vac or spend 60 seconds, 30 times a day, switching tools around on the vacs.

It's amazing what a good set up does to your mental ability to focus without having to deal with inefficient stuff that just discourages you all day and makes you feel like you're wasting time trying to do a good job on dust collection.

Even with the few responses that we've posted, I've become convinced that having 3 and maybe even a 4th extractor on the job would boost our productivity.  [cool]

I did forget to mention that we run our Bosch table saw with a Ridgid vac attached to an i-socket.  The vac and socket are probably about $125 combined and I think this is the best attachment for us because the table saw would load a CT 36 bag twice a day easily.  Only disadvantage is that it doesn't exactly do a million dollar job on the fine dust... [sad]  It's okay though because my lungs filter all the supa fine stuff!  Actually we mount our Jet air filter if we're going to be on the job for at least a week.

 

[mishle]

How many Dust Extractors do you own and utilize during the work day?
One

How many extractors do you wish you owned (okay... don't say 15, we know you want one for every tool)
Three

Do you have "Y" adapters that you use on your extractors?
No

How many people do you normally have working with you and using your Festool gear?
Just Me

I have a shop and I do onsite installs. I work mostly by my self but have help when I need help.

I only have a ct22 right now that I have hooked up to the kapex and shared with a table saw, then I move the dust extractor in the house for clean up and small tool use. I am going to get a ct26 to replace the ct22 and use the 22 in the house for all the smaller tools. And some day I would like a ct36 to stay in the shop with a dust deputy on it.

 

[peter halle]

I will only offer these as things to think about - I am not getting into the debate about worth full / or worth less.

Festool products - especially sanders -  are used in many different industries around the world.  Those of us in North America tend to think of them as woodworking tools.  Most of the time when using a sander the suction / variable control is turned down to adjust the suction and downward pressure on the workpiece.  That means that the dust extractor - which was designed to handle multiple tool types - has excess capacity.  In a sanding situation - it might just be that two workers could be using one extractor for two sanding operations at the same time.  In a production setting a blast gate or blank off plug would not be a requirement unless for some reason the second user was not available for an extended time.

If you peruse any of the European Festool sites you will see that there are many more tool and accessory options due to the fact that Festool has  a major presence in other industries. Their tool offerings transfer to some degree to other countries and their usages.

Food for thought - that's all.

Peter

 

[AlexThePalex]

Y splitter? Ridiculous thing. Pointless. Don't get me wrong, it's good you can get one if you've got one of those special set ups that really needs one, but most people won't ever need one. Brice only has one because he's one of those addicts that needs to have every single Festool item, even if he doesn't use it.  [wink]

Talk about ridiculous. How about your statement.  [tongue]
Have you ever set up shop on a jobsite before? If so I think youd understand the need for a splitter.
When pressed for time i hardly think running over to switch hoses from the miter saw to the table saw is in anyones best interest.
With the y splitter you just either and dont have to worry about switching hoses.

Well, you're obviously one of those people with one of those special set ups I was talking about. Perhaps my wording of 'ridiculous' and 'pointless' is a bit over the top, and using 'rare' would be better. Because I think it is a rare situation where people want to hook up multiple stationary machines on the jobsite to one Festool dust extractor.

In your case, how do you close off the hose you don't use? If you don't close it then you'll be using each of your machines with only half the suction power. I wouldn't want to run my tablesaw with only half the dust extraction needed. If you need to close the other hose, then that's also a handling that consumes some time.

In your case of using two stationary machines with one dust extractor, I would opt to get two hoses instead of the Y splitter, and simply change out the hose at the inlet of the vac. I do that often enough now when I change from the Precisio saw to any other tool (the Presicio comes with a two way y-splitted hose - unusable for other tools). In fact, I did it so much that instead of bringing one vac to the jobsite I now often bring two with me, as stated in my first post. If I were in your situation, I'd change the y-splitter for a second vac all together. As a pro, that would be the best solution. I do it - and I'm not even a pro.

 

[ccarrolladams]

To Electric Trim comment 21,

Before I opened my shop I rented space in shops belonging to friends. Two of them had portable contractor-style 10" table saws. I forget which brands, but each was connected to a shop vac with 50mm hose. My experience with those saws was that the dust escaping would not have been reduced by using a CT22. The problem was the design of the saws. Probably way back dust collection on job sites was not considered as important as Festool users demand these days. Honestly I have not found a portable table saw with dust collection which satisfies me, which is a primary reason I no longer work on client's sites.

Two of my cabinet makers on the side perform installations. They own Kapex. One owns a CT33 the other a CT26. They take pride in running meticulously clean job sites.

Festools with dust collection ports are designed expecting duct extraction to be used. That is part of the cooling process. In the case of the Domino, dust extraction is vital to making correct mortises.

Every cabinet maker who applied for work when word leaked out I was going to start my shop in 2010 was friends with my primary plywood wholesaler and owned some Festools. The ones I hired all share my vision that although space is an overhead expense, it is not as expensive as wasted time, because the building does not cost overtime nor need fringe benefits.

What I want to avoid is pulling a cabinet maker off a task to help me move raw materials. Sure, the new electric forklift cost more than I expected, but it requires hardly any maintenance and does not need flammable fuel, which thrills my insurance agent. My vacuum lifts were not exactly free, but allow one person to safely position sheets up to 5' x12' accurately and rapidly. Normally I start the day with a stack of 4' x 10' 19mm prefinished maple plywood on a rolling cart positioned between the main CNC router and the beam saw. A typical cycle on the CNC is 5-6 minutes while the beam saw only needs 1-2 minutes. So using the vacuum lift I put a sheet on the CNC and start the program. If I were to walk near the machine it would shut off. So while it does its thing I put a sheet on the beam saw. While it positions the sheet under computer control, I do need to organize the parts as their first cuts are done. Then I need to turn them 90 degrees for the cross grain cuts. As those are done I need to put on the stickers and stack them. Usually I can finish 2 sheets on the beam saw while the CNC is doing a single sheet which becomes many parts. Of course a CNC with a 12.5 hp router makes a lot of dust and chips. The blades on the beam saw are 5mm kerf moving through the plywood at 240 feet per minute. When both are going we need 30 hp of dust collection. Every stationary machine has an automatic blast/damper gate which opens as the machine is coming up to speed and closes a few seconds after the machine stops, except the CNC and beam saw. They have circuits which control their blast gates and also instruct the main Dust Collection control computer to bring on additional capacity 10 hp at a time. At some times during the day 4 or 5 of us are using the fixed machines. It is good the plant DC system is outside, as are the air compressors!

I hate to think how many CT22 bags that would be! Yikes.

Compared to the cost of the tools and the raw materials, as well as labor, the extra CT22s are hardly a luxury. For sawing the odd angles the Festool boom is wonderful and I bought it for use in my condo. Over the other work tables the counter-balanced spring-reels I find work better when sanding or routing. Sanders need such low volume of extraction, the 5m hose is no problem at all. Since those hoses dangle when not in use (we just let the reels lift them) the AS hoses stay straight and flexible. Not having to go find another coiled hose saves time and frustration.

All of my crew have their own rolling tool boxes and secure spaces to park those under lock when they are not working.

Because of the forklift and heavy rolling stock carts I cannot install a cork floor like Steve Bace uses in Henderson. We all wear comfy work boots and dream of cork floors!

What I learned long ago is my job is to ensure my crew have what they need to do their jobs, including food and restrooms. All of us want to make fine cabinets. We all want to reduce frustration and wasted time. All of us have an investment in our tools and our training.

 

[ScotF]

I use the "Y" with the Plexiglas guide -- one port on the guide and one on the OF2200 -- works great for chip-free mortising and slots.  I agree that it is not an everyday need, but it is sure nice to have it when you need it.

Scot

 

[Eli]

Similar to Brice, I have two vacs, use onsite and at home. One always on either Kapex or CMS (which does have a 'y' but not what you're talking about). Both CT22's, both with reusable bags. I put on a paper bag if I'm doing something I can't deal with breathing. Otherwise use one vac to clean the other when I cycle bag and filter cleanings.

I've tried ganging tools together on one extractor, for me, it ends up a big tangled mess. I found I'd rather try and plan my work so I can cycle through the tools from big work to small work.  I would like a TS75 and CMS top to suit, it would leave the 55 free. But then I'd also like a CMS router top with a 2200. We all have wants.  [big grin]

 

[Alan m]

hi all/
i have a 22 that i use on site and in shop. when everything else is bought i will get a 26 for site. i can see the point of the y fitting if it had blast gates on it. if you had the chop saw and tablesaw beside each other . why dont ye buy some cheap blast gates and put them on the end of the y . a quick search found these.if these were plastic and lighter they would be perfect.
if i needed this y fitting i would put blast gates on it.

blast gate

 

[Peterm]

Hey all. Like a lot of folks I have two vacs - a CT22 w/longlife bag in the workshop and a Midi w/paper bag for onsite - and I could honestly do with one more; I had two Midis but sold one when I bought my 22 as I didn't think I could justify two for the jobsite, but a lot of outdoor work last year convinced me I could use a Mini sometime soon…

I don't have any 'Y' connectors, and it's usually just me working, sometimes one other helping out. I've joined two 3.5m hoses together to get enough reach from ground floor to first floor - worked OK but was a heavy drag on the tool, hence thinking about another vac.

I've only ever used the Midi and the CTL 22 - of the two I prefer the Midi, personally

 

[mastercabman]

Y splitter? Ridiculous thing. Pointless. Don't get me wrong, it's good you can get one if you've got one of those special set ups that really needs one, but most people won't ever need one. Brice only has one because he's one of those addicts that needs to have every single Festool item, even if he doesn't use it.  [wink]

Talk about ridiculous. How about your statement.  [tongue]
Have you ever set up shop on a jobsite before? If so I think youd understand the need for a splitter.
When pressed for time i hardly think running over to switch hoses from the miter saw to the table saw is in anyones best interest.
With the y splitter you just either and dont have to worry about switching hoses.

Well, you're obviously one of those people with one of those special set ups I was talking about. Perhaps my wording of 'ridiculous' and 'pointless' is a bit over the top, and using 'rare' would be better. Because I think it is a rare situation where people want to hook up multiple stationary machines on the jobsite to one Festool dust extractor.

In your case, how do you close off the hose you don't use? If you don't close it then you'll be using each of your machines with only half the suction power. I wouldn't want to run my tablesaw with only half the dust extraction needed. If you need to close the other hose, then that's also a handling that consumes some time.

In your case of using two stationary machines with one dust extractor, I would opt to get two hoses instead of the Y splitter, and simply change out the hose at the inlet of the vac. I do that often enough now when I change from the Precisio saw to any other tool (the Presicio comes with a two way y-splitted hose - unusable for other tools). In fact, I did it so much that instead of bringing one vac to the jobsite I now often bring two with me, as stated in my first post. If I were in your situation, I'd change the y-splitter for a second vac all together. As a pro, that would be the best solution. I do it - and I'm not even a pro.

Alex the thing you are missing is that the Festool vacs have a 50mm intake. Most power tools only need a 27mm hose. A 27mm hose has an air volume of less than half of the air volume of the 50mm intake.  2 27mm hoses can be connected at the same time without any loss of suction to either.

I have a CT33 in my shop connected to a cyclone. I use it mainly to service my sanding station & I have 2 sanders connected to it at all times.
I can also use it at my main work bench for routing & sawing. The only time I have to block off one of the ports is when I am using a 36mm hose for the TS 75 saw or a router.
I do the same thing when I am on a jobsite. I use a dedicated dust extractor on the Kapex & use a second extractor with a Y for other tools. It just saves a lot of hose swapping.

Something here does not make sense.You are saying that if i hook up 2 hoses and only uses 1,i would have the same suction?
Also i don't think using the 27mm is good enought for table saw or miter saw.

 

[jonny round boy]

hi all/
i have a 22 that i use on site and in shop. when everything else is bought i will get a 26 for site. i can see the point of the y fitting if it had blast gates on it. if you had the chop saw and tablesaw beside each other . why dont ye buy some cheap blast gates and put them on the end of the y . a quick search found these.if these were plastic and lighter they would be perfect.
if i needed this y fitting i would put blast gates on it.

blast gate

Axminster do some 63mm dust extraction, including plastic blast gates. They might work with the Festool Y adaptor, but you might need some additional adaptors/connectors.

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

Hey Alex sorry for my snappiness !  [embarassed]

Yeah in  my case I drie a honda ridgeline and that thing gets packed when I leave to install!
Front seats and everything! I dont think I could fit another vac. Our other vacs stay with the sanding stuff.

My Y splitter is the 50mm festool one and it connects to the vac. and then 2 hoses. One to the tablesaw the other to the miter saw.

 

[Holzhacker]

I have to say I'm very disappointed in some of the responses to this thread. We're talking about vacuum cleaners here, there is no legitimate reason for some of the comments calling other people's abilities or set-ups in question.
ccarrolladams brings up really one of the most important points here. If  you are using non-Festool equipment, the vacuum isn't the item to worry about. Other, especially older, manufacturers tools aren't designed with maximum DC potential. That's were the real problem is.

 

[upscale]

My Y splitter is the 50mm festool one and it connects to the vac. and then 2 hoses. One to the tablesaw the other to the miter saw.

Ok, then the question becomes this: Have you ever found the need to block one of those two vacuum connections off so the other tool has the requisite amount of suction for dust collection? And then that leads to the second question: Have you ever run both those tools at the same time and found the dust collection capabilities insufficient?

Those two questions answered will assist others in determining if they need a plug or some type of blast gate setup for the Y splitter.

 

[Mirko]

I'm curious to see how professionals on the forum that have at least 6 Festool items use their dust extractors. 

Great topic!

We have 2 employees at the moment... Shop is 2,500 sqf

Main collector: Felder RL160 that used Nordfab quick connect 7" ductwork (this stuff is just amazing) All machines have 4" blast gates (Lee Valley self cleaning) with tool triggered dust collector start up (got it from Felder through Ultimate Tools) have not got around to installing the switches yet, its basically a controller that mounts at the RL and each machine (up to 8.) gets a load sensor that you install on the hot lead at the machine or in the load centre right at the breaker.

The sliding panel saw has its own single bag "Jet" brand collector with a remote control on off (Infra-red style) We also use this Collector to clean out the Felder once a month.

Kapex, dedicated CT mini

Paint shop, CT 33 with boom

Work benches, 2 CT 33 vacs

Extra CT mini, for random use, and installs.

All Festool Vacs use the standard hose 27mm- 11'1/2 and the Kapex uses the 36mm hose.

I could use a few more vacs, One more for the paint shop to hook up to the Mirka sander, and a ct33 with the new WCR 1000 work centre.

Mirko

 

[tiralie]

In the shop and on the job site...

How many Dust Extractors do you own and utilize during the work day?

I have two a Bosch Airsweep and an old Sears household vacuum which has seen better days, not really a good solution for cleaning up plaster dust but it works in a pinch.
How many extractors do you wish you owned (okay... don't say 15, we know you want one for every tool)
I have a 26 on the list, and I will probably get a 22 as well for smaller projects.

Do you have "Y" adapters that you use on your extractors?

Yes, I use it with my router table. Works like a charm.

How many people do you normally have working with you and using your Festool gear?
1-3. I limit others use of my Festool equipment. It's Ok if I drop my TS55 on the ground because I was too lazy to put it in the right place but I don't want it to be a habit. I have plenty of Bosch and Millwuakee tools they can use.

What length of hose do you prefer if you've bought extra hose(s) other than what comes standard?

I have a Festool 27mm, a 36mm Bosch anti static hose with the festool fittings, a Rigid 36mm hose, and the standard  36mm hose shipped with the Bosch Airsweep. Except for the Festool 27mm hose, length of hoses are all simalar, but I sometimes would prefer a longer 36mm hose for some tasks.

What is your favorite Dust Extractor model?[/size]

Although, I don't have one yet I think the 26 will be. I think it's a great trade off between power and size particularly for site work.

Tim

BTW, I see that you changed your avatar pic, while the current one is nice, I just wanted to mention that I thought the other one was a really beautiful (family?) picture.

 

[Electric Trim]

It sounds like a few of you guys have half a dozen small dust extractors in your shops. [mad]

And the folks that only have 2 wish we had about 3 or 4.  Obviously large diameter dust collection is out of the question on the job site unless you're trimming a house that takes 6 months or longer to install trim and site built mill work (still waiting for that job to land in my lap... [smile])  I've got a friend that's been trimming over 20 years and he's done 2 houses that took 18 months and just over 2 years just to put the trim in!  I think that was the year he bought his motorcycle...

After hearing especially from you guys with mid size shops, I think I'm going to invest in at least two more vacs which will probably be mini or midi because of the portability factor and I'd rather have a bunch of small ones opposed to a couple biggies.

While I enjoy my large diameter dust collector in the shop, I do like the insta dust collection factor with a good Festool vac because I'm somewhere different all the time.

It's been great hearing about everyone's' experience.  Sounds like a couple of you have had better luck with the Fein extractors.  It's difficult to get on their website and see the different models.

Anyone know of a website that does a good job of displaying their full line of vacs?

Has anyone owned a Mini and Midi?  Curious if anyone prefers one over the other.  I'm sure it boils down to the capacity factor...  Are they considered HEPA vacs?

 

[Brice Burrell]

Has anyone owned a Mini and Midi?  Curious if anyone prefers one over the other.  I'm sure it boils down to the capacity factor...  Are they considered HEPA vacs?

That's a trick question. No they don't come with a HEPA filter, but you probably know you can get one as an accessory.  Later this year the Mini/Midi will come standard with the HEPA and self cleaning bags.

 

[Electric Trim]

It's all in the filter then?